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PLAN G

Tennessee May Soon Arm School Teachers

State senator proposes a bill to equip educators with guns

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by Dain Fitzgerald

Staff Writer t

Image: doddtraining.com

In news sure to ruffle the feathers of some, Tennessee is opting to embrace guns rather than shy away from them following last week's massacre.

Tennessee State Sen. Frank Niceley (R) plans to introduce a bill in the next legislative session that would authorize the state to pay for secretly armed school staff on K-12 campuses. Niceley's got the ear of Tennessee Governor Bill Haslam, a fellow Republican, who's open to the idea as "part of his discussions about how to prevent a shooting like the one in Newtown from happening in the Volunteer State," as Talking Points Memo reports.

Niceley elaborates on the reason for his proposal:

Say some madman comes in. If he doesn't know which teacher has training, then he wouldn't know which one had [a gun]. These guys are obviously cowards anyway and if someone starts shooting back, they're going to take cover, maybe go ahead and commit suicide like most of them have.

No teacher would be made to pack heat if they didn't want to, Niceley assured TPM. Educators trained in firearm use would be volunteers, and would carry their own weapons to school.

Via Talking Points Memo.
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Is it a good idea to arm school teachers?

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Comments (view in Forum)

  • u
    sylehrman
    !
    You obviously have little experience with schools. Having been in the business for many years it seems to me that most school teachers will not be trusted with a slide projector so who is going to issue them pistols? If I can't smack a kid who is abusive and rude who am I supposed to shoot with the gun? I know a teacher who was fired in Arkansas for breaking up a fight so who is he supposed to shoot? There are countless children who come from homes where nothing is expected of them except to watch TV and eat, am I supposed to shoot them for being lazy or foolish? What possible rationale could there be for brandishing a gun in a classroom?
  • PNWest
    !
    @sylehrman This is a wonderful idea. Hopefully they'll arm and train these teachers and turn them all into human killing machines. That's a much better idea then having them try to educate the students of Tennesee. Then when the GOP goes after the Teacher's Union the killer teachers will be properly trained to take out the threats. If only we had killer teachers in my day. I can picture dear old Mrs. Snowden now sighting in an AK47 in case someone came to class late. Great job Tennessee!
  • Calfkiller
    !
    @sylehrman Show me the headline that says all teachers in TN will be forced to carry weapons. Then maybe you will have a leg to stand on. If you hate war because you scare easily that is your problem. There are three teachers at my daughters high school that are veterans. One of Desert Storm, one of Iraq, one of Afghanistan. The principal is a veteran of Desert Storm as well as Iraq. So get your emotions by the balls and think it through before you start blaring your emotionally compromised arguments. I went to school with the P.E. teacher who is fanatical about hunting wild pigs. I'm a gun nut and the level of violence involved in using dogs to hunt wild pigs is kinda extreme even for me. My point he knows how to handle a weapon. The problem in this country is the effeminization of men. Your experience with schools is commendable however in Tennessee men know how to be men.
  • Calfkiller
    !
    @PNWest don't get excited PN. i'll out argue either of you getting an ally won't help you. If you are happy with things in OR that is your problem not mine. If the next tragedy is in Oregon and I honestly pray it is not anywhere, you can look to us for and example.
  • PNWest
    !
    @Calfkiller We had a gun nut killer at a mall near Portland about a week before this last gun tragedy. Gun nuts are everywhere. Arming teachers as a solution is something that the people of Tennessee would come up with. Why don't you just post the 10 commandments at the front door of the school? That will probably be about as effective. I am very happy with the way my life is in Oregon. It is a wonderful place to live and I consider myself blessed, even when I am shoveling the damn snow!

  • View all 33 replies >

  • Neo_NtheMatrix
    !
    I say Amen, hallelujah to this idea. I know liberals will equate this to just putting more guns out there, but it's not. We can't make it harder for criminals to get guns, they already have them. Let's make those guns they have less effective by arming good citizens. Crime rates would drop drastically if it weren't just the parasites of society that had weapons. Could you imagine what the world would look like today if Germany were the only country that had weapons back during WWII? If we only arm the bad guys, the bad guys will rule the world.
  • marine1
    !
    The fact that the possibility that defense weapons exist in a school, might make a person think twice before trying to cause harm?
  • Biter
    !
    Umm The answer to gun massacres is what..... Guns in the hands of our children's educators? You have to laugh at the utter stupidity of the idea. Do you realise how many teachers suffer mental breakdowns every year? Do you the educators want to carry guns?
  • Dan_Tien
    !
    I just saw a local news report that had an interview with a man who was carrying concealed at the Clackamas Mall last week when the shooting happened. He pulled his Glock after hearing the first shots and made eye contact with the shooter, but backed off into a store when the shooter started to turn toward him. He explained lots of good reasons why he didn't shoot the murderer. I'm not sure what to think about this, since the man was carrying for his own protection, not for everyone else's, but it does reinforce my sense that arming teachers is not the solution to preventing a repeat of the school massacre. It's one thing to carry a gun, but a totally different thing to shoot someone. I'm not convinced that many teachers would be able to stop an intent and suicidal shooter who does not hesitate to shoot first. Allowing teachers to carry guns in schools may just create more tragedies that they prevent.
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    It works in Israel....

