Ron Paul: Secession A 'Worthwhile Question'

Congressman raises issue decided by the Civil War

Proposals for states to secede "raise a lot of worthwhile questions," says Congressman Ron Paul. "Many think the question of secession was settled by our Civil War. On the contrary; the principles of self-governance and voluntary association are at the core of our founding," the retiring Texas Republican writes on his congressional website.

People in all 50 states have started petitions to leave the union in the wake of the presidential election. Paul said secession from the country is not impossible, even though he said he "wouldn't hold my breath on Texas actually seceding."

Paul's views are far out of the mainstream, as he's defending an idea that was decided by the Civil War, which cost more than 650,000 Union and Confederate lives. But in conspiratorial corners of the internet there's a thriving Tenth Amendment culture that suggests - wrongly - that states can voluntarily leave the union.

Paul's not the first officeholder to raise the notion of secession. Texas Gov. Rick Perry came in for a storm of criticism after suggesting at an April 2009 tea party rally that Texas may have to secede from the union. And in Jeb Bush's first, losing, race for Florida governor in 1994, his running mate Tom Feeney made secession an issue. Feeney, then a state representative and later a congressman, proposed that Florida secede from the union if the national debt went over $6 trillion.

Via paul.house.gov.

Is it dangerous for officeholders to give legitimacy to the idea of secession in any way?

[MRMacrum]

Doesn't matter what they do. All it does is make look like the whack job he is.

[Hireman]

How is he at all a whack job?

[MRMacrum]

@Hireman - well, this recent "worthwhile question" is the latest.

A couple of his quotes pertaining to race ........1 -> "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

......... 2-> "Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

He is in agreement with Alex Jones and the Truthers regarding the notion that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

He has a truly unrealistic idea about the free market being able and willing to police itself without government regulations. When asked about the obvious transgressions of industry and big business back during the late 1800s and early 1900s he contended that that was a collusion between government and business. He may have been right about some collusion, but it was the very fact there were no regulations being installed because of the collusion. He is looney tunes brightly packaged for mainstream wannabe libertarians.

[Hireman]

@MRMacrum Your first 2 quotes are under dispute. The guy who claims he thought 9/11 is the same one who says Paul's not racist at all. We have to discount one or the other from the source, so I have to discount the source in reality. Additionally, if you listen to his public statements, he doesn't exactly say what you're claiming. His issue is government has a vested interest in colluding with big business for a myriad of nefarious reasons. We have seen so many things from the free market such as cooking oil recycling to employee wellness that sprang up not because of the government, but in spite of them.

Anyone who has been around as long as he has with as many powerful detractors is bound to have well-publicized 2nd hand rumors about him. I don't KNOW which items are true, and which are false, so I have to go with what I can verify. His videoed statements about economic collapse years before it happened, his documented fears of foreign interventions which later turned into devastating quagmires, and straight-forward answers on difficult questions show him to be anything but a whack job.

[MRMacrum]

@Hireman - They are under dispute? Of course they are. Any Paul fan would dispute them. These were just some quick examples I could come up with. The man does live with both feet firmly planted in this universe. He is an idealist. And that is fine, but his notions would not work in our society, or this World.

[Virginqueen]

@MRMacrum how on earth do you know?

[IraqWarVeteran]

“The founders believed in it, there’s no prohibition in the Constitution against secession" Ron Paul

[1hardcorerepub]

Here here.

[DerivePI]

Secession is a worthwhile question for adults. Not because of our final answer, but because it returns us to the basic principle and source of power. From God to the citizen to the constitutionally limited federal government.

[Cool_voter]

@DerivePI adults yeah, angry bigoted Texan rednecks... No

[tomincali]

hey i like the idea of only those who actually pay taxes to have a say on how they are spent. no one should be able to vote for something they have never put into.

[PNWest]

I'd like the idea of folks with opinions like that to move to another country but neither of us is going to get our wish.

[DARSB]

Unconstitutional, sir. The 24th amendment forbids poll taxes.

[Thegrif]

Excellent, outstanding idea.

[Thegrif]

They don't want those that actually pay taxes to go anywhere, then who is gonna pay for all this free crap. I would love it if we could take the money and go our own way.

[PNWest]

@Thegrif Hey I'm happy with any people who don't want to be Americans to leave. Don't let the door hit ya in the a** on the way out. Of course I have little respect from the conservative types and figure that very few if any of them will really leave. It's just more BS from the crybabies on the right.

[PNWest]

Ron Paul is a peculiar little man. Sometime he has some pretty good ideas but often he's just batsh*t crazy. That being said the country would be better off without some of those low IQ taker red states.

