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CHURCH & STATE

Oklahoma Teen Sentenced to 10 Years of Church Attendance

Judge admits the punishment is on shaky legal ground

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by Dain Fitzgerald

Staff Writer t +

Image: stainedglass.tribe.net

An Oklahoma teenager who killed his friend while driving drunk will be avoiding any time in the big house - but only because he's being sent to the lord's house instead.

17-year-old Tyler Alred has been sentenced to ten years of church service for manslaughter after he crashed his pickup truck and killed his passenger, reports Salt Lake City's KSL news. And while Judge Mike Norman admits that the punishment won't hold up legally if challenged, he's confident neither side in the case will appeal.

Not surprisingly, the American Civil Liberties Union is calling Norman's church attendance requirement a "clear violation of the First Amendment." But the judge is undeterred.

"There are a lot of people who say I can't do what I did," stated Norman, who suggested his sentence was fitting for a teen who committed a reckless, but not malicious crime. "Only time will tell if we've saved Tyler Alred's life."

Via KSL News and ABC.
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Would you rather be forced to attend church once a week for a decade, or spend a shorter amount of time in prison?

123 Comments (view in Forum)

  • Sonny
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    The only problem is...that when you are a "defendant" and the Judge clearly is in charge....And has the power to do some serious damage to your freedom & liberty...then you are not really "free to agree"....I understand what you are saying...but when you are looking at prison time, versus going to church (And we don't know what this kids religious preferences are)----Its kinda hard to say..that "all parties agreed"...There is some degree or level of "duress". But at least he can avoid prison.
  • Sonny
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    @Fishbone345 I'm sure the victims family surely hates the sentence. And I can understand that. That's yet one more reason that the judge should have stuck to the legal remedies at had...And, well, jail time.
  • Fishbone345
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    @Sonny Yah, someones family member is dead because of some dumba55 and his reckless choices. Sure, Church is a befitting punishment.
    I'm all for rehabilitation, but surely the crime and time should be somewhat similar.
  • WilliamWallace
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    @Fishbone345 I am completely for the death penalty and I think we should use it more.

    I said ALL parties agree. If they don't the ruling should be overturned.

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  • DARSB
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    I get the First Amendment argument but it seems to me the Equal Protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment may apply, too. Would this judge have offered an atheist or even a non-Christian the same choice?
  • Fishbone345
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    "Would this judge have offered an atheist or even a non-Christian the same choice?"
    Not a chance in hell. Or... where ever you believe sucks the most in the whole world? Nebraska?
  • hwyangel
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    @Fishbone345
    I have no doubt that if your parents and the victims parents agreed to it that an atheist or non believer could get the same sentence.
  • Fishbone345
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    @hwyangel My parents? I didn't drink, then get into a car and murder someone. I'm not guilty, my parents aren't part of the issue at all.
    See, I know better than to be an inconsiderate, arrogant murderer.
  • hwyangel
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    @Fishbone345

    I have never drank and drove, but I have done a piece or two of stupid when I young, so I can understand how easy it is for kids to find trouble.

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  • Dan_Tien
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    A Mormon judge in a Mormon state sentences a good Mormon boy to 10 years attendance at the Mormon church that he would probably be attending anyway for negligently killing a man. Maybe he will get time off for good behavior while on his mission. Clear violation of the 1st Amendment to the Constitution and probably favoritism shown to a kid from his ward as well.
  • Fishbone345
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    @SavageMazx Well a good percentage of men attending church regularly would disagree with that statement, but then you are likely arguing the definition of "Good Mormon Boy" and not the bitter reality that they don't exist.
    Its more like, "Most the Good Mormon Boys in this state are hypocrites, and drink just as much as others"
  • Fishbone345
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    "probably favoritism shown to a kid from his ward as well."
    Damn right. I highly doubt that given the same circumstances this sentence would be given to a minority in Salt Lake City. In fact, I'd wager my life on it.

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  • PoliticalSpice
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    In a criminal case the only parties are the defendant and prosecutor. What about the family and loved ones of the victim? What about the next victim of some kid who thinks that the worse thing that can happen if he drives drunk is he gets sent to church. This is crazy, how is this type of thing much different then moving toward Sharia law? I mean the crime here is not littering someone has died.
  • PNWest
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    @Lorth Looks like the kid caught a very lucky break. I hope that he is able to make something of his life. I'm not sure I would be as forgiving at his victim's parents.
  • Lorth
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    @PNWest - It would be tough. I can see myself forgiving my kid's best friend though. Having done some stupid crap when I was a kid and realizing that the logical portion of the brain doesn't fully develop till they're in their early twenties helps me to have a little compassion for juveniles though. This whole treating children like adults bothers me.
  • PNWest
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    @Lorth I'd like to think that way too but I'm pretty sure I would blame the survivor. The victim's parents seem to be doing well with what must have been a devastating loss. Lord knows we all do enough stupid stuff growing up.
  • MaxPain
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    @Souljah Na Moron is what it was intended to say I could have used Mormon moron but i don't know that he is a Mormon but we do know he is a moron with a decision like that.
  • Jack-Black
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    Ok. Give the littler killer a choice.Go to church for 10 years or go to prision and go to church in the prision shower for 10 years. His choice. Tell the ACLU to go pluck themselves.
  • Neo_NtheMatrix
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    This is a liberal that got convicted of manslaughter, right? How does the judge know that the liberal will indeed attend church? I think our country is sliding off a moral cliff and judges like this one are helping to push us over that cliff. The rule of law has been left unenforced the last four years. These kind of radical judgments leave our moral fabric badly torn. The convict should be sent to jail and the judge should be relieved of his duties.