    They live in a world surrounded by terrorists sworn to kill as many Jews as possible but somehow don't seem to have the problems with these CRIMINAL ACTS.

    An armed guard in the school resolves the Wack Job issue quite well.... The sane ones stay out because the Guard is capable of punching his ticket to hell and the real crazies just get punched tickets.

    "Clean up in room 222." and it's done.
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    @PoliticalSpice AND your point is? OH I know..... GUNS ARE EVIL.

    I asked this question yesterday and received some rambling disconnected jibberish about Bohner and the budget as the only response. To the credit of the our resident hoplophobes I haven't see Bush blamed yet but I also have not received a cogent reasoned response to the question.

    This isn't the meaning of life or the mystery of the ages but it seems as though no answer exists...

    Here it is....

    Why do hoplophobes so strongly resist the possibility of ANYTHING other than guns to be the cause of problems?

    Semi automatic rifles have been commonly available to the civilian market since the 1930s.

    The AR15/M16 available to the civilian market since the 1960s with high capacity magazines (30 rounds) following within a year.

    Pistols with high capacity magazines since the 1930s with the 13 shot Browning High Power available in 1935.

    The Thompson Sub-Machine Gun was sold in HARDWARE STORES in the 1920s with 100 round magazines available.

    All of this technology existed for a very long time before these CRIMINAL acts have began to appear.

    If the technology existed and the CRIMES didn't, what changed and why wouldn't you want to focus on that rather than another failed attempt to control something that OBVIOUSLY isn't the problem?

    We've tried gun control, it hasn't worked.

    National Firearms Act 1934, enacted in response to the gangsters of the 1920s..... result, FAILED.

    Gun Control Act 1968 enacted in response to the JFK Assassination passed on skids greased by the blood of Dr. King and Robert Kennedy. result FAILED

    Firearms Owners Protection Act, banning Machine guns.... result.... FAILED.

    Clinton Assault rifle ban including hi capacity magazines... result FAILED

    Shall I continue to list the state laws as well? Gun control has been tried.... it DOESN'T WORK.

    Tell me...Why are YOU resistant to addressing all of the issues?

    It amazes me that people would rather continue to have mass shootings where innocent men, women, and children die then even discuss solutions to the problem...

    It further amazes me that people would rather continue to have mass shootings where innocent men, women, and children die then recognize the solid facts proving gun and/or ammo restrictions DON'T WORK.

    Why would any reasoned person think a new angle on a strategy with an almost 100 YEAR history of failure would be any more successful than the countless failed attempts we've experienced?

    The crux of the question is simply, WHY do you so steadfastly insist on following that strategy rather than even considering other possibilities?

    NOW my prediction...... there will be no direct answer to the question.... anyone wonder why?
  • Post Removed by Moderators
  • o
    Sharpshooter
    !
    @PoliticalSpice SEE...... No answer to the question,.... instead a textbook example of the "when you have no intelligent response; discredit the questioner." tactic.

    I don't need xanax, my question was clear, concise and cogent. As you seem unable to comprehend.. perhaps you should speak with your doctor about upping your dose of Aricept... don't wait for obamacare to kick in, you need it now.

    But thanks for your response lending support to my conclusion....
  • PoliticalSpice
    !
    @Sharpshooter your conclusion was 100% wrong. You have no clue ad to my position pn gun control or the second amnd. And what I said still stands. My post commented on a proposal to arm teachers, said simply that the weapons stolen and used to commit these shootings, were stolen from an armed teacher. I will double romneys offer, I will bet you $20,000 that you can not find any quote or language or statement made me that supports gun control.

  • View all 9 replies >

  • Calfkiller
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    absolutely. Get rid of all of the panty waist's in this country and keep us safe at the same time. Sounds good to me!
  • Drake_Burrwood
    !
    First; there is already a model for civilian training since they probably be carrying sidearms.
    Second; if you want a military model that would required the federal government changing current statute on militia training for the state.

    Second; I've never seen that term P.W. spelled before, was a totally different origin them I thought.

