Would More Guns in Schools Help Prevent Violence?

Michigan lawmakers just passed a bill allowing guns in schools

Some argue that schools should become gun-full zones, instead of gun-free zones, to make students safer.

Just a day before the Newtown, Conn. elementary school shooting, lawmakers in Michigan Thursday passed a bill allowing gun owners who get extra training to carry their weapons in schools and other formerly gun-free areas. If the bill is signed into law, some say it could help people respond to or stop a school shooting, the Detroit Free Press reports.

"This kind of tragedy is hard to process, but if one person - a faculty member or a parent - " could legally carry, at least it could have limited some of the mayhem," said Rob Harris, media director for Michigan Open Carry Inc., in the article. "This legislation has to be passed to at least have a fighting chance against the evil in this world."

But many question the safety implications of the legislation that would let gun owners with eight additional hours of training bring their weapons to places like day care centers, schools, hospitals, churches and stadiums and bars, the article said.

"Those who think that students and teachers will be safer with more guns in our schools are just plain wrong," said Michigan Education Association President Steve Cook said in a written statement. "Thinking that teachers should carry weapons and fire on threats is a recipe for even more death - not safety."

Via the Detroit Free Press

Posted 11:10am PST.

Should guns be allowed in schools?

[Vance1]

These liberals will tell you all a story on how appaulled they are about these childrens deaths. However, if these same children would have been aborted by thier mothers, These same liberals would have been laughing, and praising those mothers for killing those babies. usually liberals enjoy the death of innocent babies. They are A typical hypocrites. Now they will demand more gun laws and regulations. Even though that will do nothing, other than steal the rights of others. Liberals dream of more laws, as in Nazi Germany

[WilliamWallace]

I just wonder if we would have allowed abortions earlier in history would we have so many liberals now.

[falco_alba]

You know something, no person likes the slaughter of human beings, and insinuating that all liberals equate abortion with mass gun murder is appalling. How you come to those conclusions is ridiculous and degrading. You poorly represent the people you align yourself with.

[Fishbone345]

"Liberals dream of more laws, as in Nazi Germany"
You realize Nazi Germany was a Fascist Government right? The idea that it was Socialist is laughable at best. The only reason it was in the title was to appeal to the German people and allow for the Nazi party to establish itself.

[Dan_Tien]

I have never met a single person who laughs and enjoys the idea of aborted fetuses. I have met women who had abortions and had feelings of regret that they did not expect though. I think that your portrayal of people who support abortion rights is a deliberate distortion based on your own fantasies and is an attempt to demonize people that you disagree with.

[PoliticalSpice]

@Fishbone345 don't try to appeal to these people with facts, they'll never understand. One idiot actually said I was an anti-gun union member because I said it was disrespectful to the dead to jump on a soapbox before they were buried just to spout his nonesense.

[WilliamWallace]

Wow I think I am beginning to love Michigan.

[Republican5001]

And it is a Right to Work state now too!

[kirbstomp1]

As opposed I am to police officers overstepping their duty, our public safety officer at our highschool would've taken a bullet for anyone of us. One of the nicest and coolest type of person I ever met.( I would leave my AP physics class go into his office and watch the news and drink mountain dews...lol then he would right me a pass. He also held a can of dip for me when the police came too. We were tight.) I believe if a school doesn't have a public safety officer than an administrator should be required to have a CCP and take a class for carry a CC weapon on a school campus. If that principal of that elementary school had a concealed pistol she possibly could've have saved many lives.

What's your opinion on admins have a CCWP on school campus?

[WilliamWallace]

@kirbstomp1 I think every legally elgible adult should have one. Not just in schools either. What if one of those six adults that were shot could have saved at least one child?!

[MBernard]

Remember that bible verse, "Their feet are swift to shed blood. Misery and destruction are in their ways and the way of peace they have not known." As long as this is the problem, no matter how little guns, how too many guns. How too little gun laws or too many gun laws..., we will never solve anything. Even God knew to begin changing mankind from within, then, mankind will in turn, get rid of all wepons.

