To Get Money Poor Families Keep Children From Learning

NYT columnist remarks on Appalachian trend to bring money in

Supplemental Security Income, a poverty program aimed at assisting poor families with disabled children, offers a perverse incentive for keeping children from learning, writes New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof. The incentive: a monthly $698 check for each child considered disabled.

Four decades ago, 1% of poor children were considered disabled. The number is 8% percent today. That's over 1.2 million, according to Kristof, fueling demand for a $9 billion program.

According to Kristof, parents are pulling their children out of literacy classes so their families can continue to collect disability checks. Additionally, the program also offers bigger checks for single women with children, giving an incentive to not marry. Doing well in school and seeking a stable lifestyle threatens the very income many depend on.

"This is painful for a liberal to admit," Kristof writes, "but conservatives have a point when they suggest that America's safety net can sometimes entangle people in a soul-crushing dependency."

Kristof's suggestion: invest more money in early childhood education. It's a cheaper solution, he writes, than adult incarceration, and will help children to pull themselves out of poverty.

Via the New York Times.

Should poverty programs have tighter standards?

[woodtick57]

"the safety net entangles people"?!?!? they have no mind or free will of their own? Seriously, people actully think like that?

[CanisCanemEdit]

I think the problem is that many people have put a price on their personal pride, and it seems to me to go real cheap.

But now that these uneducated, prideless, po-folks are in the system, how do we ever get them out?

This exemplifies the falacy of handouts versus help-up.

[scotta]

@CanisCanemEdit You cut the strings. This is how you really help people.

[CanisCanemEdit]

@scotta - Agree. But after feeding them for so long are we not now obligated to teach them to fish?

[scotta]

@CanisCanemEdit yes we are. The cutting is going to hurt but it has to be done. The hand outs started as hand ups, now people feel they deserve it. Th:e tax payers owe the people this. I do not mind tax dollars to give a hand up not hand out.

[kathyparsell]

@CanisCanemEdit ...I agree about the fallacy of handouts, the real problem brings to mind a joke my father told years ago... The democrats throw so many life preserves at a drowning man that they weigh him down & he drowns anyway...The republicans place the life preserver right by the boat and the man swims & swims but drowns before he gets there.

[Dan_Tien]

The idea is to help, not to enable.

[Cool_voter]

You are 100% exactly right.
Helping is something we SHOULD do.
So many people today are using the system too well, and they need to tighten restrictions on who can and can not use said programs.
Don't make it impossible for people with true honest problems to get the help they need, however.

[FFX_VA]

@Cool_voter I'll second that

[kirbstomp1]

As much as I hate government, and 80% of our federal government is actually unconstitutional, if you have a program such as this one it needs to be a trampoline, not a net. For that to be achieved you need stricter standards and more people on supply to help these unemployed get back into the work force rather than having more children to get TANF money. Also the government needs to manage our resources and our money more efficiently by these programs. A private accounting firm needs to audit these agencies and programs to make sure our money is being used efficiently. But look who were dealing with, politicians. In Washington they look like a bunch of chickens with their heads chopped off running circles.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

"But look who were dealing with, politicians"

As long as politicians oversee these programs (and they have to, even if the program is outsourced) then fraud will continue. You can say I'm ignorant all you want, but these programs are not helping people, they are hurting people. I say eliminate them and free the people that have been entangled in their sticky web. I agree with the first half of your first sentence.

[kirbstomp1]

@Neo_NtheMatrix - in my statement im assuming that they are not going to shut these programs down. Im not calling you ignorant but, but it's not smart to assume that just bc you don't like the programs. I don't like them either, but I also know they aren't going to stop them. Therefore they should be reformed and also be audited by a private firm. Not only should we make government accountable but government itself should make agencies and programs accountable for resources and funds. These vacations need to end.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

@kirbstomp1 - Let's not assume and let's vote to have these programs shut down. They are only hurting the recipient directly and society as a whole indirectly.

[kirbstomp1]

@Neo_NtheMatrix - so allow these people to go slap broke (not thugs but people who really can't find a job). You know crime would soar to historic levels, possibly worse than during the great depression. Not a smart move, then you would have to pay for more police officers and the cost per capita in a prison isn't cheap. Oh and then how are these people going to pay their fines when they are broke? they'd be back in prison on your tax dollar once more. I would rather help someone with our tax dollars than punish someone. Where are your Christian qualities sir?

[kirbstomp1]

@kirbstomp1 - im not even a christian but I was raised a Christian and still carry the qualities. Why not help the needy it clearly states it in the gospel.