[Zoe2012]

Funny, 69% of folks without a high school diploma in Ohio voted for Obama, blue state. Texas sounds pretty good to me!

[PNWest]

@Zoe2012 Then you should move to TX. I'm sure that they would love you.

[John_Matrix]

Oh yeah, real batshit crazy. If keeping the government at a minimal size and making people actually exercise personal responsibility and govern themselves is a crazy idea then I guess you can call me crazy as well.

[PNWest]

@John_Matrix ".... I guess you can call me crazy as well. " I'm OK with that.

[Zoe2012]

@PNWest

"I guess you can call me crazy as well. " I'm OK with that."

What an attitude change!

[Zazziness]

Oh, holy smokes. Go honorably into history, Mr. Paul. Don't start this, please.

[MRMacrum]

Actually I hope he takes up the standard of the loony secessionist crowd. Let folks see just how dangerously odd the man is.

[Zazziness]

I can say I'm very relieved he didn't gain the presidency.

[FollowTheMoney]

Ron can say anything he wants now, he's retiring.

[DARSB]

Isn't it odd that a self-described "constitutionalist" exhibits such astonishing ignorance of constitutional law. Texas v Smith, Dr. Paul.

[Rocker]

Yo DARSB - question: Along the lines of secession... If a state can't secede, could an individual give up their US Citizenship which would amount to a 'personal secession' and remain in the US.?? Would one then have to designate a country they are a citizen of?? How many of the benefits or taxation would they be entitled to??
Now I don't care one way or the other - I'm just kicking a debate topic around some.

[CCR]

You do understand that this country was founded on secession? Right? The 13 colonies seceded from Great Britain and formed their own country. Is that not what the CSA did in 1860? "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." How is secession unconstitutional?

[DARSB]

@Rocker Truth to tell, wealthy Americans have been renouncing their American citizenship to avoid taxes in increasing numbers - which is strange since the Bush tax cuts have favored them for over a decade.

Staying in the US might be a problem for them, however, since they might not have been granted citizenship in another country, which would leave them without either a passport or legal status in the USA. Where you'd deport a formerly American person is a neat question, isn't it? http://goo.gl/3xm1X

[Rocker]

@DARSB - In the theoretical case, renouncement or secession, one would give up that which has been paid into SSI because that is a federal program. Also, continued residence would amount to an illegal immigrant without a deportation status. Without sovereign recognition after secession then, a state would essentially become immigrants under the same conditions. Is that supposition in the ballpark?

[DARSB]

@CCR Hmm... Sister Mary Agony taught us the American Revolution was a rebellion, not a secession, involving as it did military force and the deaths of many many people on both sides. The CSA committed rebellion, not secession, hence the Civil War.

Secession requires a formal method, one that doesn't exist in the Constitution, and in fact wasn't included in the earlier Articles of Confederation. Furthermore, we have over a century of legal precedent denying secession, starting with Texas v Smith in which Chief Justice Salmon Chase wrote a beautiful majority decision.

[Zoe2012]

No, it is good, offers some hope!

[Dan_Tien]

What does Ron Paul care? He is not worried about getting re-elected. Every state that has a population of 25,000 where everyone signed the petition to secede from the Union, please raise your hand.

[Xenocracy]

So If States Can Do It, Why Can’t The People Of The United States Be Allowed To Become Sovereign Citizens?

[jessejaymes]

Enter the looney tune side of Ron Paul.

[InjusticeSucks]

No matter what the senile Wacko says its not going to make the GOP look any better.

[Zoe2012]

Like the democrats and Obama. 69% of people without a high school diploma voted for Obama in Ohio... In Wood County Ohio, more people voted for Obama, than there are residents???? Is this something you are proud of, dumb and deceit? Democrats aka party of misfits! The sad thing is that we have too many dumb, dishonest, entitlement people in this country with mental issues!

[commonsense51]

What is dangerous and Americans should be terrified is when we lose control of our nation to those who pay no taxes. Taxation without representation, that is what just happened in our last election. The vast majority of tax payers voted for Romney, but Obama was elected by the huge welfare base that pays no taxes. The 20% far left Liberal vote meant nothing, they always vote for the Democrat. It was the very people that Obama added to the welfare roles with his failed policies that elected him. When a nation is run by those who have their hands out for charity, that nation is on the path to bankruptcy because they will only vote for the people who pander to them and do not care about the good of our nation.