[MBernard]

Weapons**

[Fishbone345]

Behavioral and Mental stability isn't something that can be controlled until the US admits its a reality and starts putting money into its study, analysis and treatment. Most of the shootings within the last few years, weren't red flags so Criminal Background checks served no purpose whatsoever. The ones that might have sent red flags attained their guns another way. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris bought them from a man who thought it was a good idea to sell them to unstable minors (I sincerely hope that rocket scientist burns in hell).
I think family and friends need to do a better job of recognizing severe depression or other psychological issues and not feeling out of place to speak up and say something. How many lives could have been saved if one person had said something and made sure that these people saw someone about their issues?

[classychazy]

I so agree with this statement! Very well put sir.

[Keyjo]

I have to agree. Unfortunately, so often a parents' and spouses hands are tied. Even more so in the case of partners, friends, teachers. Several years ago, laws were put into place to assure that people weren't simply locked up and the key thrown away because someone thought they were "mental." But these laws have become so restrictive that virtually nothing can legally be done until AFTER an event. And far too often, then it's too late. I have heard interviews with grieving parents of some of these perpetrators who had tried to get mental help for their children, only to be told there was nothing that they could legally do.
Not far from where I live is the Oregon State Hospital for the criminally insane. It is more or less a prison. People sentenced there AFTER having committed a violent, heinous crime. It's been said, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure," and the prevention is what we need to focus on.

[Avaholic90]

I agree. It's never the ones you suspect that one day snap and do these horrible things. And like you said if the families and friends of these kids saw 'odd' behavioral patterns that only they could see stopped and just asked how they were doing and if they were ok a lot of these tragedies would never happen. In the columbine shooting one of the shooters let on of his classmates excape cuz the kid was nice to him. If we were a little kinder and not so freaking scared of people we didn't know we would start heading down the path of world peace. I understand that it ls an almost unreachable goal but its something to work for.

[texas_cutie75]

I don't think students should have weapons in school, but teachers (with proper training) should be allowed to carry as long as the students do not have access to the weapons.

[Fishbone345]

Do you have children? They will get access to anything that isn't severely locked up. This is one of the first things you learn as a parent.

[culinary]

@Fishbone345 I have a second grader and am all for it. I would feel much better. BUT my child knows what a weapon is, what it's used for, how to use it, and most importantly, how to respect it. Unfortunate,a'll children are not taught this.

[texas_cutie75]

@Fishbone345

I do not have children, unfortunately. I have 4 godchildren and a nephew. When the children were old enough to go to a firing range, we took them. They all have superior weapon mangement skills. They all know weapons are not toys. I don't proclaim to have all the answers, but something needs to change, but what I do not know.

[ProCCW]

No students should not have guns, that is just plain silly. If a teacher is qualified, then let them carry. Plus, it would not hurt to educate the children on responsible gun ownership.

[paperdragons81]

@Fishbone345 You have a point there, if we allow guns in school the people with guns had better be very careful a kid doesn't get it.

[bsking]

yes but they should be carried by sworn officers of the law

[Fishbone345]

Much better idea. Trained individuals who answer to someone. I like it.

[Dan_Tien]

I agree. Police officers are required to go through psychological testing as well as strenuous training before they are allowed to carry weapons into schools.There is no reason to trust armed civilians around children who may have had no other training with firearms than the 8 hours required by this law. Pedophiles are able to avoid detection in schools until they have committed crimes against children, why should anybody who takes the time to plan a mass shooting be deterred by an 8 hour training course? The plan may result in the exact opposite of the intended result.

[Fishbone345]

@Dan_Tien I would not send my child to a school in which any Tom, Dick and Harry teacher was carrying. What if they cracked? They are no more immune to serious psychological stress than any human being out there.
But, a school with trained officers of the law? Hell yes. Like you said they are required testing and training. Much better solution.
I'm shocked that I've agreed with bsking not once, but twice now in two days. lol.
Perhaps things are changing around here.