  • View all 10 replies >

  • Calfkiller
    !
    That makes me proud to be a Tennesseean. Just as we were never fully conquered in the Civil War, we will not be run over by the ills of our Secular society. Cali. and New York can whine all they want about everything that makes them feel 'icky' we will actually do something about it.
  • Calfkiller
    !
    @Dan_Tien No we didn't. apparently you liked my lesson on the second amendment. So i'll give you one on the Civil War. During the Civil War there were large parts of TN that where unable to be occupied by the North. There was a succesful guerrilla campaign that was waged in TN that prevented the North from fully occupying TN. Even as Sherman was marching to the sea large areas of TN were independently defended against Yankee incursion. So you can focus on that sentence if you like. The reality is that the Secular agenda that is failing the rest of the county is and will be circumvented in the great state of Tennessee.
  • Dan_Tien
    !
    @Calfkiller In World War 2, large swathes of Japanese held islands were bypassed in MacArthur's island hopping campaign, because attacking them would have created massive American casualties without appreciably advancing the war toward ultimate victory. The Nazi blitzkreig into France bypassed their heavily defended Maginot Line and conquered the country in short order. Sherman did the same thing. He passed by areas that didn't need to be assaulted in his strategy to finish the war quickly and win it. When Lee gave up, Tennessee's "succesful guerrilla campaign" ended. The remaining Confederate soldiers would have been annihilated if they had continued to hold out, and they knew it. You are welcome to maintain your self-serving interpretation of events though.

    By the way, I used to know a young man who grew up on a hippie commune in rural Tennessee. He was the one who warned me about radical animal rights activists in his home state who took up rifles and went "hunting for hunters" to protect game animals. That was back in 1993. Apparently, not everyone in Tennessee believes the way that you do.
  • PayThatCEO
    !
    @Calfkiller

    Who gives two sh*ts what happened over 200 years ago? This is the UNITED States of America, in case you hadn't heard. We're ONE nation. Maybe if we all start acting like it our kids will be a lot happier.
  • jessejaymes
    !
    They have armed guards in Israel OUTSIDE the schools. Which i support. But while you're lauding Israel tell the people the rest of the story. They have severe gun control for the general population with the two exceptions being private security and those who live in the settlements outside of the control of the Army. Those who have guns are checked thoroughly and their license has to be renewed yearly. No 20 year old in Israel is allowed a gun since you must be 27 years old to get a gun permit unless you are in the Military and that starts at 21. You ready for Israel's gun policy? I'm not.
  • Calfkiller
    !
    Not the gun control policy that i'm for. I'm for mandatory military service as in Israel,Switzerland, Finland, and many more. The poster that used Israel as an example is a rabid liberal, and used them as an example due to the knee jerk response libs tend to have against Israel choosing to be pro palestinian more often than not.
  • Neo_NtheMatrix
    !
    Criminals: 1
    Law abiding citizens: 0
    Conservatives: Give the law abiding citizens 1 and even it up.
    Liberals: How can more guns be the solution?
  • u
    Cheenoguy
    !
    @Neo_NtheMatrix
    Yeah because the good guys never screw up with their guns and hurt themselves or someone else.
    Crossfire will surely miss the children right?
    It amazes me how, based on your comments, you never have confidence in teachers to do their job and teach, but somehow you think that they should be policemen.
    Why not do what my old highschool did after Columbine and give a cop a patrol of the school? Instead of being there to harrass the kids, however, use them to protect the students.
    How many shootings do you hear of using fully automatic weapons? Very very few. You know why? They are incredibly difficult to get for legal gun owners making it even more difficult to get illegally. We need to not only make it illegal to buy a semi-automatic we need to make it illegal to own one. They are designed for killing many people quickly. They have no place in a civilized society aside from for the military.
  • Neo_NtheMatrix
    !
    @Cheenoguy - Arming a teacher, a principal, or a security guard is all the same thing in my book. What I'm ultimately saying is someone at the school needs to be armed to be a deterrent. Exactly who you want to entrust with that responsibility is another discussion. Someone should be there on the side of the children to make sure if some distraught mentally impaired psychopath comes into the school with the intent of harming people he can be stopped quickly.
  • Drake_Burrwood
    !
    Come on guys get your terms straight.
    •Automatic; one of a set of firearms that automatically reloads the chamber with a around.
    •Semi-automatic; an automatic that fires one around each at each pull of the trigger.
    •fully automatic; an automatic that either fires as long as the trigger is pulled, it has ammo or is set to limited bursts.
    •Assalt Rifle; a small calibre high volume [both powder, and auto cycle], stalker weapon designed by the US military wound 180 lb man.
  • u
    mtkopf
    !
    This was a sheriff s deputy. He is bound to act. Just like my brother who is a deputy also. If he witnesses a crime he is bound to take action. Just like my wife who as a nurse
    Must stop at an accident and render medical assistance til help arrives.
    He's a professional with extensive training not some Wyatt Earp wannabe who goes out and plays cops and robbers once aonth at the gun range.
  • Jean
    !
    @mtkopf I am not advocating for someone "untrained" to be in the schools....what i would like to see is teachers volunteer and take training and / or retired police or sheriff in the schools.
  • Jean
    !
    @mtkopf the other point of my post is that when faced with another gun rather than a "gun free zone" there is a lot less carnage.
  • u
    mtkopf
    !
    @Jean let me repeat what a professional law enforcement officer said. Chicago police superintendent Gary McCarthy said that officers get intensive training for six months in the academy. They then get another six months training on the street. And then continuing training throughout their careers. And you know what? He admitted they still make mistakes.
    So how much training do these teachers get?
    Eight hours. Sixteen hours. Whatever is not enough.
  • Jean
    !
    @mtkopf i will take a "somewhat" trained armed person for defense of our children than no defense at all. the real problem here is the mental illness and the lack of funding. a person who works in this field today from North Carolina called in today and she stated that there were 9,000 people under mental care in their state that would be basically turned out onto the streets come january because of funding cuts in the "system".

