These Gun Laws Could Be Passed in Response to Sandy Hook

Which is the best proposal - or none of the above?

1. Make it illegal to own firearms and magazines holding more than 10 bullets. Sen. Frank Lautenberg proposed this law after the Gabby Giffords shooting in 2011. If Adam Lanza had guns holding 10 bullets or fewer, "a significant number of those 20 Newtown first graders would almost certainly be alive," writes the Atlantic's Robert Wright.

2. Regulate or ban assault weapons. Democratic Sen. Diane Feinstein promised to reintroduce the assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004. But critics say banning assault weapons is a red herring, since Adam Lanza's primary weapon, the Bushmaster .223 rifle, would have been legal under the ban.

3. Ban assault weapons AND magazines with over 10 bullets. Feinstein's promised legislation would not only nix assault weapons, but also ban "big clips, drums and strips of more than 10 bullets," Yahoo reports.

4. End gun-free zones in schools. On Sunday Rep. Louie Gohmert said teachers should have access to guns to deter attackers and defend kids if an attack takes place. He told Meet the Press that he wished Sandy Hook's principal had access to an assault rifle.

5. Nothing. No law would have prevented the shooting in Newtown, writes the Atlantic's Megan McArdle. We already have laws banning the mentally ill from accessing guns; they didn't stop Lanza from using his mom's. And banning high-capacity magazines is a non-starter when it takes just seconds to change magazines.

Via Politico, MSNBC and the Atlantic.

Posted 6am PST.

Which law should be passed to prevent another Newtown massacre?

[Speedieg]

We need better security in schools, we have armed guards at the mall but not at schools? This could be done with volunteers from the community. Gun control won't solve anything. We must teach people that violence is not always the answer. Our culture worships violence.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

I agree with everything you said, but I'd add that we also need to let God back into the classroom as well.

[twinertia]

@Neo_NtheMatrix No one's kicked anyone's imaginary friends out of anything (unless you mean going back to mandatory prayer, which is a Constitutional no-no). If imaginary friends are powerless to push their way into ANY situation, they hardly deserve the title of "deity", now, do they?

[NormalFlora]

@Neo_NtheMatrix Which god? I vote for Priapus!!!(But not until college). For the little kiddies we could have either Thor or Poseidon, and for the budding pre-teen girls there's always Aphrodite.

[Speedieg]

@Neo_NtheMatrix I have disagree with your last point. Although I am absolutely sure we believe in the same God, I could not support the indoctrination that most religions employee to gain followers being allowed in schools. Religions have always used guilt, or fear, or promoting unity by disparaging non-believers to increase their numbers and maintain control. No mainstream church today in my opinion follows the teachings of Christ. There are also many other religions and I feel that are legitimate paths to the creator just as much as Christianity. I don't think God makes a distinction based on what we call him/her or think he/she/it is. I believe we are judged by works and not grace. How we treat others, all of creation really is more important than anything else.

[crusader]

@twinertia How could any deity stop anything in the classroom when they are not allowed in the classroom.

[Sharpshooter]

GOOD POLL MARY.... This one is fair and balanced... Thanks

[stepped_in_it]

Brown nose......roflmao (just kidding)

[Sharpshooter]

@stepped_in_it LOL..... I get on Mary's case about polls plenty of times.... It's difficult to make on that covers all possible viewpoints and I think her leaning is different enough from mine that the question she forgets is the one I would choose.

I just figured to be fair and let he know when she got it right...... that and a bit of Brown nosing never hurts....

[stepped_in_it]

I would also say "allowing teachers to have guns" BUT, not all people are safe/comfortable with a gun. Banning assault weapons will not solve the problem as just about all guns are an "assault" weapon of some kind. Can't ban guns completely unless you also ban the knowledge of them, the machines to make them and the materials that make them (the cat is out of the bag)! So, I said ban the high capacity magazines. Don't see any other use for them except to massively hunt humans! But, that won't cure the problem either! 2 double action revolvers with several quick loads would have done the same carnage!

