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CHURCH & STATE

Should "Under God" Be Struck From the Pledge of Allegiance?

Atheists challenge phrase they call "daily indoctrination"

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by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

Image: MSNBC

A family of atheists have lost their legal case against the state of Massachusetts to have "under God" permanently removed from the pledge of allegiance. The family's lawyers argued that their children were being discriminated against by being forced to say the phrase every day.
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Do you object to "under God" in the pledge of allegiance?

Comments (view in Forum)

  • ir0nw0lfe
    !
    Ridiculous. We were founded as a Christian country, based on Christian beliefs, morals, and principles. We can believe in tolerance without forsaking our national identity. Perhaps we aspired to live the pledge we recite, "One nation under God" then we could truly be "indivisible."
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    BlackVengence
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    Actually, this country was based on the freedom of religion. The freedom to believe as you see fit to any version of God or gods or lack thereof that you see fit. By including "One nation under God" panders to one specific religious group and not the multicultural society that is America. Therefore it is unconstitutional under the first ammendment and government should not require it in the pledge of allegence and it should be ommited.
  • Janniel
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    You would be better advised to read some history for yourself, instead of making half-baked assertions about the founding of this country.
  • ir0nw0lfe
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    The founding fathers were rather poor frosts then. At least some of then. Washington kneeled in prayer before his battles. Franklin had the Constitutional Congress pause in prayer for guidance during at least one of their writiing sessions. Jefferson cited Psalm 148 as the best description of God and spent his later years deciphering the divinity of Jesus, trying to discover fact from myth. Why bother with any of these if you believe that God set everything up and then just walked away never to intervene again. Deism was a rather fresh concept at the time and appealed to the age of reason that they were living in while trying to form a new nation. Yes, they believed in separation of govt. And religion but this is a minimal infraction at best. By the way, look how closely so many of the Amendments mirror biblical tenets. Yes, the country certainly suffers for saying the pledge of Allegiance.
  • View all 9 replies >
  • HoosierFan
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    You actually think that something like this is tearing this country apart? Seriously? There are so many worse things than that that are actually tearing this country apart.
  • marine1
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    H F my point is that it just goes on and on, under god, the pledge,gay marriage. What are they keeping us from really finding out?
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    Thumper
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    The Associated Press has been around for a long time. Since 1865. They helped get Hitler elected back in prewar German and they are at it again in this country. They win no matter who wins because money is their God and money they make. Until they become fair and balanced news organization they will always be referred to as the beast. in my opinion.
  • LogicNeeded
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    I'm against forcing kids to say the pledge every single day, but I digress. "Under God" was added in the pledge in the 50's; it was never on there to begin with, it being a byproduct of the Red Scare. It shouldn't be in the pledge, but if people want to include it, it's up to them.
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    Thumper
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    does it really have any effect on them? well, they might start thinking that their might be a God who created us; for surely we didnt come from pond scum; and that scares the evolutionist real bad; they might loose their grants, have to change their doctrines, and yes, would have to lower themselves to the same level as the next person.
  • LeslieAbi
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    I think kids should say the pledge everyday! So many parents these days don't instill a sense of pride for their country in their kids. It teaches children loyalty and tradition something this country is rapidly losing!
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    dustyoutlaw
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    I totally object to the words under God in the pledge of Allegiance. We taught our kids to say whatever instead. Freedom of religion includes freedom from religion. More people have died in the name of religious wars than Hitler and Stalin ever killed. That should tell you something.
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    Thumper
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    I agree with you dusty that freedom from religion should be as equal as freedom of religion. But the term "under God" does not violate the constitution because it doesnt establish any particular religion as the countries only approved religion.

