Should Doctors Collect Info on Gun Ownership?

Some physicians groups and public health researchers say yes, object to gag rules in Obamacare created under NRA pressure

Public health advocates are calling for the White House to remove provisions in the Obamacare health care law that restrict doctors' collection of data on gun use and ownership, which researchers say is stifling research on gun violence, the Washington Post reports.

National Rifle Association officials said they pushed for the language, which was quietly inserted in the sweeping health care reform bill before the Senate vote in 2009, out of concern insurance companies would single out gun owners for higher premiums, the Post said.

The health law also says wellness programs can't require patients to give information about guns they have in the house, and it prevents the Department of Health and Human Services from collecting data on gun use. While doctors are not forbidden to ask patients about guns, some physicians fear it will discourage full discussions about the safety hazards of keeping firearms in the household, Kaiser Health News says.

Medical groups and researchers say the Obamacare measure was the latest in a long line of efforts by the NRA to inhibit public health research on the impact of guns, thereby hindering efforts to prove new gun laws are needed. In 1996, Congress limited the Center for Disease Control's ability to fund such research. Last year, a funding bill contained a measure prohibiting the National Institutes of Health from spending money to "advocate or promote gun control," the Post reported.

Via The Washington Post and Kaiser Health News

Should doctors be able to collect data on the gun use of their patients?

[Zazziness]

No. A doctor is there to help with personal health not to quiz you about your gun ownership. Unless you are suffering from lead poisoning and he suspects it may be because you're chewing on bullets or something.

[Antiecm]

As a matter of point, my doctor asked my wife if we had guns in our house. She said to discuss that with me. I told him to his face to mind his own business. What I have i my house is absolutely none of his business. I also advised any further attempts to learn anything that is not directly connected with whatever doctoring he is doing will result in immediate and concise action that I am certain he will not be happy about.

[bsking]

It all depends how stupid the patient is I suppose

[Dan_Tien]

It is my understasnding that doctors must report any person suffering form a gunshot wound. What other medical need is there to collect information on gun ownership? If there needs to be some study about health effects related to the inhalation of exhausted gases from bullets then there should be plenty of data available from the military.

[Antiecm]

Are doctors aware of Kennesaw, Georgia. The safest town in America. Virtually NO CRIME. Why you may ask? Because in the 80's they passed a law that states that you cannot live in Kennesaw unless you own a gun and ammo if you are 21 years of age. They armed the entire town. And their crime went away. Why, because criminals try to not mess with armed people. They know the dangers of the armed person. They live in the safest city in the country. Google the statistics and learn for yourself.

[Zazziness]

@Antiecm A great coup for gun manufacturers but a direct violation of a U.S. citizen's right to make purchases as he sees fit. You weep crocodile tears about people being "forced" to have health insurance but rejoice when these folks are forced to own guns? Hypocrisy abounds. As for their crime free status? Kennesaw: Population 30,000. There is absolutely no way you can compare a podunk city of that size to a true metropolis. Apples and oranges.

[Antiecm]

@Zazziness If you go in a five star restaurant, you do not smoke, its the law. If you want to drive a car, you get a license, its the law. I could go one and on, as we all live withing rules. You can obtain the safety goal in different ways. You can make more gun laws, like DC where they have more gun laws on record by 3 times than anywhere else in the country. They also have the highest crime rate in the country. In Kennesaw you do not have to buy a gun, you can move. But for the enjoyment of those that are not afraid, that are willing to obey the laws, that realize that a gun is nothing but a tool for survival. Well the proof is indeed in the pudding, they have eliminated all crime.

[Antiecm]

@Antiecm There are other towns in this country that also require gun ownership to live there, but I cannot think of the names at this time.

[Zazziness]

@Antiecm They have not "eliminated all crime." I think you need to read up on your own example. I did.

[mimi57]

I would say no, with maybe the exception of someone seeing a psychiatrist for PTSD, bi-polarism, or other
mental health conditions that could put the public at risk, and certainly schizophrenics should never have access
to a gun.

[martydotcom]

@mimi57 which comes first the mental illness or the gun possession. Hindsight has thru far been 20:20 in " after the fact" diagnosis. Shocking isn't it that Psycho's buy guns because state governments are unwilling to provide fed's with background check files and after they kill we say "he was crazy"
Great logic Mimi

[MBernard]

I don't see how that helps with anything, I said NO.

