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GAY RIGHTS

California's 'Gay Cure' Ban Challenged in Court

Now's the time to stand up for vulnerable kids, says writer

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by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

Image: disinfo.com

What do you consider the biggest win for gay rights this year? Many would cite the legalization of gay marriage by popular vote in Maine, Maryland, and Washington. But for Guardian writer Jason Farago, the "sweetest victory" is California's ban on gay conversion therapies for children and teens, passed in September.

But CA's ban on the therapies is now facing a legal challenge, and could be overturned. Liberty Counsel, a Christian group linked to the late Jerry Falwell, has brought a federal lawsuit to prevent the law taking effect. They call the ban "an astounding violation of the right to free speech and religious liberty."

The "gay cure" ban is a big deal because it is the first of its kind, and it sets a model for others to follow, as NJ legislators are now doing. Plus, Farago writes, it protects vulnerable young people from the harm caused by the "cures." He calls on readers interested in gay rights to stand up for the vulnerable, like gay kids in California and other states.

Via the Guardian.
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Do you think California's ban on "gay cures" will be overturned or upheld?

Comments (view in Forum)

  • u
    classychazy
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    Being gay is not a sickness or a choice you are either gay or you are not. Taking a child to be "cured" its not just insane its cruel! I think any parent who would force this so called "cure" on their child should be charged with mental abuse of a child and should lose said child while also doing jail time.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    I think what we have here is a bunch of "charlatan's"---sell ing a sh*t load of "snake oil cures" to a group of worried parents...Its a cottage industry for the extreme right. And I am telling you, they are doing nothing but making a boat load of money off of these parents. Telling them that there is a "cure" fore something that is not even an illness in the first place...Its just another right wing money-making racket...that prays on the ignorant.
  • DARSB
    !
    Ted Haggard and I are pretty sure you can't "pray the gay away," but I'm equally certain this won't stop a specific element of fundigelicals from trying to forcibly impose their religious values on others who have exactly the same rights of "free speech and religious liberty" under the First Amendment.
  • View all 24 replies >
  • SpookyThreeTwo
    !
    They challenge it based on the 1st amendment? How about i'll see you the preamble and raise you the 14th amendment. The children also have a right to breathe free and make their own choices. the reprocussions of being forcefully closetted are well documented. these 'cured' children will never be free, either sexually or socially, and are therefore prone at best to divorce later when they do what they need to on the down-low ... or at worst with substance abuse and severe depression, possibly suicide.
  • MongoAPillager
    !
    does not have necessarily have anything to do with hate,lot of lifestyles i disagree with,but i don't hate the people living them,this hate theme every time someone disagrees is a tired overused piece of rhetoric without validity
  • dances-weebles
    !
    @MongoAPillager yeah... it's almost become as trite as people walking around saying that 'gay' is a 'lifestyle'.

    if you don't like the term 'hate crime' then let's just say that 'conversion therapy' is a crime and let it go at that.
  • MongoAPillager
    !
    @dances-weebles using that theory,trying to make me see things from a nadless view point is a crime.i hope you will do the thing a turn yourself into the nearest thought policeman
  • View all 9 replies >
  • FFX_VA
    !
    @kirbstomp1 Same story I pointed to. Neither this story nor the Fox story about mice sex and the FucM gene state definitive proof. They say what they have found "suggests", this means they aren't sure and can't prove it so its still a hypothesis. The Journal of Sexual Medicine is peer reviewed so its more credible a source.
  • kirbstomp1
    !
    @FFX_VA - genetics control everything. I really don't need to say more after that. It's a genetic disorder. Simple as that.
  • View all 42 replies >
  • u
    Warrior_Judge
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    I honestly hope it is upheld. What about the civil rights of the kids who are gay?? The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Being gay is not a sickness that can be cured. As to whether or not it is a choice or a person being born gay, that is a question I am not qualified to answer. I will say that men who like to watch girl on girl porn action are a bunch of hypocrites if they are against gay relationships.
  • o
    Republican5001
    !
    Since kids have no rights other than to do what their parents tell them, this is a non issue. If their parents do not want them to be gay, then their right to treat their child following the opinion of medically qualified personnel, not what is considered the social norm or socially acceptable.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    LOL---this is so silly and ridiculous...It doesn't matter one bit where a kids parents "does not want them to be gay"...To believe that it does is just plain ignorant...This is the stuff from the days of the caveman...And we need to keep fighting this kind of ignorance until it is completely defeated...
  • u
    SophieB
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    @Sonny Actually, it's not silly at all. Parents all over the country refuse to give their children permission to engage in sexual activity of any kind, gay or straight (not that they obey, but nonetheless). Parents decide whether or not to allow medical treatment, including withholding treatments such as blood transfusions. Parents decide where children go to school, what kind of clothes they wear, whether or not they are allowed to engage in extracurricular activities, etc. Parents can send their kids to bed without dinner, spank them for misbehaving, force them to go to church or refuse to allow them to go, etc. None of these are considered violations of the child's civil rights.
  • o
    Republican5001
    !
    @SophieB "None of these are considered violations of the child's civil rights. "

    Key statement Sonny. Children under a certain age are their parents responsibility. Part of that responsibility is health and welfare. Perhaps the problem is some parents treat or view their kids as peers or friends and not as their kids. Children have no rights other than what their parents tell them.
  • o
    Sonny
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    @SophieB Boy, oh boy...if you (and others here on the right) think that is what I said, then its no wonder you guys are so out of touch with the rest of the country. Nobody said a thing about "giving your child permission to have sex"...Good grief!...and unbelievable that, that's what you got out of what I said here...and what this issue is all about...Look I will try to make this a little more clear for you....