[mtkopf]

I hate to admit this but I agree with you on this one.........wow God didn't strike me downwith a lightening bbolt.
Trust me I will try not to make it a habit

[Capt_Morgan02]

@Fishbone345 what in the world makes you think a police officer is any less likely than a teacher to snap? Frankly I'm for either one or both being armed in schools. Certainly the teachers who opted to carry would need some guidelines and certifications of some sort, but they are just as capable.

[ir0nw0lfe]

More guns in school keeps kids safer only if those guns are carried by trained persons.

[MRMacrum]

What is it with either side of this issue that they swallow the propaganda from their respective sides. Too many guns in America now to control them. And if folks think that allowing people to carry in schools is the magic fix, well, I do not think so.

[Capt_Morgan02]

Wouldn't be the first time you were wrong.

[MRMacrum]

@Capt_Morgan02 - Wouldn't be the first time I was right either.

[FollowTheMoney]

No, but less media coverage would defiantly help.

[culinary]

Please read Morgan Freeman's (i think that is who it was) response to this tragedy (Google it). He hit the nail on the head.

[Fishbone345]

You know, I had a conversation with an RN friend that I work with and he said the same thing. When I asked what he meant, he went on to say that these people that do this sort of thing do it for attention. They desire to "Go down in history" so to speak. And the media just plays along like a perfectly tuned instrument.
It was something I had definitely NOT thought of before he talked to me, and it sure opened my eyes to something that seems pretty logical and well thought out.
I mean look at James Holmes. He's become somewhat immortalized, thanks to the Media coverage. His final insult to the people he victimized is having his name go down in history.

[FollowTheMoney]

@Fishbone345 Your friend is right. I've shared his opinion for years. It seems like these shooters are throwing a gigantic tantrum.

[hwyangel]

That would be a bit extreme. I am surprised that schools don't already have security guards though. Especially with the rampant drugs, molesters, and truancy.

[FFX_VA]

I was told by a friend this would never have happened in South Africa because staff members would have been armed, after the first few shots the threat would have been removed and all those innocent children's lives saved.

A well regulated militia composed of the people, trained on the use of arms, is the proper, natural and safe defense of a free state. Cops can't be everywhere. Even flight attendants are trained on how to fight back against a threat, why not school staff?

[mudzangandoro]

Wow!! lets just have guns everywhere and call it a day.

[Thunderchicken]

When was the last time you heard of a shooting at a gun shop or range?

[mudzangandoro]

@Thunderchicken Its gonna happen!!!

[Thunderchicken]

@jzmhlanga

It probably already has but it doesn't happen often. And I think I know why.

[mudzangandoro]

@Thunderchicken We both know why.

[Thunderchicken]

@jzmhlanga

Yes, because guns in the hands of people who have no ill intent, prevent those with ill intent from acting on that intent.

[woodtick57]

We didn't need armed guards at our schools in my day. Looka t what has changed and youwill find your answer. it is a society that glorifies the thought that a gun will sove all your problems, change that and these horrific shootings will be a rarity, not a commonplace occurance.

[WMCOL]

Good for Michigan.

[tomincali]

kids deserve the right to be safe at school. in this day and time we all know just by watching the news something is needed,and adults being unarmed at schools has not stopped this kind of thing.

again we need a change in design of our schools to go along with this idea. as it stands kids can be locked, in some classes have one way in one way out,i have never liked that design.things are getting worst in this world and we need to keep up with prevention and be prepared. sad very sad.

[seedtick]

This is a tough question...but, I tend to believe that an armed teacher may have saved some lives in the latest tragedy. Any interruption in the chain of events that unfolded that day would have saved lives...and if an armed teacher could only save one life it would have been worth it.

[UnCommonBoston]

We need police in our schools and schools designed to keep our children safe.

In the DC area, all the high schools and middle schools have at least one police officer in the building at all times. My son went to safe, suburban schools in a predominantly wealthy area. According to him, the police always had stuff to do. I think for the most part the kids felt safer with them there.

Many parents worked for the government. Some, because of the work they did, were concerned for the safety of their children. 9/11 was especially hard since some parents worked at the Pentagon. The sniper that haunted the DC area was also difficult. People were very security conscious.