[LucyJ]

Not no but HELL NO.

[Republican5001]

What about if the doctor has his own arsenal in his office? Is there a law against that?? Are we really going to continue on and on with knee jerk reactions to Newtown, CT?

[Polusalo]

You mean like the knee jerk reactions to Benghazi?

[malpaso]

Fortunately, my personal physician, who also happens to be the county coroner; is a life member of the NRA and an avid hunter.

[Republican5001]

@Polusalo and like Benghazi, nothing will come about.

[Polusalo]

@Republican5001
And like both incidents, nothing should happen with either.

[PNWest]

This goes beyond gun ownership. Technology today is at the point where tests can fairly accurately predict the kinds of diseases people are likely to get and whether they are likely to get certain cancers. As this technology evolves insurance companies will strive to get as much of it as they can to avoid insuring high risk people. Why sell insurance to someone who has a high risk of getting an expensive to treat disease. This will raise profits for the insurance companies and lower insurance costs if you are genetically lucky but is bad for people that may be genetically predisposed to various diseases - those who need the insurance the most. This is another good argument for single payer insurance. Put everyone in the same pool and determine insurance rates based on averages.

[woodtick57]

Don't worry, the health insurance industry will be gone in a decade or less.

[DogLady_1]

@woodtick57 - why would the insurance companies be gone in a decade? The ACA creates open marketplaces for insurance companies to sell their policies... and they will selll more since ACA also creates subsidization of premiums for people who cannot afford the policy they need.

[AceLuby]

I don't see why they shouldn't. We keep info on smokers because smoking increases your chance of getting sick and/or dying. Why shouldn't the same be used by (private) insurance companies seeing as that owning a gun increases your chance of injury or death by one?

[woodtick57]

So shouldn't obese people be charged more also? they cost more...

[AceLuby]

@woodtick57 Yes, I think that should be a determining factor so that those of us who make good choices about our health don't end up paying for those that do not.

[Zazziness]

@AceLuby No, you don't want that. I know when you think about it you'll see what I mean -- we do not need government or big business deciding how much we should weigh, whether we may smoke, or how often we need to exercise each day. While I think it's a very good thing when government shares information about what is healthy living, if we are going to be a free people, it must never dictate how we live.(And though you believe you live a perfectly healthy life and would be unaffected, let me assure, you that you do not. Been outside lately? Tsk. Solar radiation is so lethal...) d

[Yank]

@AceLuby those who make bad choices tend to die younger and cost less then those who live longer. They often pay into the system and die before the can take out of the system. After all, old age is the most expensive condition of all.

[AceLuby]

@Zazziness They aren't dictating how we live. You can choose to live however you want, but nobody is above consequences for any choice they make, good or bad.

[Sharpshooter]

Hmmmm.... When someone is a Wack Job seen as a potential threat to society, Doctor Patient Privilege stops the doctor from reporting it and the "rights" of the Wacko prevent him from being put in a secure facility.

BUT it's fine for a doctor to collect and disseminate information about law abiding citizens exercising their Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms. Doctor Patient Privilege doesn't count when it's politically expedient.

Doctors..... in the business for 30 years and still "Practicing."
Doctors..... Bury their mistakes without so much as a question
Doctors..... Paid to redo a job they screwed up the first time
Doctors..... Most often the last person with someone when they die

No wonder they needed an idiot to force legislation through government to protect them.... anyone else running a business like them would be out of business in six months. Of course the idiot championing their cause knows as much about business as a pig does about Sunday.

[PNWest]

"When someone is a Wack Job seen as a potential threat to society, Doctor Patient Privilege stops the doctor from reporting it" - that is not true.

From the AMA:
If there is a reasonable probability that a patient will inflict serious bodily harm on another person, for example, the physician should take precautions to protect the intended victim and notify law enforcement authorities. Communicable diseases and gunshot and knife wounds should be reported as required by applicable statutes or ordinances. Thus, the physician's duty of confidentiality at times must give way to a stronger countervailing societal interest.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/physician-res...

[Sharpshooter]

@PNWest AMA... that's almost funny....

Doctors regulating Doctors; that's gonna be almost as effective as politicians regulating politicians.

Wanna tell me how well that worked with Wacked out James Holmes and his Psychiatrist?