    Btw, Mike Norman, I'm disgusted that you would do something that would put me on the side of the wicked ACLU. They are a disgusting organization, but they are right for once, in this instance.
  • MRMacrum
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    "This is a liberal that got convicted of manslaughter, right?"

    What gives the idea he is a liberal? This happened in Utah. Liberals are not that common.

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  • Sharpshooter
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    The real question is whether a sentence is handed down to punish or to rehabilitate. To criticize the decision without an understanding of the whole story makes no sense. I can easily think up as many reasons why the sentence is right as I can for it being wrong. A 17 year old boy having accidentally killed someone most likely has a big load to bear already; church might save his life and result in a productive adult, what would be gained by prison. Of course, the case is in Utah and Mormons all live in Utah and Mitt Romney is a Mormon and Axelshaft's boy won the election so some of you know all you need to know to be a self anointed expert on the matter.
  • Fishbone345
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    Heh. Accidentally. As in "I accidentally drank until inebriated, and accidentally fell into my car that just happened to start up and drive with me in it"
    Forget accountability huh?
    Pretty sure that you'd either need to be extremely removed from society, or extremely stupid not to know what happens when you combine drinking and driving.
  • FollowTheMoney
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    Was or is the kid a little dirt bag or a good kid. It matters as it should. Give the good kid a chance to redeem him self. Throw the little dirt bag in prison. The judge may know the kid and his character.
  • Sharpshooter
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    @Fishbone345 I don't disagree with accountability and DUI being a choice. We're talking about a 17 year old, not an excuse but youth does bring with it foolishness; there are plenty of folks here over 17 that demonstrate foolishness on a regular basis. The question is does this accident result in one or two ruined lives. Optimally we would like to see none, but that's not on the menu. Again, we don't have all the facts and I'm not willing to pass judgement...
  • mtkopf
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    @FollowTheMoney usually there is a presentencing report prepared by a probation officer. Not only does p.o. interview the offender but also teachers, friends, family, employer, etc. P.O. then prepares report for the judge giving him/her insight as to whether offender is a candidate for rehabilitation or incarceration. Most likely this is a case of a good kid who made one horrific mistake.

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  • Lorth
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    If you actually read the story - it isn't a Utah kid and judge. This happened in Oklahoma. The guy killed was the 17 year old's best friend. The driver wasn't "legally intoxicated" as he was below the legal limit. The parents of the deceased stood up for the boy and are relieved at the sentence. It's a deferred sentence that can be revoked if the kid screws up or commits any criminal acts. Seems to me a sad situation that the judge tried to take what was best for everyone involved. And yeah, the kid already goes to church so the church portion of his sentence isn't a hardship for him - I imagine he has already punished himself some and I doubt that will end anytime soon.
  • PolitixMary K
    Mary Noble, Senior Editor
    !
    Hey Lorth - thanks a lot for pointing all that out. I've fixed the errors you mentioned. We really appreciate corrections and will always try to fix asap. You can get our attention even faster by emailing us at pxeditors@topix.com - we'd love to hear from you.

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  • jessejaymes
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    First of all that Judge should be barred from the bench. An underage teen killing someone is not to be given a hand slap and turned loose on society again with no real punishment. Second of all this is clearly unconstitutional. Third, is this what the right wing "Christians" do when a white boy kills someone drunk yet they would have executed a black for the same crime in Utah.
  • Keyjo
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    Well, I for one would chose church over prison. Perhaps the victim's family are forgiving and concur. I'm pretty sure the kid has been trouble free prior. Ruining a second life would serve no purpose. I see the judge's reasoning. The boy made a tragic mistake, but absent of intentional malice.
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  • twinertia
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    I'd take the prison time, because it's thoroughly honest from any angle. I'd already have problems with alcohol, and there'd be little use in adding in the delusion of a "higher power" to those problems.
  • lawnmowrman
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    One of my closest friends is in his nineteenth year of a life sentence. He always has six males to protect. I won't mention the price for that protection. Ten years of church of which half would involve mindless boredom is far better than ten years of possible assault that could lead to death at any time.
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