Even so, the schools are not designed to really protect our children. The kids had extra clothing at the school in case of a long term lock-down -- things like terrorist attacks, biological weapons etc. They even practiced lock-down procedures, but anyone could walk into the school without being questioned.

The school office was near the main entrance. They could watch the entrance from the office, but the office was busy. People just walked in. When school in in session, people should enter the building through the main office. The staff should be aware of every person who enters. The police should be nearby to offer assistance as well.

The shooter may have been allowed to enter the school because his mother worked there, but if class was in session it should have been strongly discouraged. Also, walking through an office carrying loaded guns is a bit more difficult.

I went to visit a school in California. Each class room had an open door to an open central courtyard. I wandered in a class and sat in the back. Nobody asked me who I was or why I was there. During recess I talked to the teacher. She was shocked at the level of security in Virginia. It doesn't matter where you live, all of our schools should keep our children safe.

[WilliamWallace]

First off I am a police officer and I like the school resource officer program. The only problem is that one gun across campus is not enough. A trained shooter/teacher in each classroom could end the situation a lot faster.

[UnCommonBoston]

@WilliamWallace I agree, but there are other steps that are easier. Classrooms need doors that lock. The doors could be kept closed and locked from the outside when class is in session. Nobody should enter a classroom without the permission of the teacher anyway. It should be difficult to enter a school and just wander the halls. Students should not be able to wander either.

The halls of my son's high school were patrolled by senior administrative staff members with radios. You could not get far without being stopped. I think many schools are heading in that direction.

For larger school, student ID's maybe necessary. ID badges should be worn by all staff at all times. Other adults wear name tags. There needs to be accountability. PTA members at my son's elementary school were given ID badges for access to the whole school. There wasn't a picture on the badge -- so anyone could use it.

Larger schools need more security. More police officers, doors the lock entire sections of the school off. Etc.

[WilliamWallace]

@UnCommonBoston True but that does not help every situation. In the past the offender has pulled a fire alarm and then the children evacuate into a slaughter. I am just for giving the kids every chance/tool we can.

I carry a duty belt at work that has a baton, mace, handcuffs, latex gloves, glock, and other items. I don't want to use any of it, but if I have to it is there. It is better to have and not need than to need and not have.

[UnCommonBoston]

@WilliamWallace I don't know how we anticipate every situation. We should offer a reasonable amount of safety and security. This situation is horrific, but random shootings in public places are not the major causes of death in this country. There are other problems that also require attention. However, people can still wander into many of our public schools. That is a serious problem in my opinion.

A group of parents, including me, made changes to our kid's daycare center so people could not just walk into the children's areas. It helped keep the children in the appropriate space as well, but the greater concern was a family member not authorized to take the child gaining access to them. At the very least, every school and daycare center should filter who has access to our children.

When a child dies, it is very upsetting. Parents want to prevent other children from dying the same way. The result is we have warning labels on bunk beds (kids under ? should not be on the top bunk) and elsewhere. All those warnings and protective laws are the result of very, very caring parents wishing to spare others the pain they felt. They alert other parents of risks they may not be aware of. Much of our world is not more dangerous than when we were children and people make fun of the warnings. You shouldn't. Would our parents have made all the same choices if they had the same information we do?

When I was in first grade there was a fire in my school. It happened at lunchtime, so we just ran out of the school in total chaos. Figures.

[Medicinebow]

@WilliamWallace I absolutely agree with you on this topic. Trained teachers would be the best and fastest response. The teachers may not like it but it is a sad reality in this day and age. Swift response is critical in situations like this.

[mtkopf]

In Plainfield Illinois the h.s. has a fulltime officer assigned there. The police chief wanted to have an assault rifle on campus locked in a safe in case of a campus shooting. The community was OUTRAGED! Finally, proposal was scrapped over "insurance concerns".

[Thunderchicken]

And it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the outraged portion of the community were also unfamiliar with guns.

[mtkopf]

@Thunderchicken that's not the point. The whole point is that everybody thinks it will never happen to them. I just say that with an estimated ( by FBI ) over350,000,000 weapons in this country and the fact that someones right to own an assault rifle is more important than the lives of children, its only a matter of time before it hits close to home.