The wack job had time enough to specifically outline his plans in a notebook and mail it in but somehow the Doctor didn't notice anything amiss?

Doctors need to concentrate on MEDICINE and stay the hell out of social issues. Maybe if they paid attention to their JOB they might be able to move past Practicing and actually get good enough to switch to DOING.

[PNWest]

@Sharpshooter The AMA is accepted as the organization that sets standards for physicians. But they are wrong and Sharpshooter is more qualified. By the way the AMA doesn't regulate doctors the various state medical boards do.

Wacko James Holmes mailed his plans before he did the shooting. They weren't discovered until after the shooting. A cursory check on the internet would have shown you that. Try and get your facts right next time.

[Sharpshooter]

@PNWest "Wacko James Holmes mailed his plans before he did the shooting. They weren't discovered until after the shooting. A cursory check on the internet would have shown you that. Try and get your facts right next time."

NO SHIT Sherlock.... I'm glad you can use Google... Can you also use deductive reasoning? Can you READ things contrary to your mindset?

Here's my statement....

"The wack job had time enough to specifically outline his plans in a notebook and mail it in but somehow the Doctor didn't notice anything amiss?"

He had time to outline his plans.... Any question from you on the meaning of that?

During that time he was under the care of his shrink..... Any question from you on the meaning of that?

Was his shrink too busy or too stupid to see signs of that happening?

I ALWAYS take care to have my facts straight.... and have a very good batting average. What I don't do is sit silently watching Kool Aid Sipping buffoons twist facts to suit their argument.

The AMA was recognized by DOCTORS.... It's run by DOCTORS For DOCTORS.

Doctors are bound to the Hippocratic Oath, THAT is where Doctor Patient Privileged comes from... Interesting that their "holy" oath is selectively enforced.

YOUR AMA QUOTE

"If there is a reasonable probability that a patient will inflict serious bodily harm on another person, for example, the physician should take precautions to protect the intended victim and notify law enforcement authorities. Communicable diseases and gunshot and knife wounds should be reported as required by applicable statutes or ordinances. Thus, the physician's duty of confidentiality at times must give way to a stronger countervailing societal interest."

Where does simply owning a gun fit into the perceived danger allowing a Doctor to violate his oath and MY RIGHTS to trust his discretion.

You can't have it both ways.

I know what I would tell my doctor.... "It starts with NONE and ends with Business."

Can you deductively reason the rest of my answer? Hint... he'll likely recognize the "F" word as it goes by.

[PNWest]

@Sharpshooter "The wack job had time enough to specifically outline his plans in a notebook and mail it in but somehow the Doctor didn't notice anything amiss?" - If the notebook was important how could the doctor notice anything amiss without seeing it? If the doctor should have diagnosed him without seeing the notebook why mention it? You just don't want to admit that you wrote that sentence believing that the doctor had read the notebook and ignored it's contents.

How do you know what this guy told the doctor? Pure speculation on your part. Doctors aren't omnipotent you know.

I also see you've backed off you statement "Doctors regulating Doctors; that's gonna be almost as effective as politicians regulating politicians." - As I said state medical boards regulate doctors. It is up to the states to decide who serves on them.

Frankly, I don't care what you tell your doctor. I just hope they do a better job with you than Mr. Holmes's doctor did with him.

[Jean]

no way. the government is tracking us enough as it is. if they can't get who is a threat and who isn't with the way they are already in our lives...then something is seriously wrong....
if anyone was paying any attention there is always indicators before something like this happens. it takes people having guts enough to stand up and be accountable for their brothers.

[hwyangel]

Well said. They can't take your guns if they don't know you have them. What other reason would they want to know?

[DogLady_1]

The question was "should DOCTORS" collect info... Doctors are not the gov't. Doctors are supposed to keep up with trends on causes of death so they can learn more about trying to save lives. Should doctors ignore mortality trends? I think not....

And doctors can share their statistical findings with the gov't without also sharing their list of patients' names and addresses and whether they own a gun or not.

[MadAmerican]

Don't drink the kool aid. Socialist powers at be want your guns, your money, property, and life! When you are regulated and taxed to death then you will have the standards of East Germany in the 1970's, along with those other suppressed countries. We are not that far from it boys and girls. Health care and education shoved down your throat, higher taxes every year, regulations on food, gas, electricity, travel, etc. Money being shifted to foreign Muslim countries at the whim of our executive dictator. Corruption at every government level. Need I go further? It's not that far off till our constitution will be nothing more than an old relic with no meaning whatsoever.

