Politix

Prev Next
Featured Quizzes
Politix Daily Headlines
Featured Debates
Issues

See all 17 issues

People
White House

See all people

BREAKING

Jobs Report: Unemployment Down Again to 7.7%

Lowest rate in 4 years, with 146,000 new jobs added

Next>

by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

Image: North Jersey

Unemployment fell to 7.7% in November - down again from 7.8% last month - according to the Labor Dept. jobs report published this morning. The economy added 146,000 jobs, better than the increase of 85,000 to 95,000 jobs predicted by economists.

The report puts the unemployment rate at its lowest since December 2008, at the the start of the financial crisis. It happened despite concerns over the fiscal cliff, which probably depressed hiring and could do so more in the months to come. However, the unemployment numbers are of course still "unacceptably high," in the words of William Dudley, president of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York.

The fact that unemployment continued to drop this month could put and end to ungrounded rumors that Obama fudged the 7.8% unemployment rate to win voters.

Via Bloomberg.

Posted Nov 7, 5:45am PST.
Like this article? B Vote Up
?

Is this jobs report a sign that things are moving in the right direction?

View results

Comments (view in Forum)

  • u
    Hireman
    !
    This is still improvement over last year at this time. However, what is not shown (as you point out) is quality of jobs and how many are seasonal. The rate is a dubious number, but the total number is more telling at least in terms of bodies where it kept up or slightly exceeded population growth. The good thing is that if it keeps up with population growth, it is a net positive due to attrition. But again, to your point, this report doesn't fully describe the quality of jobs created.
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    Just proof Obama is doing a beter job then repubs will admit. It would be down even further if Obama had pushed through an FDR style program to rebuild infastructure and create a national high speed rail system.
  • MBernard
    !
    Yup they think a community organizer can't be a job creator. Thinking the Bain capital could actually create jobs when all he can do is outsourcing and tax evasion.
  • Tralee
    !
    No, it's proof that 350,000 more people dropped out of the workforce, the number of people working or looking for work is contracting. Something like 700,000 or more people just dropped out of the workforce in the past 2 months, no jobs, no hope and a willing government to support them. Also, the 2 months before the election jobs numbers were revised down, again. So, it's proof of something, just not proof that Obama is doing a good job of anything but spreading his propaganda and campaigning.
  • Tralee
    !
    @MBernard Get your facts correct please, Bain successfully created jobs in 80% of their endeavors. That means that in 20% of their endeavors to SAVE jobs and to SAVE a company, they were not successful, but in many of those 20% they managed to keep those jobs for all those people for a bit longer. But, you guys don't want facts, you just like your propaganda clean and neat and suited to your agenda, facts be dammed.
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    @MBernard
    Look at all those jobs he created in the last eldction cycle. All those people running in the repub primary, there staffs, the ad buys on t.v. that employed outside firms to make the ads. Think of the money tedidtributed from the rich. Sheldon Adler alone re-distributed 150 million. And in the general election all that polling done by romney. Obama deserves credit for creating the climate that led to all those jobs. We are talking of thousands, maybe tens of thousands of people...
  • View all 41 replies >
  • PolitixMary K
    Mary Noble, Senior Editor
    !
    @DerivePL You probably know this, but the two reports use different methods that may explain the difference. Gallup's report is not "seasonally adjusted," whereas the Labor Dept report is. That means that the Labor Dept tries to control for patterns that happen at the same times every year (e.g. a lot of school-age workers joining the labor force every June) so they can get at the underlying jobless trend.
  • Tralee
    !
    As I've said, 350,000 people dropped OUT of the workforce, gives a nice faux number to the president pending the crash in Jan.
  • DerivePI
    !
    @PolitixMary - Gallup does have a number for adjusted and unadjusted unemployment, but both show a rise from last month (evening out the pre-election outlier). But, the big problem I have with the unemployment figure is not so much that it is in decline (that is a good thing), but the underlying disinherited who no longer are looking for jobs. Adding 146,000 jobs per month doesn't meet population growth, and doesn't begin to help the 2.5 million people that have dropped out of the labor force since last November (much less the 9 million since 2008 or 1 out of every 30 people). As you noted in your article, the numbers are "unacceptably high," but the unemployment rate does not tell much of the story.

    Thank you for stirring the pot and putting up with radicals like me! It's important to have these discussions in these desparate times.

