NRA's Cops-on-Campus Idea Unlikely to Work

Does price and politics make it a non-starter?

NRA head Wayne LaPierre's suggestion that cops be placed throughout America's K-12 school system has an obvious appeal to it on security grounds. But will it work?

The collective verdict is coming in from media mavens across the webosphere, and the answer appears to be "no." One reason being cost: Matt Yglesias at Slate reckons an annual price tag of at least $5.4 billion to carry out the plan, this while spending cuts are being hotly debated on Capitol Hill. Another reason is the fact that we've already deployed the cop-on-campus strategy, and it failed to prevent both 1999's Columbine attacks and 2007's Virginia Tech massacre.

But that's not all. The unlikely realization of LaPierre's plan stems from its lack of fit with any mainstream political coalitions. Business Insider's Brett LoGiurato passes along a Venn diagram (recreated above with more clarity) by economist Justin Wolfers showing the idea's placement on the edge of realistic policy proposals. At least in the current scheme of things.

"Liberals want more gun control," states LoGiurato, "and fiscal conservatives won't like the idea of spending billions of dollars on armed security guards at every school."

Via Business Insider and Slate.

Could the NRA plan work somehow, or is it simply not feasible?

[DARSB]

I have previously posted my hope that the NRA would step up to a leading role in the national discussion about guns. I also worried that a poor word choice could upset that opportunity.

I had no expectation Wayne LaPierre would deliver a full half hour of stone crazy.

[woodtick57]

I kept fiddling with my radio dial, i thought i had mistakenly tuned into the Dr. Demento show....

[Denizen_Kate]

@woodtick57 - LOL! I remember Dr. Demento! How old are we? Sheesh.

[woodtick57]

@Denizen_Kate

I'm 48, or beyond ancient to my grandson...

[DARSB]

@woodtick57 I have bad habits older than you.

[Denizen_Kate]

@woodtick57 - Sheesh. Way to bring me down, dude. You're only 8 years older than my son. Sigh . . .

[tomincali]

has it been tried? we all have seen the foolish idea of words and signs. if cost is a problem then all in office need no security if our kids don't. kind of shows where those who are against this idea has their priorities.

[woodtick57]

maybe one day we can get our society back to where our politicians do not need armed security. Adding more guns to the problem is not the answer.

[tomincali]

@woodtick57 never going to happen.

[woodtick57]

@tomincali

It has in other countries. Sad you think the US is so unable to do what others can...I have faith that the US can do anything we really want to.

[DARSB]

There were armed officers on campus at Columbine and Virginia Tech.

[woodtick57]

@DARSB There wasa guy with a CCW near the Gabby Giffords shooting, he actually helped tackle the shooter to the ground. The shooting was done before he could do anything with his weapon...

[Poseur]

Honestly, I have heard a lot of liberals support this idea. It really isn't that expensive, would serve as further stimulus (for something that is actually useful, rather than unneeded improvements just for the sake of throwing money into the economy), and is a good start while we deal with all of the important debates about gun control and mental illness in America.

[woodtick57]

not that expensive? how much is a trained, armed, insured guard paid? how many schools in the US? Do the math.

then there is hte fact that it is just perpetuating the mentality that guns will solve our problems, which is what causes this problem in the first place.

basically, this 'solution' will make the problem worse.

[UnCommonBoston]

Wealthy counties have had police officers in middle and high schools for years. Communities that are so poor the police don't have enough money to get gasoline to patrol properly would find this expense overwhelming. There parts of the country that can be not afford to keep the schools open five days a week. This sort of additional tax burden is just too much to ask much of the country. Already many states, like Massachusetts, pay more in federal taxes than we receive in benefits, to help the poorer states. Parts of this country are very poor.

[martydotcom]

@UnCommonBoston Kind of makes you wish the Red States succession movement was real

[UnCommonBoston]

@martydotcom hmmmm, our taxes would drop and theirs would increase and in some cases, more than double. As the people who vote in much of the social programs, it doesn't bother me to help pay for it. If Texas left, the Mexican border would no longer be our issue.

[Dan_Tien]

"School districts had total expenditures of approximately $610.1 billion in 2008–09, including about $519.0 billion in current expenditures for public elementary and secondary education."

So, all that needs to be done is to take $5.4 billion or so out of the budget for education and spend it on armed guards, improving the chances that kids will survive the school day while learning less in an already less than adequate educational system.

[norezen]

Yeah and really, doesn't it seem like a good idea to have some kind of law enforcement or security at a school anyways? I'm not even talking armed mass-shooters, but just in general.