[PNWest]

Well I can tell from your post that you have successfully resisted having any education shoved down your throat. Taxes are at the lowest they've been in nearly 80 years. No one has taken away a single gun of yours. We have an elected President not an executive dictator. Have you seen a doctor about these fantasies?

[MadAmerican]

@PNWest I was just saying these things are in the works. taxes are not lower there are just more of them. Personal property, state, income, federal, school, occupational, alcohol, vehicle, gas, fees and licenses out the ying yang. Tell me that you aern't taxed! And when a president refuses to work with representatives of the people that is when he becomes a self imposed dictator.

[Bullitt]

@PNWest don't be so snarky

[KyleMFb]

I like the healthcare law but doctors don't need to know weather you have guns or not their job is to be astronomically over paid and give medical advice nothing else we already know guns can kill people and if people said yes we have guns well their insurance company if they were fortunate to have it would hit them with high prices

[DARSB]

"doctors don't need to know weather you have guns or not"

That's the worst spell of "whether" I've ever been through! ;)

[Ashstop]

Should a car dealership collect info on prescription drugs? More people die every year from prescription drugs than from guns.
What about listing your name and address in a news paper if you get prescription drugs? You know, same excuse they used for gun owners names publicized, people might not want their kids going to a home with guns laying around, their could be drugs laying around too! Maybe we need to ban prescription drugs!!
Or Maybe...
We should blame the person that used these objects in ways they werent intended instead!

[SavageMazx]

Dang you Ashstop, stop being so logical.

[Yank]

The article almost seems slanted to say the NRA did something wrong by advocating for that added language.

[DARSB]

We are on track to see gun-related deaths outnumber death from automobile accidents in the next 24 months or so. More toddlers are killed each year by firearms than police officers from the same cause. About 55,000 of us are shot each year.

And this isn't a public health issue?

[crusader]

No, unless gunpowder causes cancer it is not public health. You are mistaking injuries as health problems, nobody ever caught a case of bullets due to poor health practices, nor could a doctor prevent gun violence with medical treatment. It is a serious social problem, not anything any doctor can do about it until they arrive in the ER.It is no more of a health issue than the speed you drive your car, has your doctor talked to you about driving safely or asked what type of car you own?. It is public safety issue not a health issue.

[DARSB]

@crusader You make a number of claims that cannot be shown to be true - because funding for research into the subject has been systematically throttled by the NRA for decades.

[crusader]

@DARSB That makes absolutely no sense. What part is not true? That guns are safety issue not a health issue? If they were a health issue you could get medication to take to protect against them. I think responsible gun ownership should be taught and possibly enforced but that the job of any doctor, at least not a medical doctor. Parents have baby gates cabinet locks and many other things to keep kids safe, but a safe for their guns should be used as well.

[WilliamWallace]

The firearms numbers include suicides and that makes the numbers substantially higher.

[DARSB]

@crusader "That makes absolutely no sense. What part is not true?"

My point is that it's very difficult to tell because systematic research has not been done - and it should be. When a legal commercial product is directly linked to the injury or death of 60,000 or so people annually it demands scientific investigation. The NRA has obstructed research for decades. That may serve their interests quite well but, as in the case of tobacco companies, the corporate interests are often at odds with the interests of public health.

[AlexMIA]

No, they already try, atleast some lefty pediatricians have. I say lie and then change doctors!

[WilliamWallace]

All of my guns fell out of the boat the last time I was target practicing on the lake.

[AlexMIA]

@WilliamWallace Lost them all! Huh? ;)

[Penn1699]

N O. Only reporting that which has potential consequences for minors or if patient is psychiatrically compromised.

[Grubby]

What a stupid idea. If my doctor can take inventory of my guns, then I want to know all about his medical problems. Another example of an idea coming from liberal big government control freaks.

[racemonkey]

I don't care that it threatens gun rights it's just inappropriate from the get go. We have enough trouble with our healthcare system now to divert our doctors attention elsewhere. If they want the guns they should load up and come get 'em.

[Thegrif]

AMEN!!!