[RoyFloyd]

"Lose control of out nation to those who pay no taxes"??? Perhaps you're talking about General Electric and Boeing, to name a couple. They collect billions from Uncle Sugar, spend lots on lobbyists, purchase the favors of congress wholesale--- but pay nothing. Are those the welfare cheats and charity cases that cause your outrage?

[grapesofwrath]

Is that right? 4.6 million Americans are on welfare. I bet 1/2 voted. So, what about the other 60,000,000 votes for Obama? Freeloaders? How about those non-tax paying seniors? Oh, they voted for Romney. I suppose they don't get a vote either.

Know what you're talking about before you actually try to make a point.

[commonsense51]

@RoyFloyd Can you see how lost and brainwashed you are? What do those companies that you mentioned do? They create jobs and a livelihood for millions of people. There is absolutely nothing more valuable to a people than a job to raise a family and I have all the respect in the world for those who take all the risk, and start businesses. Do you have a clue how much revenue those companies bring into Uncle Sam so that Uncle Sam can give it away to welfare people? Tell me, what do those millions of welfare folks do for our nation? Oh that's right, they take from it decade after decade after decade. Do welfare people ever give it back when they get on their feet? NO! You have got your priorities completely screwed up. But that's the Socialist Democrat mentality. hate the rich because Government wants to control the people. They want no one to have power but them.

[commonsense51]

@grapesofwrath When I say those who pay no taxes, I'm not just talking about welfare people. Do you have a clue that 50% of Americans pay no Federal taxes? Get your facts straight before you rant.

[grapesofwrath]

@commonsense51

Actually, those two companies have 440,000 employees combined- worldwide. Millions? Are you in a making up stuff mood? I agree, they make jobs- but they should also pay taxes, dontcha think?

[Kellso]

The man knows what he is saying!!!!!!! Why try to hide the fact!

[SavageMazx]

The idea is no more dangerous than the idea of redistribution of my wealth......both will end badly

[kyrebel]

The state government would have to vote at the state capitals. The state would have to look if they could survive. What if Kentucky voted secession? Most people are think," Kentucky,lol, big deal.". Well fort Knox is in Kentucky and that's where the gold is. The gold that makes the USA money worth anything. Kentucky would say any property previously owned by the USA that is currently in the state now belongs to the state.

[PNWest]

No Kentucky would have to give back that which belongs to the United States and compensate the US for property that could not be removed. It would also have to pay it's share of the national debt that was acquired while it was part of the country.

[kyrebel]

The US could ask for compensation and for there property but as a new established country, it would be up to the new government. None of states could survive on there own, they would have to join together. When the states broke away before they realized this and joined to make the confederacy. Truthfully like fort sumter a war would star when the US attacked fort Knox to get there gold back. Or the new state government tried to take possession of the gold.

[PNWest]

@kyrebel I suspect that if the US were to let KY go it would do more than ask for Ft. Know back. Even the dolts on the right ought to realize what happened to those states that left without permission back in the 1860's.

[kyrebel]

@PNWest yeah history shows farms where burned, plantations burned, women and children murdered by the invading northern army.

[PNWest]

@kyrebel All the more reason to avoid such hostilities in the future.

[Jack-Black]

I am sure that lots of people were against us leaving the Untited Kingdom about 230 years ago.
Not sure if it is a good idea but there is no reason not to discuss it. We as a nation are a sinking ship, jump off before it goes completely under water.

[kyrebel]

Those people back then that didn't want to go against the crown. They where told to go to Canada until the uprising was stopped.

[LibtardsVacate]

Sometimes it seems it isnt at all possible considering the division that is being instilled by both liberal media and Obama playing the race card and damning certain classes according to their income... and Black Panther members standing at polls for 2 elections straight. You cant fight division with division.

[SmedleyButler]

Anonymous hacked Dr. Paul's campaign manager's email. He sabotaged his campaign. I'm sure Jesse Benton was payed handsomely by agents of the Rothchilds. Zionist Christians and Jews hate Dr.Paul. the report is on the youtube page. There will be a second revolution. Communists and corporate fascists will be hung. I have news for for you, the military is in a constant state of deployment, because the Gubmint is afraid they will not allow the elites to take us over. The police are waking up too. There is no teeth in their policies without government sponsored terrorism. All it takes is one general to call for the arrest of our politicians on the ground of treason. Why do you think they keep firing and retiring them?
http://politix.topix.com/stmt/M3SP67FGK0SQR4C...

[SmedleyButler]

sorry, "paid"

[Romney2012]

I think it makes sense to secede from this country! You might like it now, but you won't by 2016!