[marine1]

How about we ban parents from shirking their responsibilities to their childeren. If they sire a child,they both most be a constructive part of raising the child.

[Souljah]

@marine1 I see your point , but in the case of a war Veteran who goes to fight for his country but returns with his brain slightly askewed, hoe constructive can PTSD episodes and flashbacks be for a young adult growing up in that household? Just asking cause my cousin had thaat problem, needless to say he's not a very productive member of society today.. was that his dads fault for fighting for our freedom?.. just saying in a perfect world ALL the blame will be on the Parents who would not need to work so they can stay home and be completely enveloped in the childs development.. unfortunatley at a young age they are sent to school and begin to gather information out of the Parents control.. I doubt that in this case the young man became a mass murderer because him mom raised him wrong... but I could be mistaken

[marine1]

@Souljah yes, you could

[Souljah]

@marine1 haha .. thats your answer ..

[marine1]

@Souljah haha yes it is

[DARSB]

Rep. Louie Gohmert's ideas are exotic: one day teachers are union thugs, the next they're supposed to be heavily armed. Sheesh.

[bsking]

and so where the difference? most Union thugs are heavily armed.

[jessejaymes]

The trend in America is paying less and less to Teachers. As a result most the bible belt is paying teachers less than the national average for a worker. Many of these teacher are not credentialed. Most the right wing complains constantly about the lack of responsibility and achievement among teachers. And now you want to arm them? They're not good enough to teach your children (that's why you want vouchers right?) but they are good enough to get into firefights with heavily armed killers in body armor? You people are nuts.

[cnw95]

Gohmert also stated that there was a need to possess assault rifles to,"insure against the tierney of the government".
If he can make a case for a civilian to possess a military weapon,could he also make a case to possess other military weapons...ie; an M60A2 with LIVE SABOT rounds,an RPG, a LIVE IED or claymore mine???
What about LIVE grenades???
I wonder if gohmert thinks these are acceptable possessions under the 2nd amendment???

[Patriot-Pirate]

@jessejaymes I approve of the vouchers actually. If we allow the Government to own the monopoly on education, they will continue to mis-manage and regulate it into failure. Everyone knows that private schools provide the best overall education, but who can afford it? As far as arming teachers they would need to be well trained and proficient, and I think that one difficult career is enough. BTW private teachers make more money than public because the free market and competition along with their competence set their wages.

[jessejaymes]

@Patriot-Pirate b You can say what you like. This is America and we still have a tiny bit of free speech left. But my free speech says that vouchers are an end run around segregation and a clear indication of the racism that remains in America. And I am a white senior citizen.

[DerivePI]

Allowing teachers to conceal carry a gun with special training seems like a great idea to me (I trust teachers to use their best judgement regarding this). The only other regulation that would have helped would be a requirement to securely store weapons when not in use (other than the loaded pistol under your pillow). The 10 cartridge limit seems arbitrary and only useful for erroding our right to protect ourselves.

[jessejaymes]

Most teachers are women. Good luck with arming and training these women. Many are in their very early 20's and many are approaching retirement. How about locking down the school with only one entrance accessible from the outside and putting two armed combat trained guards outside that entrance. Wouldn't it make sense for them to confront someone in body armor and armed to the teeth OUTSIDE the school?

[Drake_Burrwood]

@jessejaymes
-- Statistics show if I've heard correctly that a woman with CCW save four times as many lives as a man. Since this creates the impression among rogue predators that there is an uncertain danger targeting the fair sex. Most of the lives saved are things that happen less in those areas.

--I'm 6 foot over 200 lb look like a grizzled old wolf, I don't carry to protect me, I carry to protect my family, my community, my neighbors (ie those around me), and even those rogue predators who might not take me at face value. But just because I look the way I do I'm less likely to be targeted. Except by other leashed predators.:-)

--No person should ever be forced to carry.
-If they have shown no sign they can't cope they should be able to keep.
-They should be able to bear; hunting defence, sport, theater, re-creation, etc.; based on "Local" safety regulations and training requirements.
-Carry concealed; subject to direct criminal record, and HIPA waived mental health history.
-Posse 'Comitas'; during disaster under direct civil control. See CERT fire arms training.
--- etc.