[Dan_Tien]

@norezen Some schools already do have armed guards. Two of my nephews attended a high school with a full-time police presence due to security concerns. Ideally, all schools would have dependable security, but I will quote William F. Buckley, Jr. for the second time today in regards to that: "Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive."

[WasteWater]

Republicans are always in favor of spending money on armor but nothing to fix the causes of these problems.

[norezen]

@Dan_Tien Yep. The high school I went to had police on premises at all times. That was 2-3 police for 1800 students so if the total school population falls under that ratio, maybe the cost would be prohibitive. Not a problem impossible to solve though. We could easily take some money away from war on drugs to pay for it.

[Dan_Tien]

@norezen There you go. Provide armed police guards at schools by making marijuana legal, letting people convicted of crimes involving marijuana out of jail and use the savings to prevent shootings. Any chance you are going to run for Congress? I think they could use you.

[Bonnie_Blue]

Why??

[woodtick57]

Because its an insane idea...balls out, head up the rear, blowing bubbles out your ears insane...

[PoliticalSpice]

@woodtick57 Don't know how you did it, but whatever she said to you got her deleted. Praise Jesus!

[FollowTheMoney]

Band aid...looking in the wrong direction for a solution. These nut jobs are trying to make a name for them selves. Throwing a sick tantrum to show mommy, daddy and all the mean people what will happen if they don't get their way. A cop camped out in the janitors office eating cookies isn't going to stop these freaks from killing.

[Fishbone345]

What would you suggest?

[woodtick57]

@Fishbone345 Changing the entire gun mentality in our nation.

[Fishbone345]

@woodtick57 Uh huh. Good luck with that. Got any plans?

[FollowTheMoney]

@Fishbone345 I would start with limiting media's access and ability to sensationalize these incidents. Billion dollar fines for violators and their sponsors.

[woodtick57]

@Fishbone345 We've changed the national culture on may issues throughout our history, we can do it again.

it would start with you teaching your kids that guns will not solve our problems, especially our problems with guns.... it will start with people realizing that arming everyone in the country is the logical end to this silly plan of putting armed guards in our kindercares...

[Belin]

Our school district has many city police officers on our. Campus. Our school pays for these officers though our high mil rates on our property and personal property taxes. It has seemed to work quite well!

[UnCommonBoston]

Communities that can afford to have police officers in the schools, should. They should be police officers, not security guards. Police can treat problems as crimes when appropriate. Kids need to learn how the system works and that there are consequences for your actions. The officers can deal with substance abuse problems as well. There is no way to prevent this sort of thing from happening again, it will, but we can use every reasonable measure the community can afford to keep loved ones safe

[Belin]

@UnCommonBoston
They are actual city policemen! You can see their patrol cars all over the campus.

[UnCommonBoston]

@Belin I think it is a great idea. Two police cars parken in front of the building. Officers in bullet proof vests in the school. Too bad not everyone can afford this. Would it have prevented the recent shootings, don't know

[Belin]

@UnCommonBoston
2 cars? Try 12. All of our school district is on one very large campus. Building a new high school as we speak. That way the junior high can use their existing building plus the high school. They have already been connected. We also have a very large separate fine arts building. You should see the auditorium, it's beautiful and huge. We also have an inside sports complex building. I haven't been in that new building yet. My daughter is seven. Her elementary building holds age3 pre-school through 2nd grade. Her last year in that building(that is very large also different very long hallways for each grade called pods. They have their own gymnasium in that building.). Then you have the intermediate school 3rd through 6th that encompasses 2 buildings with the sports complex between them, all three are attached. Across the street you have the jr high and high school. Two buildings connected. They have a a large gymanasim that is used for the competitive basketball. And school PE that is not done in the complex. Next school year it will only 7th through 9th grades as the high schoolers will go to their own building. There is an underground tunnal that the kis can use to safely cross the street to access other buildings they need to go to. The high school is pretty close to the elementary school. The football field and complex are behind the elementary school. Be side the elementary school, before you get to it is a large grassy area with a pavilion. That land is set aside for the fall festival and recreation use. All our districts families are allowed to use it. Last years fall festival had 13 different blow up bouncy houses and slides of different sizes and one bouncy maze. Plus all the little booths the elementary classes put together. A gocart racing area and a hay ride with plenty of room left for kids to run and play. You can use the facilities at the football complex building. They keep it immaculate. They also sell really good food at the end of that building that is also the snack bar at the football games and track meets. As you can deduce from my description, it is a huge campus. That's why 12 armed city police officers with their cruisers parked all over the place. No one will know if they're going to run in straight into a police officer.