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t16.ht...
  • Tralee
    !
    It's nice that the unemployment rate is down, but that's only because the workforce DROPPED again. Meaning, more people just dropped out of the employment market, 350,000 of them last month. So, what would the rate be if they stayed in and all the ones who dropped out the month before? Probably around 8.5% Also, just FYI, the two months leading up to the election the jobs created were just so wonderful, remember? Well, guess what? Yeah, those two months were again, quietly revised DOWN. What is it, out of the past 90 weeks or so the number has been revised DOWN in something like 80 of them. Wow, nice to know that no one with a political motive was scamming the numbers.
  • PayThatCEO
    !
    How do you "drop" out of the employment market? Do you starve to death? If you're unemployed and need a job you're looking a job. Period.
  • Tralee
    !
    @PayThatCEO Go to the BLS (Bureau of Labor Statistics) it's all there in black and white, you can read right? A person looking for work who stops looking, drops off the roles, is classified by the BLS as dropping out of the labor force. I know you guys, both of you, hate facts and the truth, but sorry, my post is factually correct backed up by information from the BLS.
  • View all 15 replies >
  • u
    tomincali
    !
    every years hiring goes up and the president can take no credit for it yet will try or someone else will try and give him credit for it.

    feds even tried to take credit for the schools we built in my area leaving out the local tax payers voted and paid for them
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    @Bobolinsky There you go using the "F" word again..... Bamacrats are easily confused.... Real Numbers in an argument? They're going to vaporlock and Candybar Crowley will have to step in to substantiate their lie.

    Get ready Bamacrats..... I'm gonna use the word..... FACTS....... FACTS, the antibullshit.
  • u
    lochlomond
    !
    This is an average and does not reflect regional variations. Conditions vary from state to state and I have learned not to take any government reports as gospel. Figures are often revised from month to month and are underreported. Having a job or even two today does not automatically imply a family sustaining income. Statistics can be twisted to mean anything that fits the desired agenda.
  • u
    lochlomond
    !
    @PoliticalSpice Thank you. Over time, even going back to the Vietnam War, official reports have not given the whole picture, or have painted an imaginary picture quite the opposite of what is reality. In the case of the war, American casualties were underreported while the North Vietnamese losses were inflated. Almost fifty years after JFK's death, questions linger. The Warren Report was turned out in haste in order to set American minds at ease. Had it been real, it would have taken years of exhaustive inquiry. How long did it take the American government to admit that Agent Orange was toxic to humans and Vietnam veterans were not whiners looking for a lifetime handouts? Most recently, the script concerning the murders in Libya underscored the lies we have been told. In terms of the jobs report, where are these jobs? How much do they pay? What skills do they require, if any? Do they have benefits? Are they permanent or seasonal? We are given percentages. Of what?
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    @lochlomond
    You just noted the second valid attack on the premise the economy is improving, this employment IS seasonal, no qyestion about that.

    Make no mistake, I think economy is improving, but if one wants to give an argument it isn't they should not deny facts, but should come up with a valid premise. You did, and I respect that more then a lot of the nonesense that passes for debate around here.
  • mudzangandoro
    !
    @PoliticalSpice You are right. By using the term "average" as [lochlomond] suggests, it doesn't mean that's a precise figure, 7.7%. It merely suggests that there is a general trend that things are improving.
  • u
    lochlomond
    !
    @jzmhlanga If you live where I do, a small city stripped of its entire manufacturing base between 1994 and 2004, and the subsequent departure of other types of businesses becaue of an overrall contraction of disposable income., you would understand what I mean. If the national average is 7.7%, someone must be doing very well but not Pennsylvania which has a higher unemployment rate than the "average," and not my small city where it is said unemployment is over 10% although it is more likely around 15 or 20%. My city is bankrupt and the elected officials, council and the mayor, are trying to hold it together with unsecured loans and outrageous tax increases. Next year, each homeowner will see a 12% tax increase followed by a 13%, 14% and then a 9% increase in 2016. The county raised property taxes last year. The school district is liimited by law to less than a 4% increase each year unless it wants to put the increase on the ballot for referendum. Naturally, they raise taxes every year but not enough to put it out there for the public to decide. Our capitol city, Harrisburg, is just about to tank as well. Wherever the jobs are, they are not here. I am looking down the road to the demise of private home ownership, varying degrees of dependency on government programs by most families and a decline in attendance in post high school programs or colleges and universities. Why would this be? Theoretically, the better your educational credentials, the more likely you will be able to find remunerative work and so it was at one time. Now highly educated young people are competing with high school grads or even dropouts for whatever jobs are out there. The college graduates are stuck between a rock and a hard place. They owe a fortune in school loans which will be exacerbated by deferring them and are struggling to pay them by working at whatever they can find. The waitress who served my cousins and me yesterday in an upscale restaurant was a 2010 graduate of Notre Dame. A former student of mine who graduated in 2005 with an engineering degree is a substitute teacher. He does not have the money to relocate so he is stuck here, babysitting for high school kids while trying to obtain teaching credits in night school. I could go on and on since I know so many of the young people around here. I am outraged for them and terrified for my grandchildren. You can see why I am cynical about government reports about anything.
  • View all 6 replies >
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    Figures often lie and liars always figure.

    10% of 100 is the same as 1% of 1000.

    The unemployment rate measures the number of people actively looking for a job as a percentage of the labor force.

    The labor force is the sum of employed and unemployed persons.

    Persons are classified as unemployed if they do not have a job, have actively looked for work in the prior 4 weeks, and are currently available for work.