    I disagree with you about religion being the cause of many wars and people dying. the largest wars of the last 200 years (World War I and II, Civil War, etc.) had no discernable religious causes.

    world war I casualties.... 37,508,686
    world war II casualties... over 50,000,000

    abortion casualties ...every single year .... 46,000,000
  • o
    dustyoutlaw
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    "God" is the name used for Christianity. We allegedly have "freedom of religion" "God" is not the name of the supreme being of any religion other than Christianity and Judaism. I respect your right to believe in whatever supreme being you choose but I do not believe you have the right to impose that on others by indoctrinating children in schools. As for your abortion nonsense I have no further comment.
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    dustyoutlaw
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    I'm not going to argue with you about abortion. I've had up to here with you extremists on both the left and right. I do like surgical abortion and advocate the morning after pill which removes a speck of tissue invisible to the human eye without formation/pulse/heartbeat. That is not a human in my eyes. But neither the left or right will compromise so there is no way to discuss this with either side. You people are extremists and I have no use for extremism.
  • xyz
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    No, the Pledge of Allegiance should keep the words "under God".
    The only thing that keeps this country together is peoples belief in God. Throw God out and our blessings go with Him.
  • Janniel
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    I would submit that religious beliefs, and the sanctimony that results in your assertion, are the biggest threat to this country. Religion should be kept strictly separate from government. The laws that uphold civil behavior are based on wisdom that is not dependent on any particular God.
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    Just_Lisa
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    If others don't like it let them skip it. Nobody's forcing them to say it. Does it burn there eardrums to hear it?

    "UNDER GOD" should be kept.

    I fear of what the world would be without God.
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    One_and_Only
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    Yes, the Treaty of Tripoli Aritcle even states " As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion." which was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams
  • Bobolinsky
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    Maybe not on the "Christian religion" but the US was definitely founded on the morality, ethics and law of Western civilization.(As opposed to Hindu morality, or Buddhist ethics, or Muslim law.
    .
    Whether you judge it good, bad, right, or wrong, denial of Christian influence on our Founding doesn't make it not so.
  • dances-weebles
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    i don't particularly object to it, but even as a christian pastor i can't see the reason for having it in there. it was originally placed there to keep the communists out of the country. the reasoning was that all communists are atheists, and being as such they aren't capable of saying the word 'god' without their tongues cleaving to the roof of their mouths. well, guess what... it didn't work. do i think that a huge scandal should be made of it? no, i don't. do i think that it belongs there? not really. do i think that it makes any difference if it stays? not really.

    i think that someone just needs a tub of laundry to hand wash because if this is all they've got to worry about then they obviously need something to do.
  • docholiday
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    Kids only know what they are taught. If there really was a god, they would be born with the knowledge spiritually linked in their mind, Right? reality is, we have to find ways to slide our religious beliefs into their little brains so they can fear the brainwashing world like everyone else. It makes alot of difference to the children who are sponging the world for knowledge and direction and then get... FEAR... thrown in their face. Why do you think we threaten them with death,fire,fear,suffering and eternal damnation if they don't believe? Because if we didn't, they might try and think on their own ; ) can't have children thinking on their own, that means they wouldn't do as we say!
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    Thumper
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    the bible does say that a child can walk outside and see the complexity of life and say there must be a God; because no child in their right mind would think a 75 trillion cell human being could have originated by chance from scum water in the vacuum of space. you really have to indoctrinated that ideology into their heads to get them to believe that.

    I have never heard anyone threaten a child with hell fire, except from the atheist and evolutionist. What is really taught is that all children go to heaven if they die before the age of accountability.