[jessejaymes]

@Drake_Burrwood Well none of that changes my belief that there are an awful lot of senior males out there with beer bellies and an attitude that should not be carrying in public. I don't need your help, my family doesn't need your help and I don't us to be caught in your cross fire playing Wyatt Earp. I own guns, I am responsible to those guns and I will defend my family. Beyond that we don't need cowboys making the decision for me and my family and I won't for you and yours.

[Drake_Burrwood]

@jessejaymes
The problem is a uniform makes you a target. It isn't I wouldn't do it but the chances are good unless real restructuring was done we would both be killed. If we were lucky we might kill or injure (slow down) the "Active shooter" after our mortal injuries. Even more important this would trigger the Lock-down AND Withdrawal of the facility occupants. See; Active Shooter: FEMA independent studies program.

[jessejaymes]

@Drake_Burrwood there is no point in this debate. You're not budging in your belief that old men with limited reflexes, poor sight, poor hearing and a lifetime of institutionalized biases are not prone to making bad decisions with a gun. I say they are. I am old. I know better and I sincerely hope the day never comes when my families lives depend on me or someone my age. I will do my best but unlike most of the senior redneck right wing cowboys out there I understand my limitations.

[Chromalord]

Look, Idealistically, I wish there weren't any guns at all. But I have to live n the world Im in today. There are small isolated regions in the country where its mandatory to own a gun to acquire a deed to a home. In those regions, home burglaries are virtually non-existent. Now, I am not equating the act of mentally impaired person to that of a common thief, but what is common to both is premeditation and planning. If it known that the staff of a school is armed and has been trained, I cant imagine that wouldn't at least contribute to deterrence. Of course there will never be a 100% effective safeguard against acts of lunacy, but perhaps every little bit may help?

[Chromalord]

I also have to ask, why are not all school equipped with metal detectors? Or even scanning devices on entrance gates? Scanners have come a long way, and they can be finely tuned to pick up larger pieces of weaponry.

[Food4thoughts]

Yes we should solve our school shootings by arming all principals with M4's.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

I with the thinking that if the principal at Sandy Hook school had access to a gun Adam Lanza would be swimming with the fishes right now, and many if not all of those poor beautiful babies would still be alive.

Gun free zones don't work. I hear you liberals, I hear your criticisms. Let me explain why. Law abiding people are the only ones who follow the law. It is the criminals who violate the law. That's why they are called criminals. They won't abide by a gun free zone, they don't abide by the law. So basically liberals, you'd end up disarming the good people while the bad people are still armed. I say we definitely need to end all gun free zones, and good citizens should be allowed to carry a weapon wherever they need protection, NO IF, AND, or BUT.

Oh, btw, it would also help if America got back to a society whose values centered around family instead of material possessions and special rights.

[mtkopf]

Oh, btw, it would also help if America got back to a society whose values center around family instead of material possessions and special rights.

Your last paragraph actually contradicts everything you said up to that point. You say that the right to have a weapon is more important than the rights of thousands of families that are torn apart due to gun violence every year. You say that your semi automatic rifle with a thirty round clip is more important than the life of a six year old child.
Your material possessions, guns, and your rights to own said guns, are more important than the lives of the children who will be killed today, next week, next month, etc.
Don't you see the contradiction?

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

@mtkopf - You're right. So if we ban all guns today, will we have no more gun related violence in this country? Please tell that would be true.

[hwyangel]

@mtkopf

You can go to YouTube and get step by step instructions on how to build your own gun and ammo. Of course most law abiding, tax paying citizens neither have the desire or time.

