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GUNS

Congressman Wants to Ban 3D Guns

He'd like gun-control law renewed to combat 3D printed pistols

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by PolitixMayday

Staff Writer t

Image: Defense Distributed

3D printing, a new technology allowing users to "print" out plastic parts and tools, may face an innovation-stifling force: Congress. Specifically in the form of Rep. Steve Israel (D-IL) who's seeking to limit the technology to stem the proliferation of guns.

Israel is concerned that 3D printed plastic firearms can't be detected by conventional metal detectors. To fight this, Israel wants Congress to renew the Undetectable Firearms Act, a 1988 law banning plastic guns. The law expires late 2013.

It's uncertain how renewing the ban would directly affect 3D printing, but as Boing Boing's Cory Doctrow points out, the implications could be far-reaching for law-abiding 3D printers. Government officials would either have to construct new copyright laws covering the exchange of 3D blueprints, or force limits on the personal use of printers.

Fears of a 3D printed gun may be overstated as well. Printers can produce parts, like a receiver or a stock, necessary for a gun, but the effectiveness of such parts is dubious at best. The plastic used by most printers can't withstand the pressures from firing a gun repeatedly.

Via Boing Boing and NBC.
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Should there be laws to limit the use of 3D printers?

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167 Comments (view in Forum)

  • Tina
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    Metal detectors can only detect metals with a magnetic signature. Lead and copper in the bullet is undetectable to those machines. For example, you can carry a knife made out of copper through one and never set it off. Bronze may or may not set it off based on the amount of tin in the mix.

    As for printed guns, right now there is little practical use for them but of course the same could be said for the first cars as well.
  • Big-R
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    @Tina Sorry but your wrong. I am an avid user of metal detectors. I have found lead musket balls, and modern bullets as deep in the ground as 12 inches. I also find spent cartridges all the time. The notion you can't detect lead copper or brass is preposterous. Lead has the same signature to a metal detector as gold.

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  • MRMacrum
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    "This current administration wants to re-write our constitution so bad they can't stand it." ...

    I think you have it backwards. The Right seems more intent on changing the Constitution in recent times than the Left. Over the last decade, the Right has suggested amendments to the Constitution that, prohibit flag burning; (2) address victims' rights; (3) ban abortion; (4) require a balanced budget; (5) prohibit same-sex marriage; (6) allow state-endorsed prayer in public schools. I am sure there are others.

    And what suggested change to the Constitution has Obama suggested that I can find? Well he just recently endorsed an effort to overturn the recent "Citizens United" decision by the Supreme Court. Citizen's United of the "Corporations are people Fame". As far as any other credible accusations of Obama wanting to re-write the Constitution, there are none I can find. Oh Yeah, FOX recently accused Obama of wanting to re-write the Constitution. It must be true because FOX said so even though their back up facts are non existent.
  • Cheenoguy
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    Lets be fair. Out gun rights have expanded under Obama. I know many are convinced he wants to take them away, but his actions have shown otherwise.

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  • woodtick57
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    Steve Israel is a representative to the US congress from the state of Illinois. The article is not referrring to the Near East nation of Israel.
  • marine1
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    Silly boy, why, all of a sudden would our elected officials want to start doing things that would benefit the American citizen? the shock would kill half of them.
  • Politic-n
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    It is AMAZING how clueless our elected "leaders" are about most things they make decisions on isn't it!? Of course after 15 years in law enforcement and the military, I am no longer surprised at "government stupidity", I think it must actually be a requirement.
  • MarkJM
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    Steve Israel should be looking at the issues of his state vice that of the entire nation. We have a fiscal cliff on the horizon and this CONgress-person would rather waste his time instead. I wouldn't worry about this legislation folks, it's pretty much dead on arrival in the GOP controlled House anyways.
  • MarkJM
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    @dances-weebles Nothing paranoid about it. This CONgressman represents a district where gun crime is rampant, and he wants to make said gun crime worse by only keeping law-abiding citizens in check. Instead of gun control measures, how about more stringent measures for criminals who use firearms in the commission of crimes? But I guess that would make too much sense.
  • dances-weebles
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    @MarkJM the paranoid cliché i was referring to the buzz phrase,'fiscal cliff'.

    but while we're changing the subject, there are already strict measures in place covering the use of firearms in the commission of crimes. haven't you noticed?

    tell me, do you really need the ability of running off copies of a gun?
  • MarkJM
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    @dances-weebles If there are already strict measures, then they're not be enforced all that well. I point to Chicago and Washington DC for references. It's not about running off copies of firearms, simply because criminals will only continue to find ways to do so. Don't like firearms? Don't buy them.