    When children do think on their own, they end up with a national socialist state like German nazi who denied they did any wrong in the holocaust because they had not violated any of their man made laws. After all, if there is no God, anybody's morality is just as good as the next murderers morality.
  • Bobolinsky
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    "Under All"?
    .
    One Nation, under All, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all.
    .
    ...under All.......for all.
    .
    What is the "all" that the Nation is under, and why does it get Liberty and Juctice?
  • Truthinesss
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    I think it can be viewed as whatever God you choose to believe in. If you don't believe in God, don't say it. They don't force you to say the pledge, at least when I went to school.
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    Lemmy_Stickit
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    The Pledge of Allegiance was written by a Christian Socialist. Just so you know. And the Knights of Columbus lobbied to have "One nation, under god" added during the height of tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union, in the early 1950's. Prior to World War II, the right hand was extended outward, in the exact same fashion as the Nazi salute. After that is when it became customary to place the hand on the heart. As far as America being a "christian nation." Yeah... No. We are as much a christian nation as standing in the garage makes you a car. It's just complete BS. Regardless of what any modern, uneducated "christian" would like to tell you. We are NOT a christian nation. We are a secular nation, not ruled by the laws of god but, ruled by the laws of man. Period. End of story.
  • Bobolinsky
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    I'm an educated atheist, not a "modern, uneducated 'christian'". And you're wrong.
    .
    Whether you judge it good, bad, right, or wrong Christianity has had a profound influence on the morality, ethics, and law of European and by extension the Founders.
    .
    Denial of it doesn't make it not so. While I am fully aware of all the separation of church and state arguments, the problem here seems to be that you don't.
  • Keyjo
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    I really don't care if "Under God," is in the pledge or not. You don't have to say the pledge if you don't want to, and if you do, you can omit "Under God." Pretty simple.
    On the other hand, our currency says, "In God We Trust." Does this mean that a staunch atheist refuses to use money? Probably not.
    We have become too politically correct and sensitive. Time to dial it back a bit. You can be an atheist and still live among Christians, can't you?
  • FollowTheMoney
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    No. Some laws, governing our core values ( lying, cheating, stealing, murder, etc...), must come a higher power. So as not to be challenged by the morally bankrupt legal industry.
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    Stratton
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    Children in Massachusetts are not forced to say the Pledge of Allegiance. Atheists have been griping about this for decades and have yet to produce evidence of one child who was forced to say it. I attended public schools in Massachusetts and remember plenty of students who didn't say it and suffered no pressure whatsoever.

    References to "God" and "Creator" are everywhere in our founding documents and even on our money. The simple use of the word "God" does not constitute some sort of religious compulsion. If you don't believe there is a God, then the use of the word is simply meaningless and shouldn't bother you at all. But even if it does - the Constitution was designed to keep the government from imposing a particular faith on the people. It wasn't designed to expunge all references to religion from our public instituitons.
  • Jacobhannah18
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    Under God should stay in the pledge of alligance. Our founders put that in our pledge for a reason. If you do not want to say it then simply don't. Simple as that. Just don't take it away from the people that want to.
  • ded
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    OK so they don't have to say it, but children still hear it. But the problem here is much more uncomfortable than most would like to acknowledge. The problem is that children are impressionable, and childhood is formative. And that in this country, many Christians are so idiotic as to think that large areas of modern science are a lie. The uncomfortable fact is that Christians who bring up their children to think that modern science is a lie are guilty of psychological abuse of their own children.
  • ded
    !
    Only a bit. My point is that Christianity in the United States is so intellectually backwards that we have a duty to isolate children from it, similar to the way in which we isolate them from pornographic images. So that means no mentions of "God" in group activities at school.
  • Mr_GO_HERD
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    All you people spazzing over this please STFU. The "under god" wasn't even part of the original pledge. Get over it. This country was founded by a bunch of rich white men who didn't want to pay their taxes then turned around and taxed their own. Religion had nothing to do with it.
  • Bobolinsky
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    Holy crap. Someone is seriously using the quote from the post-structural feminist American History teacher from"Dazed and Confused"?
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    That's hilarious.
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    Stratton
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    The Bill of Rights wasn't part of the original constitution. Neither were the 13th and 14th Amendments, should we get rid of those too?

    Your understanding of American history is a little off. The Founders were not simply tax resisters. They paid taxes to their colonies, but the colonies were required to collect taxes for the Crown without receiving representation in Parliament - much like the District of Columbia today.
    One of the primary motivations for the Constitution was to create a stronger federal government that could put down tax revolts by people who *were* polticially enfranchised and represented.
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