[mtkopf]

@Neo_NtheMatrix do you realize that there are more regulations regarding the transfer of a car than there are for the transfer of firearms?

[mtkopf]

@hwyangel and neither do the criminals. They just pay someone to go to agun show and buy forty wweapons for them.

[LGRepublican]

Sorry folks, if a psychopath is set on killing, they're going to find a way to do it. These "gun laws" being proposed are nothing more than emotional reactions to a tragic incident. We've tried "bans" in the past, does prohibition ring a bell? How'd that work out? If you really want to try and make an impact, make sure that those who commit crimes using guns are prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Focus in the criminal, not the firearm.

[Thunderchicken]

Amen.

[DerivePI]

We should ban terrorism

[Republican5001]

Here here. Gun just a tool. Focus on the criminal. Thanks to the liberals and democrats glorifying the criminal element, lifestyle and taking God out of everything, people respect life and death less.

[hwyangel]

I second that Amen.

[jessejaymes]

Little tough to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law when the shooter kills themselves and most do.

[Dan_Tien]

I think that is important not to rush into new legislation because of gut reactions to recent shootings. The Patriot Act was thrown together and passed amid national panic. Is everyone happy with it?

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

I like your more conservative better than your liberal side. Good post!

[WilliamWallace]

Quit saying stuff I agree with. It's hard to vote you up. Lol

[Dan_Tien]

Should I point out that the Columbine High School massacre was perpetrated with weapons that were banned at the time by the Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act?

[Jeff_Woehrle]

I think the 'gun-free zone' signs near schools need to be bigger. That will solve the problem at minimal cost and disruption. We all know that murderers will always obey the law, so it must be that the 'gun-free zone' signs are simply not large enough.

[crusader]

Excellent point of sarcasm.
If you look it up you will see that most who commit school shootings commit an excess of 10 felonies in addition to the actual shootings. So what is just one more broken law?
Concerning Adam Lanza's mother. I have nothing against having guns, but don't tell me that a bushmaster is for home defense. Nobody needs 30 round magazines and the ability to shoot 500 yards to protect their home. She was a gun enthusiast which is okay with me but I think it would be in every gun enthusiasts best interest to buy a gun safe. Keep out a revolver or shotgun as home defense and lock up the rest. That would not only stop children from getting them but would stop thieves who break in while the homeowners are gone. Guns are a primary target for thieves as they are easily sold.

[Jeff_Woehrle]

@crusader Agree. The anti-gun hysterics from the left is simply a reaction from fear and ignorance...kind of like book burning back in the day. The absurd prospect that the passage of additional laws will somehow turn criminals away from criminal behavior is laughable, and betrays the lack of deep thought coming from those who propose it.

[Thunderchicken]

Regarding banning 10+ cartridge magazines, both of my lever action rifles (John Wayne style cowboy guns) have a larger than 10 cartridge capacity.

[twinertia]

Stop fooling yourselves! Our priorities are clear: we'd rather have fifty (50) idiots shooting up a venue than one (1), and it's so much cheaper to "take care" of our mentally-impaired citizens if any of the idiots gets lucky enough to take out the original shooter. Banning weapons won't work (new Civil War); arming everyone won't work (similar body counts, but now with "friendly fire"). The only thing that'll make schools safer is to use them as server farms, and get off the factory-learning treadmill of yesteryear. As for everyone else: grin and bear it. Sometime's freedom's a bee-otch.

[SmedleyButler]

This is not a homogeneous society and we're divided looking to impose our will on everyone including the world. We should all take a page of the Israeli's and protect our kids , train the teachers and administrators in arms.

[armed_liberal]

All the guns used were purchased legally. The psycho could have carried 10 clips. Allow for 4 button gun safes in classrooms and school offices.

[bsking]

I like someone to ask Obama what was the difference between the Muslim who killed American soldiers at Fort Hood Texas and any other mass shooting? because we certainly didn't hear any gun control talk after that massacre .

[Bonnie_Blue]

Very good point!

