Atheists Attack Christmas Ceremony In Arizona

Claims local government publicly espouses Christianity

The use of biblical imagery in an Arizona Christmas lighting ceremony has prompted letters of protest from the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation. The letters, sent to Prescott town officials and Arizona's secretary of state, Ken Bennett, demand future lightings refrain from suggesting citizens to "praise God for the birth of Jesus."

The ceremony, which takes place annually at a local courthouse, caught the attention of the foundation after a member attended. Andrew Seidel, staff attorney for the organization, said he also watched videos of children singing religious songs and Bennett reading from the Bible.

"The government is all the people, not just Christian people. To have the government espouse a particular religious belief is so far out of bounds..." Seidel told the Prescott Daily Courier.

The organization said it doesn't want the ceremony to end, but to become more secular.

Local officials, however, don't show any signs of changing the ceremony soon. Yavapai County Supervisor Tom Thurman said he doesn't see a harm in a Christmas ceremony at the Prescott courthouse. Attendance, he told the Courier, is a matter of choice.

Via the Prescott Daily Courier

Should Christmas ceremonies be entirely devoid of religious references?

[Sonny]

Christmas is a holiday under the Christian Faith. I think Christians should celebrate it anyway they see fit...Where I draw the line is when some public official promotes this or any religion over any other...Citizens can (and should) do as they like---Elected public officials have to represent ALL of the people...ALL of the time---and some things might not be appropriate to say during an event.

[woodtick57]

Ramen...there is a reason people have churches, to contain their myths.

[jessejaymes]

I consider reading from the bible by public officials to be promoting Christianity over all religions. And since I believe all organized religion to be crock I suggest that we rename Christmas to National retailer's day and be done with it.

[EMS_Servant]

Christmas was organized and appointed in the 4thbeginning century by the Catholic church to celebrate the birth of the Christ Jesus of Nazareth so if you are having a Christmas ceremony of any lind you it involves Jesus just the same as Independence day has no meaning without our founding fathers who broke away from England to form this great country. If you don't want Jesus or God in the government then you are going to have to deny them their ceremonies as well.

[thejimbo]

@EMS_Servant Our Founding Fathers were not Christians... http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers...

[PoliticalSpice]

@jamesmitchell @jessejames
I will disappoint to friends here, but I am not an atheist, but I think some who claim to be "christian" conservatives would be shocked to learn the facts. Several of the founders were in fact atheist, i am assuming that is what the article your link takes them too says, if not I thought it worth mentioning. Governments only role in religious activity under our constitution was to keep govt out of it, period. This was no more established as a "christian" nation, then a pagan nation, muslim nation, or satanic nation.
More to the point I often find the types who proclaim this a "christian nation" to be the least christian, at in terms of the values espoused by jesus. I beleive it was the klu klux klan that were the first to burn crosses and preach hate in the name of christanity...

[Speedieg]

No but they should have ceremonies for other religions as well, something I guarantee they don't do.

[seedtick]

Not on Christmas Day.

[Freebird]

@seedtick exactly!!!' It's a Christian holdiay. We have freedom of religion too!! Don't we???! Not sure these days

[ConserveUSA]

Obama will take away Jewish Holidays!

[ConserveUSA]

@Freebird With Obama and North Korean Style Liberals, I wonder of we have any freedom.

[hwyangel]

Actually many of the Christmas traditions are secular and pagan as well as Christian. I believe that giving to the poor and singing praise to God should be no less tolerated than cutting down trees and overspending on expensive shinny baubles to decorate it with.

[Speedieg]

So I hardly find writing a letter to qualify as attack. The headline makes this sounds as if hoards of atheist stormed the building with weapons. Typical of the war on Christmas crowd.

[jamie91]

Gotta love how Christians practice free speech but atheists attack.

[woodtick57]

@jamie91 Not free, it was on the taxpayers dime. Pay for your own fairy tal story hour.

[jamie91]

@woodtick57 I was referring to when a Christian objects to something it is called free speech, and when atheists do it is attacking. I read back my answer and realized my attempt at communicating this was poorly done, I apologize.

