Ohio School District to Arm Janitors

A northwestern Ohio school district will train custodial staff to carry guns to protect against a school shooting

In addition to lugging around mops and buckets, the custodial staff at the K-12 campus of a school in northwest Ohio will soon be trained to carry handguns.

The school board in Montpelier, Ohio has voted to arm custodians in order to prevent a school shooting like last month's massacre at a Newtown, Conn. elementary school, according to the Toledo Blade.

The idea has drawn national attention as educators and policymakers debate what will help keep students safer. The National Rifle Association proposed having an armed guard in every school, a solution panned by gun safety proponents.

Four janitors volunteered to take part in the two day training. There are about 1,000 students and 75 teachers in one building in the Williams County town of 4,000 residents.

The school district's plan to arm custodians got mixed reactions from parents. Some in the article said they felt their kids would be safer. One parent said she would prefer hiring police for the job.

"I am a little leery. I know they are going to be doing all this training and stuff, but what if a janitor goes psychotic?" said Shannon Siler, the mother of two girls told the Blade. "There is a need to beef up security. ... But, it all starts at home. Lock your guns up."

Via the Toledo Blade

Does arming school janitors sound like a good plan?

[stepped_in_it]

"There is a need to beef up security.... But, it all starts at home. Lock your guns up." Could not have been better said! Gun owners....READ her last 4 words. This is especially true if you have children and/or a mental issue within your household.

[texas_cutie75]

Everyone in my family has a biometric gun safe in their house. There is one grandchild in the family to date, he is 4.... yeah, we keep all weapons locked up.

[stepped_in_it]

@texas_cutie75 Kudos to you. Now, if we can just get the "rest" to understand that! The law needs to press the issue of responsibility for that gun. Child endangerment and/or accessory to the crime (committed by the "child" using that gun).

[Real4WheelDrv]

How about anti-gun activists read her last 4 words. Responsible gun owners DO lock them up already, and it's not enough for many people.

[RobertJHarsh]

I agree on devices like biometric safes that provide instant access. Not things like gun locks. Let's make sure we do security that is practical.

[stepped_in_it]

@Real4WheelDrv Agree 100%. Responsible gun owners do secure their guns. It's the irresponsible gun owners that worry me! If they don't exist, then why do we hear about "children" getting hold of guns (CT shooter was an "older" child...Calif. shotgun shooter the same).

[Rocker]

Another option that a school system can consider for security depending on the circumstances and qualifications of staff.

[Denizen_Kate]

It's this school's right to do as they see fit, but janitors with two days of training? Have they undergone any sort of background check or psychological evaluation? How fit are they, physically and mentally? This just doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

[Rocker]

@Denizen_Kate - I agree with the background and qualifications being strict and thorough. Between jobs some years ago, I subbed teaching at the local H.S. One of the very first requirements was a Sheriff Dept background check. That was fine by me, due to some of the facilities I contracted at, a security clearance was and is necessary. And no... LOL... none of that '007' stuff - just normal clearance.

[Denizen_Kate]

@Rocker - "... just normal clearance." I have one of those, too. 007! Ha!:)

[Rocker]

@Denizen_Kate - I hope you don't have 'rushes' when you get 'frisked'. <wink - snickers>

[mudzangandoro]

Then the janitors meed to be paid more.

[TheJimmy]

Yes, because janitors are the eyes and ears of all institutions.

[Rocker]

I'll have to agree, Jim. Most janitors know every nook and cranny of an institution, building, or complex. And are the least paid. I hope if this method of security is employed, the staff gets a raise that is equivalent to their capabilities.

[thejimbo]

Cops carry guns. Do you worry about them going beserk? I would agree to do this if the school employees receive the same psychological evaluation that police officers to through. That's why we don't worry about the police. So, give them the guns but evaluate them.

[PoliticalSpice]

@jamesmitchell I've met a lot of cops, many are beserk. Indeed, the number of unarmed civilians killed by cops is reason enough to arm citizens.