    The issue here is that there is no "cure for being gay"....Parents can always teach kids the value not to engage in pre-marital sex..That is NOT the issue. The issue is that there is NO Such Thing as a "cure of gay"...Please don't try to cloud this issue any further by inserting non-issues into this conversation.
  • View all 25 replies >
  • VVP
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    Hrm.. that is interesting. Stepping on parents rights to raise their children how they see fit, and doing so through the backdoor of decree by judges. Why how on earth is it people could possibly not want to give these people every lil thing they could ask for? Oh yeah thats right, its obviously the bibles fault.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    Raise your kids however you wish....But there is NO Such thing as a "cure for gay"...So while you are raising your kid---try not to screw them up for life with your "gay cure witch hunt"...OK?
  • texas_cutie75
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    @Sonny

    I'm not on a "gay witch hunt", but this is going a bit far. There has to be a limit on interfering with parental rights.
  • DARSB
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    "Stepping on parents rights to raise their children how they see fit..."

    Is that parental right absolute? It doesn't look that way.

    We have laws about child abuse that often land parents in prison, surely that's "stepping on" some parental right. Even religious practices can be interrupted by the state. Courts frequently over-ride parental rights of Jehovah's Witnesses when a transfusion would save the child's life, and snake handling is illegal for everybody, not just kids. Faith healing parents have been imprisoned for allowing children to die rather than treat an infection.

    So I guess the question might be is so-called " reparative therapy" recognized by medical professionals as bona fide therapy for a known disease. That's unlikely to happen since homosexuality is not a disease according to the American Psychological Association and is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual that defines mental illnesses.

    But this controversy now involves lawyers and special interest groups. No telling how it may turn out.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    @texas_cutie75 Yes, but kids also have rights. I mean we all have heard of the "ultra religious parents who refuse medical attention for their kids, then the kid dies"...Well, my dear, guess what??!? Those parents are then --arrested, finger-printed, charged with some degree of murder or neglect, and tried in a court of law...You can be a good parent, but you still do not have a right to do harm to your children...
  • texas_cutie75
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    @Sonny

    The word "quackery" came up often in my reading on "gay cures". That is not a word. My humble, very humble, opinion is this; as long as taxpayer money isn't being used parents should be allowed to raise their children as they see fit. I also saw an article which is allowing allowing folks in California to enroll their children without immunizations, that is terrible!! Let the epidemics begin!
  • View all 34 replies >
  • u
    commonsense51
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    One thing I know is that Liberals will censor any free speech or religious freedom to further their Liberal ideology. They are without a doubt the biggest hypocrites this nation has. Remember when the Liberals were always the first ones to scream censorship and free speech whenever books with naked photos of children were in book stores and conservatives wanted them out? Remember when a Crucifix in a jar or urine was considered art by Liberals and protected under free speech? These hypocrites have censored Prayer from our schools, nativity scenes on public lands, Christian holidays from our schools, mention of God in graduation speeches, they have tried to censor conservatives from talk radio, conservative tv shows,. etc. These hypocrites are a total joke with absolutely no credibility.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    Nobody is "censoring" anything...You got to say what you wanted to say here, didn't you?---Please give us a break about that nonsense.
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  •
    Neo_NtheMatrix
    !
    God is under attack in America. You would think America would be be the last sanctuary of God in a godless world, but it's not. Even here a Christian must be vigilant to defend his faith and right to exercise that faith. Parents are often concerned for their children. I think that is okay and that one should not cede their parental responsibilities to the state or feds.

    Elections have consequences. The electorate made some very bad choices so now we face some dire consequences. A lot of prophecies from the Bible are starting to be fulfilled. Stay strong my fellow Christian brothers and sisters. Strap on your seat belts, because the ride is about to get really rocky.
  • Neo_NtheMatrix
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    @Sonny - You are right about a lot of ignorant people passing ignorant laws in America. One day that will not be a problem anymore.