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  • Politic-n
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    NOT A SINGLE PRODUCTION GUN IN EXISTENCE can make it through a metal detector if the detector is on and working. Any gun requires metal parts to contain the pressures generated, such as a barrel, as well as springs, and not forget the ammo. Don't depend on hollywood for your information.
  • stepped_in_it
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    Just one question? Have the "terrorist" signed this agreement?
    Our idiotic politicians do realize that if it's been designed that it doesn't require a major manufacturer to produce. And, unlike nukes/bios/chemicals, this isn't a whole lot of money to produce and I'm sure the Chinese can do it for them very cheaply.
    Now, the point of this ban is? Any gun law only affects the law abiding citizen. Criminals/terrorist don't follow laws/bans!
  • FFX_VA
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    Idiot, 3D printers aren't the problem, undetectable firearms (and malicious people) are the problem.

    Rather than stifle the evolution of technology embrace new ones to detect the undetectable. Banning 3D printers is just plain stupid.

    Banning undetectable firearms may be a temp measure, but the are still being made so you're just keeping the honest people honest. Well connected bad guys can still get their hands on them.

    This congressman needs to talk with the experts before speaking.
  • Politic-n
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    Name just ONE "undetectable" firearm that a firearm mfg company makes. They all require at least a metal barrel and chamber to contain the pressures involved, and the ammo unless it is a non-metallic bullet and caseless and electrically ignited, must contain metal as well, but even guns that can fire caseless experimental ammo require metal parts to generate the electricity needed, so again, NO SUCH THING AS AN UNDETECTABLE GUN.
  • FFX_VA
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    @Politic-n Step outside the public world of gun manuf and into the R&D world with advanced high-strength engineered materials. There are also chemical based pressure initiated primers able to ignite propellants without metal components.

    Ur correct that these technologies are not avail to the general public or ordered online, but they are avail to nation states of significance.
  • DerivePI
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    @CanisCanemEdit - That is not the way I would test a plastic product in an explosive device. He is leaving way too much room for Darwin.
  • Dan_Tien
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    This reminds me of the time that some lawmakers wanted to ban Glock handguns because they were afraid the synthetic materials incorporated in their manufacture would make them undetectable by metal detectors. Fortunately they failed, since Glocks are now the most common handgun used in law enforcement.
  • Charles1961
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    That is a pretty cool idea, being able to print my own prototype weapon. I definately think the Democrats are trying to take gun control to a new level. The public should implement new politician control by voting out the Democratic radicals.
  • Buzzfriendly
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    The gun control advocates are always looking for an angle to circumvent the US Constitution. But as usual there logic error is the assumption that the criminal is going to follow the law. The reality is the only law being broken is trying circumvent the US Constitution. Now if they want to start an effort to amend the US Constitutions 2nd amendment then go right ahead. This is legal and there are provisions for doing so.
  • Buzzfriendly
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    @woodtick57 Not knowing the specifics of the case, I can only guess that it hasn't went all the way to the supreme court. In my opinion even the Supreme Court has there own ways of circumventing the US Constitution. Furthermore in my opinion they should be legal as well. Perhaps I am missing something in the US Constitution but I don't see anywhere that it has exclusions for the materials guns are made from, the number of rounds it can shoot, how fast or how large or small the ammunition can be. I guess the legal assumption is that if it isn't listed then it fair game to ban depending on what side of the fence the judges are on.
  • Buzzfriendly
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    @woodtick57 Nor should they be banned from owning them. Possession shouldn't be the crime, using them where people or personal property are harmed should be.

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  • LGRepublican
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    Let me see if I get this.... With all the important issues facing this country, Rep. Israel decides that banning 3D guns should be at the forefront. This from the state that elected George Ryan, Blaggo, and Jesse Jr. You get what you vote for. Yet another reason I'm glad I don't live in Illinois....
  • RobertJHarsh
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    As someone who understands how 3D printers work, these "printed gun parts" are typically reproductions and do not work in use. These parts that are "printed" are sent to manufacturers to create a metal or a version of the print out that can be used. Do you think you can print out screws and use them? What about a rim for a tire? No that rim gets sent to a manufacture company to be put into product using conventional metals that are safe. Do you really want a plastic gun...or a plastic rim on your car? Just by Steve Israel making these comments, he clearly has no understanding of how manufacturing and product development works.
  • Politic-n
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    I think the author of the article and the congressman watched too much Star Wars or something and think if something is in a movie, then it must be real. I guess light sabers will be next on the chopping block?
  • mimi57
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    @woodtick57 Ignorance will never accept reason...they don't have that many "facts"..why not look up some 'facts'
    for yourself. That's right, the Liberal biased media doesn't deal in facts, just 'feelings'. Try getting just a fraction of
    your 'news' from someone other than NPR and MSNBC.