[JoeBidumb]

Have whatever ceremony that you like and invite whatever public official that you want. Who cares? The truth of the matter is that you want to impose your views on others.

[910disaster]

"Attendance is a matter of choice." That's it in a nutshell.

[910disaster]

@ASmith Freedom of religion goes both ways. I cant force you to partake and you cant force me not to. No one but you atheist are imposing. Feel free to exit :)

[Roco]

So if I believed in, say, the "Moon religion". Will I have the chance to have a ceremony on city property and read a passage from my "Moon Bible"?

[910disaster]

@Roco Absolutley! Of course you will need the proper permits if you plan to have a crowd. No one is stopping you :)

[910disaster]

@Roco I think its so silly and short sighted of people to protest the involvment of religion in a holiday about CHRIST. Thats like me protesting the moon at your moon religion ceremony....silly

[cpeter133]

And if the next official is an atheist and celebrates santa claus, denying any religious "reason for the season?" Will it be acceptable as well?

[Denizen_Kate]

That would be a good question, but only if an atheist had a snowball's chance in the hot place of ever getting elected to office in this country.

[JoeBidumb]

Why don't you run for office as an atheist and if elected you can test out your hypothesis?

[cpeter133]

@JoeBidumb Because I don't lie and I amtials if you want to get elected not owned by a corporation, which are essentials if you want to be elected in GOP-run Indiana.

[DogLady_1]

@Denizen_Kate - Atheists don't believe in "the hot place" so it doesn't exist.

[Realthinker]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The 1st Amendment says nothing about prohibiting the free expression of Christmas in the town square, or prohibiting the participation of public officials who, like the rest of us, have the freedom to express their religion at any time and in any way. There is no such thing as "freedom from religion", nor can there be. To do so would deny the religious their 1st amendment rights.

[nonannystate]

Well said. You (unlike some others) know and understand your Constitution & Bill of Rights thru the looking glass of original intent.

[Realthinker]

@nonannystate Thank you.

[mudpike]

Every poll in the last few years say 86 % of Americans believe in God or a Supreme Power (obama don't count), so why are we allowing just 14% of the people to even have a voice ? Tah-dah - the lame stream media again .

[jamie91]

Not all people who believe in God or a Supreme Power are Christian.

[Rocker]

People can like it or not but the human civilization has always been faith based in some form.

[jamie91]

@Rocker correct, people used myths to explain this their knowledge of this planet could not explain. Now as we know more religion is fading, which is fully understandable.

[mudpike]

@jamie91 - gave you a vote up by mistake . Who mentioned ' Christian'? If believing in a Supreme Being isn't religious - name it . What do atheists believe in ? Besides attempting to force themselves on others who care nothing about them ? Why don't they simply mind their own business ? We have rights too.

[woodtick57]

hardly, the figures are getting closer to half... and diminishing every year as we as a society mature beyond myths and cults.

[Synthesis]

If its government sponsored, keep it secular. If its private, worship as much as you want!

[Dan_Tien]

Just because someone is an elected official of the government does not mean that they have to deny what they believe or espouse the beliefs of others that they do not share. That is going too far in the interpretation of separation of church and state, in my opinion.

[PNWest]

Let's put the shoe on the other foot. How many of those who support government putting up these Christian display's thought that they should ban the Islamic Cultural Center in NYC because it was too close to the twin towers? This kind of thing would be OK if all groups from the Jews to the Pastafarians have the same opportunity. As long as it favors only one religion it should not be allowed.

[JoeBidumb]

Hmmmm, help me out here. Was it the Christians or Jews that flew two airliners into the WTC killing almost 3,000 innocent people of all faiths?

[PNWest]

@JoeBidumb There are something like 1.6Billion muslims in the world today. So because some of them are terrorists the rest should be punished. Wasn't Timothy McVeigh a Christian? I know the men that founded the KKK were.