    May God bless you Sonny. May God bless us all.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    @Neo_NtheMatrix I'm already "blessed" by my own personal faith, if you don't mind...So please feel free to offer your "blessings" elsewhere. Thank you.
  • o
    Sonny
    !
    It won't be over-turned, because there is NO such thing as a "cure for gay". That's just plain stupid to begin with.....What needs to be addressed here is people's prejudice and ignorance...That's the problem here NOT someones sexuality.
  • FollowTheMoney
    !
    A-holes on both sides of the issue trying to force other to give in to their morality. This issue shouldn't be made in to political legislative fodder. My kids are my kids, and your kids are yours. You do what you feel is right and I'll do the same. Let the lawyers push a broom, that's all they're really qualified for.
  • u
    AceLuby
    !
    That logic simply doesn't hold up. My kids are my kids, but that doesn't mean I get to do or treat them any way I see fit. For better or for worse, kids have rights too.
  • FollowTheMoney
    !
    @AceLuby Abuse is another matter. But first one must determine what constitutes abuse. If I don't want my kid to act and dress a certain way,that's up to me and no one else. I don't see that as abuse. When the kid is 18, they be any thing they chose.
  • u
    AceLuby
    !
    @FollowTheMoney Being gay is not a behavioral issue though. If a straight kid was being forced into therapy to 'make him gay' and was forced to dress and act as gay as possible w/ threat of punishment if they were ever thought of as straight, would you not consider that abuse?
  • View all 7 replies >
  • martydotcom
    !
    Google "anti gay preachers outed". the links go on for pages
    Regretabally there is no cure for stupid and if a gay child is cursed with stupid parents who happen to be followers of a stupid evangelical preacher there is little society can do to over rule parental control
  • u
    tomincali
    !
    i don't have a dog in the fight other than to say the gov needs to stay out of the parents business. as long as they are not beating or starving the kid. gov is over stepping its bounds when it comes to family and their beliefs and how some chose to raise their kids.

    the way things are going some want the gov to tell them what brand tp they have to buy and from what store.whats next put the kids in camps so gov can have total control over the upbringing,some seem to like that idea.
  • harold
    !
    Would we allow a sick patient to be bled? Should we allow mercury to be used as a laxative? Could we revive the practice of trepanning to release evil spirits? All of these used to be accepted medical practice, but in the light of new science would be considered egregious malpractice today. I would hope that a parade of witnesses from accepted medical establishments would expose this effort to return to barbarity for what it is.
  • ClaytonWinton
    !
    I'm Gay. I am just Gay. I am not Bi. I am not Lesbian. I've been only Gay Married. Four times, twice to the same man. I have never had a sexual relationship with a woman. I have never hid in a 'closet,' cowering behind a woman, living a double-life, pretending to be someone I'm not, the learned-disciplines of lieing and cheating. I'm just Gay.

    My mother, now in her 70's, is still in denial, thinks I can be 'reformed,' that it's an 'illness' of mind/spirit that can be 'healed,' and burdens one group after another to 'stress' my environment, her reasoning is that eventually I will learn to hate being Gay and 'reform.'

    That's what "conversion therapy" is, making someone miserable, to the point where they then come crawling, begging for a "better way of life."

    I have never felt guilty for being Gay. I would never ask 'forgiveness' for it, for my love. Religious groups that claim it's a 'sin' to love and marry unless they can open zippers, examine crotches, horn-in to privates, that perverse gender-discriminatory crotch-analysis of theirs, needs be forgiven, however. They know not what they do.

    Government's role is defending the meek from such perversity, such bullying, such evils. I applaud California's efforts. I was fired for being Gay Married, in California, fired by the Str8-married, for being Gay Married. They said I was a "disease," and even though I do not have HIV, they said I'd infect them, just working with them, and they'd carry it home and kill their children, that it was my 'big plan.'

    My blood has been spilt for Gay Rights. No person, Gay, Lesbian, Bi, 3rdGender, GeneMod, or anyone else should be plagued by such discriminatory religious hatefulness in any state, any land, any country, on any planet, ever.

    It took nearly two decades to stop the firings of we Gays, and now Lesbians claim they are 'gay,' which is tacit approval of what the hateful religionists always said, that it's a "disease that needs 'treatment' as a mental and spiritual 'affliction.'"

    It is not. I WAS BORN THIS WAY.

    Thank you, California, for trying.

    Kind regards, always,
    Clayton Winton
  • MongoAPillager
    !
    @ClaytonWinton me thinks with skin that thin you may need some medical attention,dude,i'm sure you watched this forum enough to know any statement maybe challenged or examined at any time by anyone,tis the nature of the game
  • jessejaymes
    !
    You see nothing immature, unusual, strange about being "gay married" 4 times? I've been straight married twice in 65 years and one of them died. Straight or gay I find it highly usual when people are "married" 4 times.
  • jessejaymes
    !
    @ClaytonWinton This is another thing I'm sick to death of. When someone exercises their right to free speech just as you have done here and a gay person doesn't like it, all of a sudden it's "bullying". Well partner I find most gay males to be bullying with their instance to parade nearly nude, phallic lollipops, HIV spreading bath houses, irresponsible public behavior (like walking around naked in San Francisco). i approve of none of that and when you demand priority over MY rights YOU are bullying.
  • View all 8 replies >
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  • u
    Hireman
    !
    I'm fearful of my child turning out to be gay. If I notice him/her leaning that way, I'd still love him/her. It truly could be worse-- he/she could get into far worse things than same sex relations. I do agree with the studies that show trying to reprogram a kid is damaging. It's better to live and let live.
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