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  • jessejaymes
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    After reading the comments day after day it seems to me that most people are more interested in fixing blame than fixing problems. What does it accomplish blaming the GOP or the Dems for something that both parties have been doing without deviation over the past 8-12-16-20-30 years? The Patriot act was a GOP baby. It hasn't changed a bit except to get worse under Obama and it will get worse under the next President regardless of Party. We are in the middle of becoming a land of the rich and the rest and by the rest will be kept in line one way or the other. And I don't see a bit of difference in the GOP or the Dems in this respect. NAFTA has clearly failed. It was supposed to keep Mexicans home to work there and lower production costs. Well it lowered car making by about 50%. Did we get any of that 50% on our sticker prices? We did not. Did the Mexicans quit coming? They did not. NAFTA was a GOP drafted bill, signed by a Democratic President and expanded by both a GOP and Dem president since.

    What do you people think you're accomplishing by party line finding fault? Does that make it OK as long as you can "blame the other side"? None of this will change unless all of you decide to RE-ELECT NOBODY in congress for 12 years. TOTALLY clean house in both Houses. THEN they would get their ducks in line but not until and you won't do that will you? You simply won't do it. You will continue to blame "the other side" and it will be business as usual.
  • mimi57
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    It's not about 'fixing' the blame. It's about a political agenda...one that believes in a smaller government, freedoms
    for Americans, lower taxes, and a strong military among other things conservatives value..the other, a "Nanny" government that wants to take from the middle class and rich and redistribute it to the poor, what gives them that right?..Cradle to grave entitlements, taxing and spending our way to 17 trillion dollars, taking peoples guns and
    Liberties away, there is really no comparison as to what each party stands for, this election, the people chose
    to be 'taken care of', they want entitlements on the backs of people who work hard...it's real hard to take entitlements from people, as we've seen in Italy, Greece and so on. It's like taking a baby's bottle... they will
    scream bloody murder and take to the streets rioting. I believe in free market Capitalism and Liberty, that is
    what has made America great. Not 'cradle to grave entitlements' and robbing from the rich to give to the poor.
  • jessejaymes
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    @mimi57 Mimi I have nothing against you and I honestly do believe in a multi party system as a check and balance but our government is broken beyond repair. Reagan was the worst deficit spender in USA history to his time. GH Bush beat Reagan and GW Bush was the worst in history to his time. I'm not excusing Obama but it's both parties and until people like you on the right and people on the left accept this and throw ALL the bums out there is going to be no change. You read me. I'm pro workfare, not welfare. But even so the welfare is less than 4% of our deficit. Military is 40%. We can't continue claiming that one side or the other is at fault. THEY BOTH ARE.
  • mimi57
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    @jessejaymes You're right...the system is broken, and Bush was no fiscal conservative, but if you believe that sliding into socialism is the answer to our problems...then I don't know what to tell you. So , you say Reagan,
    GH. and GW. were big spenders? Well Obama has tripled all that spending and more ! Explain how that makes it better?... I guess the question is this, are we better with socialism or without it?...No system is perfect, but one
    is obviously so far removed from what this country was founded on, that they will never see the damage that is
    being done, not until it's too late and that's coming real soon!
  • jessejaymes
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    @mimi57 Look Mimi we can't get anywhere if you say things like "Obama has tripled all that spending". He has not. McCain would have had the same situation. The debt has something called interest tied to it. That's why Bush Sr spend more than Reagan in only 4 years. We have to pay that interest on top of what we borrow. Every president pays the price for those who went before him unless we curtail spending AND interest to no more than we take in. No president in my lifetime one either side except for Clinton has done that. Not one. Obama is actually spending at a less rate than any president since Eisenhower in real dollars. You can look that up. The problem is Congress on both sides. The House pork barrel spends by the GOP and the Senate pork barrel spends by the Dems and they both agree to hide this spending and pass bills that have "riders" on them that we never hear about THAT spending and they cover each others ass.
    ON TOP OF THAT, they go public and blame each other for exactly what they do themselves.

    You ask if I favor socialism. I do favor socialized medicine. That's the only thing I can think of that I favor socialism. I have been to many countries and I have seen socialized medicine work well. It works very well in Germany, very well in France and guess which two nations have the highest rated quality of life in the world today? Same two. There can be no solutions if we don't mix and match philiosphies from both parties. I'm pro gun to the max. You won't take my guns. That's very conservative. I'm for closing the southern border. That's ultra conservative. But I am in favor of socialized medicine. That doesn't mean I support tour guides in D.C. making 100,000.00 a year like some do. We cannot get anything done as long as each side just dismisses the other side as liars and thieves when both sides are. Mimi? Neither side does what they tell us they stand for. They talk, talk talk and spend spend spend. BOTH parties.
  • mimi57
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    @jessejaymes We will most definitely have to agree to disagree. You can not compare third world countries w/ the US., it's not reasonable...

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  • Sharpshooter
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    We ABSOLUTELY NEED TO control the use of 3D printers. Some evil mad scientist or Socialist Commie bedwetter might use on to create a bunch of brainless politicians..... Oh wait, I think that might have already happened.
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