[SignifiedNBlue]

@PoliticalSpice yes , I know cops that are on prozac..they are the dangerous ones because they get away with murder all the time in this country

[PoliticalSpice]

@SignifiedNBlue prozac and seritoion uptake inhibitors are especially dangerous because in some cases they can cause slight episodes of mania or paranoia, very dangerous for someone with a gun and the legal protection to shoot it. Cops on prozac should not be kept in the stationhouse doing administrative or communications work, not involved in aggressive activities likevstreet policing...

[texas_cutie75]

I think so, janitors are not confined to a classroom. They easily maneuver through the schools. That also takes away the issue of the weapons being in the classroom with the students. Well done Ohio!

[WMCOL]

Alone janitors are not enough. Schools still need an armed, trained, certified civilian posse outside the schools who can protect outside and come inside if need be, and the cost is borne by volunteers.

[stepped_in_it]

Say what? A "posse"? You also want some vigilantes and little white horseys?

[jessejaymes]

@stepped_in_it And little white hoods no doubt.

[stepped_in_it]

@jessejaymes Called "hoodies" now days ;-)

[Mogal]

@stepped_in_it snuggies. :D

[WMCOL]

@stepped_in_it
Nope, these are civilians who undergo same training as does a Deputy Sheriff. They operate under the authority of the Sheriff, just like it would be in Arizona with Sheriff Joe Apaio's plan to secure the schools there. Excellent plan!

[Jackie312gm]

Protecting our children should be the number one priority in AMERICA. Let trained professionals protect ours schools. What happened in the state of CONNETICUT must not happen again!! The incident in Connecticut really touched my soul; it hit me like a lightning bolt.....it must not happen again........!!

[Drake_Burrwood]

If not wearing lock up both guns and ammo, separately. If one goes rogue nuts hopefully the others take him down. The number one represents a weakness.

[Thegrif]

"I am a little leery. I know they are going to be doing all this training and stuff, but what if a janitor goes psychotic?"

Well, anyone could snap and just loose it, even LEO's.
Personality type is more important an issue. My experience tells me, that gun or no gun, some people just will not put themselves in harms way and engage the perp. I guess though, that question can only truly be answered under fire.
Hopefully its real value will be that sicko's just plain ole will not risk harming kids now that guns are in schools.
But, self preservation being our greatest desire, our will to preserve our own life. It takes a paticular mind set to run towards a threat. Or, like you see when a mom gives her life for her child, or a dad runs in to a burning home to save a child, these are exceptions to the rule.
For lack of a better word, at least from me, I think a bit of a combative nature is needed to actually do what may be needed.

[Real4WheelDrv]

Funny how parents would trust the guy in the uniform over the "lowly" janitor. As if your job somehow excludes you from going nuts or getting an ego. And let me throw this out there, you honestly think that younger and maybe some cases older officers wouldn't be too busy flirting with the occasional pretty girl to keep an eye out? A guy who looks good in a uniform and packing a gun has an aura of power etc.

[stepped_in_it]

HMMM, kinda sick there. So, you think cops "flirt" with girls that are mostly under the age of 18? You do realize we are talking about K-12 schools and not colleges....right? Welp, once a perv, always a perv!

[Real4WheelDrv]

@stepped_in_it You're telling me older men never flirt with high school girls?

[stepped_in_it]

@Real4WheelDrv I'm telling you YOU are calling ALL professional police officers a pervert! Have a little issue with the police to make such a statement? By the way, have 4 friends on the local PD, sheriffs and hi-way patrol and NONE would act like that! All are responsible husbands who just want to finish their shift and get home to their family! Sick statement to put all cops in that category!

[jessejaymes]

The last person on the face of the earth I want armed in our schools is the Janitors. You can make any excuse you like but there is no excuse for arming those who are so undisciplined, so uneducated themselves, so low on the totem pole of schools that they are in fact the very bottom in every measurable category (other than cleaning up after people) No i don't want Janitors armed in our schools. This should be a no brainer. What's next? You going to start arming stray dogs?

[Real4WheelDrv]

@stepped_in_it I apologize for what I said, especially because when I wrote it I didn't see how it sounded. I feel my POINT is valid, but at the moment I can't think of HOW to say it right. But FYI, I have a friend who works as a firefighter/EMT and he met his wife while responding to a call to rush her mom to the hospital, so don't think being a public servant makes you immune to human nature.