[hwyangel]

@PNWest

There are over 1200 mosques in the US and no one has protested even one peep about any of them. The protest against the mosque in NYC was because of the blatant disrespect of building it on top of the bones of the victims who lost their lives with the! name of "Allah" being shouted in their ears.
It was a slap in the face to all who mourned them. Muslims have always built mosques on the sites of their conquests.
The Koran (018:021) states:'Build a building over them (meaning the infidels)

[PNWest]

@hwyangel "There are over 1200 mosques in the US and no one has protested even one peep about any of them." That statement is false. In communities all across America people are protesting mosques being built. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/08/us/08mosque... . On the other hand I don't see any protests anywhere when a new church goes up. People are protesting when government property is used to promote a single religion. The government should not be in a position of promoting ANY religion.

[hwyangel]

@PNWest

There is just as much secular and pagan tradition in Christmas as there are Christian ones. I just don't believe that singing praise to God and giving to the poor should be less tolerated than cutting down trees and decorating them with expensive baubles. Or telling stories about Jesus as opposed to a talking snow man or flying reindeer.

[twinertia]

Bravo, FFRF! If the state's gonna be exclusionary, it's gonna hit the courts.

[stepped_in_it]

ReligionS......enough said! Include them all or exclude them all!

[WMCOL]

Public facility religion exercises where ONE citizen protests, encumbers that exercise and makes it not a free exercise of religion. Then the state can prohibit that unfree exercise of religion. As long as the religion exercise is free(no one objecting) the state does not have the right to prohibit it or interfere with it.

[Buckfan4life2]

30-40 years ago we wouldn't even be having this conversation. Very sad to see this great country being totally destroyed by the leftwing nutjobs. This is a Christian holiday and NO ONE ELSES. Where is their rights to protect it??????????

[jamie91]

Hanukkah, Yule, ashura, Kwanzaa. Christmas is only one of the holidays in December. Not even the oldest.

[woodtick57]

yes, we have come a long way since then. Glad we are getting back to our constitutional foundations. Seperation of cult and state...

[Denizen_Kate]

A small minority group wrote some letters. How is that destroying anything? Much ado about nothing much. You are wrong, however, about this being "NO ONE ELSES" holiday.

[PNWest]

Why should you be able to practice YOUR religion in a government building? Why just YOU? Either let all religions have the same right or none. No one is stopping YOU from practicing your religion in your own home or church. Why should MY tax dollars go to supporting YOUR beliefs?

[TeresaJ]

Christmas is a religious, national holiday. Others, including atheists, are free to celebrate it, but that is what it is.

Although, if you are going to be one to spread the "bah, humbug" around, you are welcome to stay out of the festivities. We don't mind.^^

As for "including others," last I checked "others" were not national holidays, although, you could try to pass Hannakah. I wouldn't mind, except, I wouldn't be celebrating it myself.

The truth is, no matter how unofficial, America is a Christian nation. We have religious liberty, and that should never, ever change, but America is historically and realistically Christian. Our history, our laws, and our national treasures all point to this fact. In any Jewish Community, they should have an emphasis on Hannakah, but the rest of us will wish them well, and celebrate Christmas.

Really, I don't think the Jewish-Americans would want the Bah Hum Bugs wrecking and commercializing their holiday the way others do Christmas, anyway.

[TeresaJ]

I was thinking, I probably wasn't direct enough with my point of passing Hannakah as a national holiday, so let me be more clear. You cannot satisfy every minority, and every little thing in a big country. You will tear it apart. But that is exactly what America is doing.

[Denizen_Kate]

@TeresaJ - Do you know the actual history of the holiday you refer to as Christmas? No disrespect intended, but please read http://www.history.com/topics/christmas .

[TeresaJ]

@Denizen_Kate No disrespect taken. ^^ I'm aware of things people try to bring up. I don't really care what the origins of some the traditions come from, the Christmas Tree last of all. God created trees, and they look pretty decorated. We use them to celebrate Christ's birth; where they came from is irrelevent. The same goes for other tradtions.

[tomincali]

whats new its written that Christians will be under attack and we see it everyday.