    When a person decides that they are NOT going to find a job because the economy is trashed, they have left the labor force.

    You can reduce a percentage by decreasing the dividend or increasing the divisor.

    Der' Fuhrer would like you to believe the change is because the divisor is increasing; funny how it's only the percentage we get to see. Perhaps the hard numbers don't reflect his propaganda.
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    @PoliticalSpice I gather from your cryptic attempt at a comment you take offense to me questioning figures presented by the Government.

    I do have a right to do so, regardless the Constitution, just as you have to interject whatever it was you were trying to say. Is there a point or is this just another of your usual deposits along the path of intelligent discussion?
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    @Sharpshooter
    I already noted you had a right to say so. I take no offense, just using you as an example of people who would rather question reality than accept reality, and come up with an intelligent argument in dupport of their veiwpoint, as the person the posted above your comment did.
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    @PoliticalSpice My argument was quite intelligent, perhaps it was beyond you. I'll try to explain it with small words and not assume a sixth grade math skill level.

    When the number of people looking for work goes down while the number of people working doesn't change, the unemployment PERCENTAGE becomes a smaller number....... Even though the number of people working doesn't change, the PERCENTAGE becomes smaller.

    There are still the same number of people NOT working, it's just that some of them aren't looking for a job any more.

    Someone trying to make it look like there are less people not working would use the lower percentage number as their proof. Since we don't know the numbers the percentage represents we shouldn't accept the percentage as proof.

    Here's another example for you, using simple numbers you can understand.

    Most people have more than the average number of fingers.

    THAT IS A FACT even you cannot disagree with.

    Here's how it works. Most people have ten fingers, they are born with them and the number doesn't usually change.

    If you have 100 people you should have 1000 fingers.... ten fingers per person.

    An average is calculated by dividing the number of fingers by the number of people... you'll end up with 10.

    BUT...

    If five people in the 100 had accidents and lost one finger each, the total number of fingers is 95, not 100. Divide 95 fingers by 100 people and you have .95, move the decimal and you come up with an average of 9.5 fingers per person.

    It's very unlikely that someone will grow a finger so 10 is probably the maximum.

    Since most people have 10 fingers, they have more than the average of 9.5.

    See how numbers can be confusing if you don't pay attention.

    By the way.... if you do your homework you'll discover that I am right, the decrease in unemployment is due to people who quit looking for work more than people getting work.

    The President, and apparently you would prefer people to think it's because he's doing a stellar job of reviving the economy. I know him to be dishonest, I'm not sure if you're also dishonest, simply uninformed or just have math skills as weak as your spelling and composition skills.
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    @Sharpshooter
    Yea, well your averaging of fingers is really not relevent to this argument, and all your insults and explanations don't change the fact the economy gained jobs. Now you can deny that, or you can seek to show explain shy it does not support the premise Obama has improved things. You prefer to use numbers to confuse and deny. The person who posted before you actually came up with an intelligent explanation....
  • View all 9 replies >
  • MarkJM
    !
    It's manipulated every month, why should this month be any different. When the Dept. of Labor starts factoring in those who "dropped out" of the workforce and other factors to come up with the real percentage, then I'll start taking these stats into consideration again.
  • u
    PhreedomPhan
    !
    All too often when politicians talk of "creating jobs" they talk of "jobs" in government or those segments of the private sector complying with government rules and regulations These are not jobs. They are institutionalized unemployment. The only jobs that count toward economic recovery are those in and related to manufacturing. We have to restore our industrial base, but our rulers will not allow that. They've gone to too much trouble to destroy it.
  • Thegrif
    !
    Not at all. According to the Labor Dept. the fall in unemployment is because people just stopped looking for jobs. Also they ran out of unemployment benefits. That and I figure all the seasonal workers for the holidays. Lets wait and see the numbers in Jan, Feb, Mar, before we get excited.
  • harold
    !
    Things are improving, but 146,000 new jobs is not enough yet. On the other hand, a slow recovery tends to last longer. The last thing I'd want to see right now is a big new stimulus.
    On a side note, any fiscal stimulus takes almost two years to be fully felt in the economy. Keep that in mind...
  • u
    S-N-A-F-U
    !
    What O'Looter's 'pravda' media has failed to tell you, that 350,000 have just been taking off the unemployment rolls and placed in the no longer looking. catagory.
    Also, during the holidays there is always an increase in temp part time help.

    In the mean time, true unemployment figures are closer to 15% which includes those off the rolls and no longer drawing unemployment insurance.....

    Remember the old axiom: "Figures lie, and liars figure"?
  • Malitia_Man
    !
    I'm still unemployed!!! College is so over rated!! I wish I had a dollar for every time I've been told that I'm overqualified!!! This shows that some businesses at hiring, but are not willing to pay!!! I want to thank Washington, DC for the dissolving of the middle-class!!!
  • R Load more comments...