[UnCommonBoston]

@Belin Wow, that sounds awesome. I like the idea of tunnels. There are lot's of those in DC connecting govt office buildings. I am just a bit envious, many expensive private schools don't have it so good! What is most impressive is that the people choose this, this sort of thing only happens when there is a push from the community. Taxes are raised to pay for it, but I think it is worth it. So do you and your neighbors. I often think we live in the world we create. We have more input than people think.:-)

[RobertJHarsh]

I think it could work, but some engineering would be needed to handle the logistics. I think a better interim option would be to keep cops onsite and trains a group of teachers in the use of guns to stop psychos.

[Denizen_Kate]

Sounds expensive. You buyin'?

[woodtick57]

you gonna be responsible for any mistake the newly trained teacher makes with that deadly weapon?

[PoliticalSpice]

No surprise. The mirror image of Republicans, their solution is always "cut taxes." NRA solution is always "more guns."

[KyleMFb]

It's not going to work most schools already have either one or two maybe even multiple armed officers that are there all day everyday school shootings are going to keep happing until something is done about guns no body needs assault weapons for self or home defense so everyone needs to shut up and suck it up and deal with a real assault weapons ban or keep watching theses "tragic" school shootings honestly I don't care either way I'm sick and tired of hearing about it....

[Thegrif]

Connecticut already has a assault weapons ban, didn't seem to help.
Colleges, high schools and middle schools have armed LEO's, not elementary schools. We leave our most precious resource totally unprotected 6-7 hours a day, 180 days a year, then act like we shouldn't have thought it was just a matter of time before sick-o's start picking on them.
I do agree that even with armed officers on school property, still some may have died, but maybe not as many, maybe none, maybe the bad guy wouldn't even attempt it.

[norezen]

@Thegrif Yeah when did the guy kill himself? When the police showed up. What if they were already there?
And its easy to say "no one needs x weapon for x defense," until someone gets harmed in their home or walking down the street because of a CCW ban.
I am actually happy there is an NRA, but I think LaPierre did the NRA a disservice in his statement. He simply should have said something to the tune of in the conversation about regulating specific firearms, SOMEONE has to represent the constitutional rights of millions of gun owners that legitimately and safely own firearms.

[Denizen_Kate]

Who's to say the guys who sign up for such duty won't be the very nut bags to open fire on students? Shouldn't the head of the NRA have a clue? LaPierre sounds pretty brainless to me.

[SavageMazx]

Wow Kate. I agree with most of what you say, but this one is just too far out there for me, this sounds as paranoid and clueless as LaPierre.

[bambi33]

Well, Denizen, they'd be protecting their own children. Think "motivation". Does that give you a clue? Talk about "brainless"...

[Denizen_Kate]

@SavageMazx - My point is, mental health, mental health, and more mental health, instead of more guns. We require people to pass tests before we license them to drive a car, couldn't we do the same with gun buyers? It's just a thought.

[SavageMazx]

@Denizen_Kate here in CA we have to pass a basic knowledge test to purchase a hand gun.

[Denizen_Kate]

@bambi33 - Their own children? You're assuming that armed guards at a school would be parents of children attending that school? BTW, your personal insults here and on another thread are duly noted. Make an attempt at civility, please.

[Mr_me]

The fact that cost is the issue is BS if it cost too much to protect children then I say ALL politicians should surrender ALL of their security including private planes. They can put up some signs to protect them.

[norezen]

I live in DC and there are police officers at every corner around the capitol, white house, supreme court building, senate and house offices, etc. Plus when I go to the library of congress, there are a handful of police at every entrance and exit. Same at city hall.
So yeah, when it comes to their own protection, lawmakers spare no expense and guess who they hire? ARMED police. Heavily armed police. They don't pretend that simply passing some gun control regulations is going to make them safe enough to forgo that level of security.

[Vance1]

armed security guards at every school makes too much sense for liberals

[hwyangel]

I so agree. We have security guards in government buildings, shopping malls, and warehouses. It's about time they started protecting our children. Especially with the drug dealers and other child predators it's very late in coming.

[Grubby]

Arm the school administrators and selected teachers. Yes, it will work, the only cost is the cost of the gun - the teachers and administrators are already there. If the school principal had been armed, she might have stopped the guy from killing all those kids. As it was, she was willing to lunge at him without a gun and be killed herself. The alternative is to pass a bunch of gun restrictions that will not work. Do you really think that the criminals and the insane will care what the gun laws say? And keeping the schools as no-weapon zones without protection will only continue to make the children a concentrated group of soft targets.