[DerivePI]

If you study hard an get an A, we'll give you a job producing 60" TVs. If you slack off and fail, we'll give you a 60" TV.

[LGRepublican]

Well said and sadly so true. Makes you wonder who are the smart ones, those of us who go to work everyday or those who sit on their a$$ collecting government checks.

[DARSB]

The trouble with programs meant to help is that they accumulate well-intentioned additions, like a sailing ship accumulates barnacles. The SSI was a tough program to qualify for 40 years ago.

Today, at my home health agency, we have "employees" who are Certified Nursing Assistants paid to stay at home to care for their "special needs" child. Some of these kids really do need hours of care every day - cerebral palsy, intractable epilepsy, things like that. But we also have kids with more behavioral issues that aren't really in a CNA's range - yet the state regulations qualify them for the same program.

[texas_cutie75]

That is a huge business in my neck of the woods. Its insane!!

[DARSB]

@texas_cutie75 Colorado is trialing a screening tool this winter to help more objectively determine the kid's need. We just started using it last week so no results yet, but it's a start.

[texas_cutie75]

@DARSB

I would need an abacus to count all the "CNA's" that provide for a family member, we have been playing that game for a while.

[marine1]

What this really highlites is the inept ability of our goverment to solve a situation.

[DARSB]

@marine1 Government isn't completely inept, of course - public health, the military, and the Moon landing come to mind - but you're right, the social programs seem especially apt for cheating out just runaway growth.

[CommonSense]

Not learning how to read because your parents want to be able to collect disability is NOT a disability. Give me a break. Can't they distinguish between kids who just aren't learning and kids with genuine disabilities?
Furthermore, if you can't read, sorry but you can work at McDonald's. You don't even have to know math because they use pictures of the food.
If you are poor unless you have a REAL disability that is actually making you unemployable but you still need financial assistance then you should be required to put in volunteer hours. No more handouts. I can understand it can be terribly hard to find a job sometimes, but finding volunteer work is easy so let's make them volunteer to get welfare. Require as much as if the person had a full-time job and people will want to get off of welfare.

[PNWest]

When programs don't work FIX THEM. Poverty is not something that anyone strives for but programs designed to help the poor need to help people out of poverty not reward them for digging deeper into it.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

So let me ask you something, if these programs reward people for digging deeper in, wouldn't eliminating them automatically make people head in the other direction?

[PNWest]

@Neo_NtheMatrix NO! I heard stories from my grand parents about living through the depression and what it was like to not have enough food. A decent society helps those who need help. Fix the problems with the programs don't eliminate them.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

@PNWest - But these programs are just making people poorer generation after generation. If the programs didn't exist to enable and reward poverty people wouldn't get poorer and poorer each generation. I can't understand what the defense for these "soul-crushing" programs (that's a term a liberal used, not me - although I agree with it) could possibly be. It's the same all over the country. If you pay people to be poor, then poor they shall be.

[LGRepublican]

@Neo_NtheMatrix That's why people and animals wean their young, it you let them keep depending on the parent, they never learn to do for themselves.....

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

@LGRepublican - Amen. I never thought of it that way, but that is so true. Some people however can't wait until they can be on their own. Others need more prodding.

[NO-BAMA]

Sounds like the "takers" of society have found something else to fleece. I bet Barry is proud to see this.
Once these "disabled" kids grow up, what do you think will be passed onto their own deadbeat kids?
Born and bred welfare collectors. The welfare nanny state is expanding day by day and the libs love it. Future voters for the entitlement party.

[hybridlment]

This article, sadly, is not an exaggeration. They did omit that 3/4 of the (young and healthy, employable) people who receive SSI spend it on cigarettes and pills, not kids.

[PoliticalSpice]

Firstly, lets note this is appaliatian trail, e.g. Rednecks, the very people who scream loudest against govt programs. Second, this is a stupid program, it should be endded. SSI is not the problem, lax standards on what constitutes disability are. Third, just si I make this clear and am not misunderstood, I do not support programs like this, I support govt job programs so that the money paid teaches a skill, gets necessary work done for the benefit of society, and gives everyone, including people with disabilities the opportunity and dignity of work. And just so you folks that never seem to get it understand, this is not liberalism...

[texas_cutie75]

I honestly wish you wouldn't throw the term "redneck" around like that. This is what rednecks around here stand for, this is what I took away from my childhood!
Sense of Inner Peace
High Sense of Duty and Honor
Low need for Man-Made Mores
Honoring Ancestors
Eschewing Wealth

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

"Second, this is a stupid program, it should be endded"

I'm glad at least one liberal on this board agrees with me that this program should be ended.