[RoyFloyd]

For starters, the Muslim who opened fire at Ft. Hood was an active duty Army officer. I'm not sure that could have been prevented, short of disarming the U.S. military. Your solution?

[bsking]

@RoyFloyd he was the only 1 armed in that situation. do your homework before you reply to me

[RoyFloyd]

@bsking He was the only one at Ft. Hood who was armed? A weapons ban on a U.S. military base, now that's taking gun control a little too far.

[bsking]

@RoyFloyd yeah bigtime. my point is no 1 had a word to say about gun control then...not the president...congress or the state run media.

[Sharpshooter]

" If Adam Lanza had guns holding 10 bullets or fewer, "a significant number of those 20 Newtown first graders would almost certainly be alive," writes the Atlantic's Robert Wright."

Nothing like starting the day with a nice steamy cup of stupidity.... Thanks Bobby.

I love when a second rate cub reporter on a marginally respected magazines attempt at a news website demonstrates his high school journalism skills.

BOBBY.... ever hear of reloading? It's sort of like putting another sheet of paper in a printer when you only had ten and you need to print eleven pages of your mindless ramblings.

20 kids would mean reloading ONCE.... about 8 seconds for a fumbling boob, 2 seconds for someone who knows what they are doing.

8 SECONDS....

It is thought that Lincoln said "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." In your case Abe would have added "...and only a complete ass would commit it to writing."

We need to look to the real cause of these horrific CRIMES.

We KNOW that gun control doesn't work, I have posted a long list of the failed attempts.

I know there has to be an answer but I have YET to hear from any of the gun control advocates here as to why they insist on beating their heads against a brick wall, knowing it's not going to fall rather than exploring another possible cause.

[mtkopf]

You say that the shooter only had to reload a10 round clip once. Do you realize that each victim all 26 of them were shot multiple times. On the children the m.e. examined, they were shot a minimum of 3 times and a max of 11 times. If the shooter only shot each victim one time, he would need three clips. But also the shooter would have to take a little more time to aim and fire at each individual victim instead of standing and spraying bullets randomly at victims, which is what mass shooters tend to do.

[Sharpshooter]

@mtkopf Let's REALLY put this in perspective... You get your 10 shot magazine law in effect.

NOW The asshole goes into a school with ten shots.....

Exactly how many dead kids are an acceptable number for you to consider your law a success?

Five? that's only two per child.....

Three? Two little boys and One girl with three shots apiece and one left over for the asshole to kill himself?

Maybe only TWO... a little boy and little girl with five shots each sound good?

I know.... just ONE.... that would be a huge success, probably even get Diane Feinstein a Cabinet Position..... Sure... only one dead child. Do you want to pick which one or do we leave that to chance?

NOW.... how about you answer my question....

Why do you insist on beating your heads against a brick wall, knowing it's not going to fall rather than exploring another possible cause.

Or is the one kid option acceptable to you?

[mtkopf]

@Sharpshooter kind of like Boehner not caving on raising taxes on the rich? Yeah
the GOP is really standing their ground on that topic.
Let me ask you a question: why do you and the rest of the GOP refuse to even TALK about sensible gun control?
Besides gun control, we need to address mental health issues so open your wallet again we need more money for that.
The difference between me and you is that I would happily give up my guns right this second if it could bring back just one child. You prefer to keep sacrificing children all in the fight to retain your beloved guns.

[Sharpshooter]

@mtkopf So I'll take that as another NO ANSWER..... Boehner and Taxes? I would be happy to talk about Sensible gun control, but such a thing does NOT exist.... How about these attempts...

National Firearms Act 1934, enacted in response to the gangsters of the 1920s..... result, FAILED.

Gun Control Act 1968 enacted in response to the JFK Assassination passed on skids greased by the blood of Dr. King and Robert Kennedy. result FAILED

Firearms Owners Protection Act, banning Machine guns.... result.... FAILED.