[Thunderchicken]

@mtkopf

My point was that the people I know that are the most against gun ownership are also the people who know the least about guns. It's almost like for them guns and gun ownership are a spooky taboo. Or an irrational phobia.

[mtkopf]

@Thunderchicken I was in the military. I know about guns. I've seen, up close and personal, as a civilian, the damage guns do to people. I am not anti gun. I am for a ban on assault weapons.
As for other people, its not how much or how little they know about guns; its the end result. Except for providing food, nothing good comes from having guns so readily available in our society.

[Thunderchicken]

@mtkopf

I wasn't meaning that you know little about guns. I don't know you well enough to make that assumption. But I do know there have been times when I was glad to have a gun in my house. There have been times when I was glad I was carrying my hand gun. And there have been times I wished I had been carrying it.(Fortunately I've never had to fire it at someone.) Plus I do enjoy target shooting too.

[drow13f]

How about instead of "Should we allow guns in public schools?" why don't we ask the question Should we have public schools? It would be better to privatize the education system and let each school deal with security as they see fit. It would let parents chose for themselves by the free market instead of settling for the one size fits all government answer.
Over 70%(over 80% in AZ) of the money used for education doesn't go to the students or the teachers but it wasted in administration costs. A private company wouldn't be as wasteful. If 5 small private schools replaced the one size fits all school in my town then I would have more choices for my kids. And if 5 schools were competing for my voucher then I would have better choices.
The government should take 60% of what it currently spends per student and give a voucher to whatever school your child is enrolled. That school should be able to spend the money as it sees fit, hiring teachers, security, curriculum (whatever it wants) and this country would change rapidly.

[Quiver12345]

This is like throwing a log on a fire and telling it not to burn. This is a terrible idea.

[DARSB]

So... The idea is we continue to cut teacher salaries and education budgets but require them to carry weapons... bake sales for bullets to follow?

[Calfkiller]

LMFAO!!!!!!

[Medicinebow]

I'll donate weapons and ammo if schools allow it. I believe you'd see many groups of people lining up to help. I seldom vote for tax increases but have for teachers and fire/rescue people. I can think of a group in Colorado that would be more than willing to help teachers and provide training to them. But laws would need to be changed first. These gun free zones are getting people killed. The criminals know this. Law abiding people, by definition, are dying because of these laws. People are helpless in these situations.

[jessejaymes]

@Medicinebow Then I suggest you support more money for the schools to hire off duty SWAT members. We don't need a bunch of senior citizen wanna be Wyatt Earps waddling around the schools packing heat.

[Medicinebow]

@jessejaymes I guess its important for you to stereotype to support that proposal. Waddling old people? Who would they be? So you are convinced only SWAT team folks could adequately respond to a situation? I certainly wouldn't have any objection to such a proposal but it seems rather limited. You can't have a swat member in every classroom. Seconds count in situations like this. Some schools are quite large. The teachers are right there and if something happens theres another teacher nearby. Since you insist of stereotyping i'll let you know you could be very wrong. My son's assigned police officer is an older gentleman...much older than many of the faculty. Is this the waddler you are talking about? I've offered a suggestion on ways to help and would be willing to assist with equipment, money and time. Its a shame you can't offer anything but stereotypes.

[jessejaymes]

@Medicinebow 1.) I am a senior citizen. 2.) I have a CCL. 3.) I have seen and heard numerous old fat bellied, racist trash, talking right wingers bragging about what they would like to do if some "black thug" gave them any Chit. What is going to happen in small town American schools is these crackers are going to volunteer and two things transpire. A.) They get in a trigger happy shootout with someone they perceive as a threat and the body count goes up due to the "Wyatt Earp" killing even more kids. or B.) some thugs distract him in the hall while others walk up behind him, pin his arms and take his gun.

As a senior citizen I am competent to protect myself and my family within the confines of our home or in a family vehicle. But my reflexes, my eyesight, my hearing are not what they once were and I certainly would not want people thinking me being armed in a school would make their kids safe. Your plan is BS partner.