[jessejaymes]

Who's going to buy the ammo for Teachers and Principals to become proficient with the guns? Who is going to pay for them being certified? Who is going to pay for locked ammo cases and security related issues to keep thugs in the schools from ambushing armed teachers and taking their guns? And many kids would be saved in a school of 2,000 kids and the shooter is shooting up a classroom 50 doors away from the nearest armed teachers?

Those schools should go on lock down with only one door available to enter from the outside and urban combat vets should be hired to protect that door. Better the firefight takes place outside than inside.

[DARSB]

@jessejaymes Bake sales for bullets!

[jessejaymes]

@DARSB Of course, how silly of me

[norezen]

@jessejaymes You're right. Its way too expensive to protect kids. Let them fend for themselves.

[wtf2012]

@norezen I'm a cop and will gladly donate my services during my off time. If every officer in every community in this once great nation would do the same then problem solved. The lockdown suggestion is a fine idea I agree let the firefight stay outside the building

[PNWest]

Republicans have no problem cutting teacher salaries, cutting school budgets, cutting school programs and stuffing more and more kids into each classroom but in order to kiss the NRA's a$$ now there's plenty of money to spend putting armed guards in school. What a ridiculous idea.

[norezen]

Well when it comes to protecting young children from violence, money isn't as important as their lives.

[PNWest]

@norezen They had armed security at Columbine - how well did that work? You want to protect the children? Ban the freakin' guns! If that law abiding lady could not buy an assault rifle her nutty kid couldn't have stolen it, killed her, and then shot all those kids and teachers. Pretty simple.

[norezen]

@PNWest Just because having armed security at a school didn't work in one case doesn't mean that we should abandon the idea completely.
If a police officer dies in a situation where he could have used his gun to protect himself does that mean we should take guns away from all police officers?

[PNWest]

@norezen Your argument is specious. In the only incident that I know of where there was an armed security guard when a mass shooting took place he was unable to make any difference.

[norezen]

@PNWest So we don't have enough data. But yet we still arm police and bank security guards.

[MaxPain]

Did anyone really expect the NRA to step up???and come up with something other then their Age Old Comments.Well hells Bells you where Wrong.Its all about MONEY for GUY in his world Money Talks BullShitz walks.And as we saw they Walk,and Crawl

[Christiney]

Do they feed you liberal talking points at birth? What happened to common sense and critical thinking. The big bad boogeymen at the NRA, oil companies and churches are not the people destroying our society and quality of life. Come to California and visit Oakland, Compton, richmond, or take a trip to Chicago to see what a progressive liberal agenda played out actually looks like. BTW, Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the country and is also the murder capital. Does 1+1=2 anymore?

[bsking]

not as a federal government organization . it would have to be funded at the state local levels. we certainly do not need a school Security Administration that would mirror the pimply faced idiots at the TSA

[dances-weebles]

police presence in schools already exists in many urban locations and it isn't working.

[WasteWater]

It's a stupid idea which just wastes more money. Educate the parents to lock up the guns or better still, get rid of them.

[DARSB]

What do you think about trigger locks?

[WasteWater]

@DARSB anything is better than nothing. Of course, most things won't do a bit of good if you get a home invasion. I don't see what the armed guard is going to do. You would need a full on swat team armed and ready to go to really prevent these things. How much would that cost?

[SavageMazx]

@DARSB and gun safes, I have both, yet they render the gun inoperable or in accesable in a pinch, tough nut to crack isnt it. Most criminals that would enter your home have no problem resorting to violence, both options make you firearms useless at thier most critical moment.

[WasteWater]

@SavageMazx I agree with you. I don't lock mine up. If I had kids, I most certainly would lock them up.

[SavageMazx]

@WasteWater I have kids, who have been taught to respect the power of the firearm and also how to properly use them

[Tolpuddle]

Ban the guns! Right. You're an idiot of you think the number of semi auto's or large capacity magazines disappeared the last time they were banned. It costs to much to place someone armed in our schools! Really? What's the price tag on your child, sister, brother, niece, nephew etc.? You're saying let them die because it costs to much to keep them safe? Teach kids guns aren't the only answer? I kind of agree. There does come a time on occasion for a few however a gun is the only answer. How about we teach parents if their kid has a mental problem it isn't something that's going to go away with a Bayer aspirin nor is it something to be ashamed of. Get some help and get educated on the problem. If there is a propensity for violence, for cripes sake make sure the kid is monitored 24-7 by someone responsible and keep your guns safely secured. A decent trigger lock darn nears takes a light saber to get around and they're cheap and render the firearm to being nothing more than a club. The problem may have had extreme results, but the fix doesn't have to be extreme.