Clinton Assault rifle ban including hi capacity magazines... result FAILED

Shall I continue to list the state laws as well?

"You prefer to keep sacrificing children all in the fight to retain your beloved guns."
Pure BULLSHIT..... I just asked about YOUR first recommendation for gun control...

You never did tell me how many children killed by a gun with YOUR recommended 10 shot magazine are acceptable?

It amazes me that people would rather continue to have mass shootings where innocent men, women, and children die then even discuss solutions to the problem...

I'll ask again....

Why would you rather continue to have mass shootings where innocent men, women, and children die then recognize the solid facts proving gun and/or ammo restrictions DON'T WORK.

Why should your new angle on the same thing be any more successful than the countless failed attempts we've experienced?

Why are YOU so resistant to looking to find the REAL problem and solve that?

[Momx4]

Allowing teachers to have guns? Really? How smart is it to have guns around children! GUN CONTROL! Put a no sell on anything that holds a clip or assault rifles! No guns in the hands of "just anybody" would put an end to this type violance! Wake up people! This shows how IGNORANT and backwoods Americans are!

[Momx4]

@Bonnie_Blue And because you live "woods" you need an assault rifle? or a gun with a clip holding more than 6? Made my point ;)

[Thunderchicken]

@Momx4

The fact the we already have adequate gun control laws points to your ignorance. Not just anybody can buy a gun legally.

Secondly, guns around children are not a problem when supervised properly. My children always knew about my guns and when they became old enough to shoot, they were taught how to.

Now about the clip remarks, you again show your ignorance.

[Bonnie_Blue]

@Momx4 You're damn right I do, and the only point you've made is proving how ignorant you are about gun control.

[Momx4]

@Thunderchicken . Gun control laws, yes we do have, but they arent tough enough! And if you feel like teaching your children how to USE a gun is smart , well Im sure Nancy Lanza thought the SAME way you are when she tought her son Adam Lanza how to use a gun and had them around him also. But thank you for your 2cents thunderchicken.

[Your_Name_Here]

Any intelligent person knows that guns are not the problem. A truckload of fertilizer and some box cutters accomplished Oklahoma City and 9/11. Could someone with a gun have prevented this tragedy? I don't know but I've read numerous reports of police firing off many rounds without hitting their target and without their target hitting them. For the record I am a combat veteran and was one of the top shooters in the Marines back in 1971. Unless you live in a war zone on a daily basis you don't have the mentality to react to this situation that comes up out of the blue. The police are not much better off because they are not in a war zone every day either. He could have been taken out with a rifle but there was no time. He could have been taken out with a handgun but he was ready to kill and the handgun owner would not have been. You have to ask what has changed in society during the last 50 years or so to give people this mindset. What are they reacting to? Click on debates or issues. Jobs, economy, other people's rights, religion, money, road rage, government, war, letting criminals go free? I have problems with this bandaid gun control answer whenever people want to put the blame on something without looking for the real problem. So what happens when you pass more gun laws? The psychos are still out there, you are ignoring them while they scour the Internet learning how to make improvised explosive devices. Your flawed logic will divert resources away from the real problem and allow it to happen again. Next time it may be YOUR kid on the school bus that explodes. That's right, no guns this time but the end result is the same, isn't it?

[WMCOL]

Make guns more available to law-abiding sound minded people, including teachers.

Allow licensed carry in more places, and the biggest solution is to get behind Obamacare as a mechanism to address mental health in this country so that scenes like Newtown, Columbine, and others don't happen.

The tree shooter was known and confirmed to be mentally unstable but yet his mother did not make guns inaccessible to him in the house where they both lived.

She knew what he was capable of because she gathered up all the knives and sharp instruments and ferretted them away in a Tupperware container to keep him frrom having access to them. She even instructed the other children to take refuge in a locked vehicle to avoid harm from her sick son. So she knew, but did nothing to keep guns away from him.

Obamacare is the solution. Education and treatment. Nip it in the bud, a mental health epidemic that is getting out of hand.