[PoliticalSpice]

@Neo_NtheMatrix problem is I'm not a liberal. Oh, and why no response in the other thread about the police wanting to keep text messages. Too much reality for you to deal wth?

[PoliticalSpice]

@texas_cutie75 well, as i moted on the other thread about the hillbilly reality show, i'm often not politically correct, and it often gets me in trouble...

[MongoAPillager]

@texas_cutie75 he can't help it,he,s from Berkeley,CA,they're very progressive don't cha know

[IMAQT]

You mean the government's war on poverty is still not working?

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

"This is painful for a liberal to admit," Kristof writes, "but conservatives have a point when they suggest that America's safety net can sometimes entangle people in a soul-crushing dependency."

Anybody want to apologize to me for saying that I don't know what I'm talking about when I say that liberalism traps people in generational poverty?

[woodtick57]

These people aren't trapped. they aremaking that concious decision on their own. and the area they are talking about is very "conservative"....

[kirbstomp1]

The renaissance? The enlightenment? Both huge liberal movements that have allowed civilization to advance to where we are. The dark ages were ruled over by conservative theocrats. I think you use the terms liberal and conservative in the wrong manner. History repeats itself.

[LGRepublican]

@kirbstomp1 You forgot the nanny state.....

[kirbstomp1]

@LGRepublican I haven't forgot that. I don't agree with that either. the safety net is sagging. Those programs need tremendous reforming. If you want to get government funds you essentially should work for the government. Your job should be finding a job, if you don't find a job your fired. Now college funds is a different story.

I think you took my statement as being partisan. Im not either a lib or a pub. Just stating a fact.

[tomincali]

that is the tip of the iceburg, when those same parents can get paid to watch those kids at the tune of 10 to 13 bux an hour here in ca for in home supportive services.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

I feel vindicated when a liberal like Nicholas Kristof has to admit that these types of programs don't help people, they only hurt people. It's time to start eliminating the liberal poverty trap that keeps people from striving to be the best and instead just pays them to be the worst. Barry has at least a few programs he can offer to cut in order to keep us from going over the fiscal cliff. And in return for not punishing all Americans he can eliminate programs that are impoverishing Americans.

[woodtick57]

@Neo_NtheMatrix yet these programs do help people. Just because some abuse the program doesn't mean the program itself is flawed, its overseeing is flawed.

[Zazziness]

@Neo_NtheMatrix I thought conservatives believed in personal responsibility but you talk like people have no choices and are puppets. I think you have to decide which you really believe.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

@Zazziness - Be honest. Totally, truthfully honest. If you could make your exact salary sitting around on your butt all day home and never had to work at all, would you work? If you would forgo a free salary and earn your pay anyhow then I'll stand corrected. You and I know better though.....

[Zazziness]

@Neo_NtheMatrix I had the opportunity to go on disability decades ago. I didn't and I'm still working. Thanks for asking!:-)

[AnObserver]

Do you there might have been something to Romney's 47% comment?

[classychazy]

That's sad and sickening all at the same time.

[Fishbone345]

Appalachians? So like the cast of that reality show that Joe Manchin disapproves of?

[Thegrif]

Yes, down here in my home town, they found 3 families passing the same 2 month old off as theirs to cash in and get more money. We got to tighten up on these programs and stop the abuse.

[FollowTheMoney]

Appalachians?....Try the entire frigin' country. What an elitist bigot. Hey!, kristof !...ever been to Philly, Detroit, LA, Atlanta or how bout...NYC.

[Stratton]

When the NY Times is forced to admit that an entitlement program is being abused, you can bet the reality is ten times worse than what they're telling you.

[truthsayer]

The out right thievery of the resources of Appalachia allowed,condoned,encouraged and enforced by the government is the cause of great poverty to the mountain people. Appalachia has been and is a source of great wealth of which all most nothing if any has been allowed to stay in the area. The Federal government actually planned a bombing mission when the people there tried to keep what was theirs.The planes took off fully armed and the only thing that prevented the bombing was fog. People were fired upon with automatic machine guns at times when refusing to give up there land. This exploitation and larceny has led to what you see today in some areas of the mountains. Community's that look like a third world country. While in Mogadishu, Somalia I observed children with the same look as some of the children I have seen in the mountains of Kentucky skin tight to the bones with dissented belly's.Yes right here in America and what a shock I had when I realized it was starvation . I have never been a advocate of the welfare state in fact I believe in the teaching a man to fish theory. But I guarantee you what the people of the area have taken in fraud and deception of the entitlement programs comes no where near what has been stolen from the region and its people.