[Dan_Tien]

If there is a war on Christians it is only because Christians are so quick to declare wars. You can't expect your opponents not to fight back. Every religion that reveres the Old Testament spawns adherents who love to see themselves as the outcast, the victim and the martyr, since it "proves" that they are chosen by God, even if their actions provoke the attack that they suffer.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

I get so annoyed when liberals tell me there is no war on Christmas, or Christians for that matter, when it is obvious that there is. Watch your back, my fellow proud Christians. Liberals and atheists are out there, and they are hunting for us.

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

Amen to Tom Thurman for standing his ground and not letting a bunch of atheists push him around. This is not the season for us to tolerate such madness!

[woodtick57]

its a huge war. keep your stone age myths out of pur public sphere. you created churches for a reason, use them..

[Dan_Tien]

We have nothing to fear but fear itself... and the Boogeyman.

[woodtick57]

@Dan_Tien

and maybe...(echoing Church Lady's voice...)*SATANNNNN*?

[Denizen_Kate]

A small minority group writing letters is NOT A WAR. Sheesh. Get over yourself. And leave liberals out of this. I know an awful lot of Democrats who attend church regularly, and more than a few Republicans who claim to be atheists.

[MadAmerican]

Christmas is celebrated by Christians and other religions. Atheist have nothing to celebrate except pissing people off who are trying to live right and have a good time. I never hear of Athiest celebrating anything but you can sure find them screwing the constitution through the ACLU and trying to tell people how to not worship. They need to shut up and mind their own business.

[John_Matrix]

They'll probably do that as soon as all the religious morons stop pushing theory beliefs on them.

[MadAmerican]

@John_Matrix Other than the usual home visits by the local churches asking you to attend i don't see how they push their beliefs on me. The governmernment pushes taxes, other groups offer suggestions mainly through commercials. People have a brain and they know what they want and therefor can say no. Why bash when it's not your cup of tea? Just like the church that protest the soldier's funerals-I don't like that and make a choice to support the others but I do not threaten that group. They have their agenda and I have mine. Atheist always find something to bitch about and always have the ACLU in their corner for some reason.

[John_Matrix]

@MadAmerican

Don't push their views my ass. Tax codes favor you if you're married. Religious groups denying same sex marriages by imposing laws to prevent it. I can't go buy booze on Sunday here for some reason because its LAW. Religious displays on government property of a Christian nature but how do you think it'd go over if I wanted to put up a Satanic display on government property? There's all sorts of interference in peoples lives from religion, the list is endless. Between stupid laws based on bigoted and outdated beliefs I've got idiots knocking on my door spouting of crap about people rising from the dead to stories about God living on Jupiter and then when I say I'm not interested all of a sudden they act like I'm the asshole for not wanting to listen to their fairy tales. You want to have your religious ceremonies and practices, fine, I really don't care what crap you choose to believe. The constitution is quite clear in the need for a separation between church and state. A religious based ceremony on a government institution headed by a government official is an endorsement no matter how the Bible thumpers try to spin it. Keep it out of the government, that's all the atheists and people like me want.

[MadAmerican]

@John_Matrix I am not maried either but the tax codes are not based on religion other than the Amish which i think is unfair. News flash-if you worship Satan that IS a form of religion. This country was founded and based on religion. Quit blaming religion and cellebrate your life as you would like but let the others do the same. No one took away any of your rights just because you do not believe in a God, however the problem I have is that we were raised in a democracy which means mojority rules. There are more believers in God that atheist, so really your voice is just a small squeak. But the liberal judges and the ACLU have ruined democracy and taken the 10 commandments out, the lords prayer, and other moral postings out of our courtrooms and schools. And ever since this has happened crime has skyrocketed. So put your chest out real far and take the accountability for that so you can feel better about yourself. Athiest have a right to be here too, but if you hate it so bad here there's always Cuba.

[Fuchsia]

So man atheists are just sexually frustrated losers who blame others for their misery and has to steal what helps others to be happy. If they don't like Christmas, they can ignore it.

[Denizen_Kate]

PolitixMayday: Inflamatory headline. Writing a letter is not an attack. Much ado about nothing much. What did you hope to accomplish with such a title besides elicit rancorous comments?