  • View all 7 replies >

  • MongoAPillager
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    @mtkopf gets your facts straight fast and furious is present administrations baby, bush's program was ended but the guns were easily traceable,fast furious not so much

  • View all 6 replies >

  • u
    mtkopf
    !
    This is a horrible idea!
    A gunman, like the idiot on Friday, bursts into a school wearing body armor and firing a semi auto rifle capable of discharging 45 rounds/ minute. The lives of all of those children are going to hinge on a novice with a handgun. That's about the dumbest freakin thing I have ever heard. Especially since professionals have said it would be an almost impossible shot.
  • Huntfoodfish
    !
    You have been misinformed. I am not a professional marksman, but quite a shot, nonetheless. Body armor would certainly reduce the likelihood of penetration, but if hit, which would be easy enough for a novice, would take on several hundred pounds of force, at least making the gunman lose his balance. Then, a follow-up lethal shot could be applied. With just a little practice, most people could deliver a head shot initially. I'll say that either way, teachers could have shut him down way early in his mission had some of them been adequately armed. Now you can qoute me, a guy who knows, in your future posts.
  • u
    mtkopf
    !
    @Huntfoodfish I'm sorry but as you say you are NOT a professional. I will take the word of a retired secret service agent, an FBI agent, Chicago police superintendent Garry McCarthy, and my brother, a army veteran and law enforcement officer. As a matter of fact, the only people who think its not that difficult of a shot are as you say not professionals.
  • Drake_Burrwood
    !
    Firing through a door at someone trying to break in and kill you and your students is not a difficult shot. Firing down the Length of a hall at a long arm wielding predator. That is a hard shot. Choosing one type of shot out of dozens means little.
  • stepped_in_it
    !
    Yeah, this is my "home" state. Just what we needed, a teacher, without training, most likely will "freeze" and armed. Next, a student will get the gun from the teacher and boom!
    Hope they give those wanting to CCW a CCW class that they have to renew yearly (at school expense). if not, we are looking at the next "thing"....
  • jessejaymes
    !
    Oh yeah this is gonna work. 68 year old Bertha Looper is going to haul out her cannon and start blasting because she's the only one in that wing of the school who is armed. Over in the south wing we have pretend history teacher Billy Joe "Bubba" Jones who is actually a 475 lb offensive line football coach who is just itching to shoot half the pantywaist boys who don't play football anyhow. With a whole luck Bertha and Bubba will shoot each other and miss the kids. Good Lord save us from the idiots.
  • jessejaymes
    !
    To understand how bad of an idea this is look at the two people in the picture. the "trainer" is about what? 60-65? With the reflexes of a dead cow. Three days dead. the "student" may well be the cow. I don't want the kids to be protected by the likes of these. Bite the bullet and put out the money for a couple of urban combat security OUTSIDE the only unlocked door during class hours. Give the kids a snowball's chance in hell.
  • twinertia
    !
    You made me spill my chocolate milk laughing so hard, with the "reflexes of a dead cow" line. You owe me one (1) new sock.
  • u
    mtkopf
    !
    As a vet I was just talking to an active duty soldier and said the same thing. We both agreed its a bad idea. I'm all for giving gets jobs but, I see too many instances of PTSD during my volunteer work at Hines va hospital. Thank you for thinking about the vets tho.
  • o
    Antiecm
    !
    It's about time. Finally, safe schools, even if only in one state, but I am sure that many will follow. The ONLY way to deter gun violence is with the threat of another gun.
  • u
    RobertJHarsh
    !
    Whoa. A "secret" security staff? I didn't even think of that. That would be better than my gun lock box/break glass idea. Ohio should immediately implement such a plan.
  • Jeff_Woehrle
    !
    Excellent plan! The 'gun-free zone' has been a colossal failure. Time to stop the sitting duck mentality of packing our children into buildings with nothing but a worthless sign to protect them.
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