[harold_lloyd]

What about all those school systems that have outsourced their custodians?
Those contractors will hire anyone as long as they'll work cheap.
Do you really want to give those guys guns?
Half of them couldn't pass a background check.

[Thunderchicken]

In MO, you have to have a background check to interact with the students. I know from experience that all of the school staff has had one as well as any parent volunteer. Even a field trip chaperone gets one. As well as extracurricular volunteers. (Band boosters etc.)

[kathyparsell]

Kudos to your state/schooldistrict! Doesn't happen in the schools I have been involved in. Practically anyone can volunteer.

[Thunderchicken]

@kathyparsell

When our kids started going to school, we found out quickly that the quality of the public school depends a lot on the involvement of the parents.

[kathyparsell]

@Thunderchicken I agree entirely, have two still in school and two in college, just wishing our school boards were as diligent about the character of those with access to our schools. Unfortunantely, I have many times worked with volunteers that I wouldn't allow in my home.

[Thunderchicken]

@kathyparsell

I was surprised how buttoned down ours was. It was kind of funny when I attended my first school board meeting. I knew most of the members socially before I knew they were school board members.

[kathyparsell]

I think that janitors are certainly as capable as anyone other than trained law enforcement, and have the tatical advantage over all personnel. I hope that along with training they have a psychological exam. I would want this of any person given the responsibility of pulling a gun and using it in a school setting.

[Realthinker]

It's a very good idea. And let's get something straight. I know a number of very honorable men who work as 'janitors', custodians, or 'handyman' because they lacked the money for higher education, and not because they are stupid or criminals. They actually do not mind serving in such a capacity because they aren't snobs. Once again we see bigotry, and once again, that bigotry is not coming from conservatives.

[texas_cutie75]

I attended a private school and our "handyman" was a highly decorated WWII vet. He wanted to ensure the school his grandchildren attended was adequately taken care. This school had an amazing garden, landscaping, and was kept meticulously clean. There is an Air Force base that trains pilots and those guys happily donated time to his pet project. Never judge a book by its cover.

[Dan_Tien]

In Washington, a Vancouver man who volunteered at a church youth group and was reportedly studying to become a child sex abuse counselor was taken into custody this week on federal child pornography charges. Ain't that weird? Are you going to trust your children's lives to janitors who volunteer to carry guns at their schools?

[mtkopf]

There are reasons why professional law enforcement agencies give their candidates a psychological evaluation besides having them go through a training academy for multiple weeks. The academy is not just used to educate but also for teaching discipline and further evaluations with the intent on weeding out the "undesirables".

Personally, I do think arming an individual to carry a firearm around children, after a whole 4 days of instruction/evaluation, is very irresponsible.

[Zazziness]

Stupid or crazy... stupid or crazy... I can't choose so I'm going to have to say the idea is equally stupid *and* crazy.

[Grubby]

Providing someone with guns at schools is an outstanding idea. Could be retired police officer volunteers, janitors, principals, teachers, off duty security guards. Do the diligent background checks on who you give these jobs to, that is obvious. Train them well, that is obvious. But leaving the kids unprotected and unarmed is a terrible idea. The bad guys will always be able to get guns. The sooner they can be confronted by deadly force from a good guy, the sooner they will stop their killing. To think otherwise is naive, and nothing Obama and Biden can do will prevent a nut from doing harm. A Glock with a clip of hollow point .38's in the hands of just one trained person at that school could have saved most of those lives. Of course, if two or three people had died including the shooter the liberal press would still have a field day talking about "shootout at the primary school" and the need for "gun free school zones"....like Sandy Hook was. In the area of the country where I grew up having guns around in stores and schools for protection was a given. Under the counter of the family business when I grew up was a loaded and chambered .38, pointed outward and ready. Hanging on the wall in plain sight behind the counter were 3 rifles, also loaded. My dad had a concealed carry license, and wore a shoulder holster under his shirt most days. We never had to use them for protection or a robbery, but everyone who worked there knew what to do if needed. I don't think we had any bad guys in town dumb enough to try something.

[mtkopf]

Your statement about how one armed person at Sandy Hook would have saved all those kids lives is off the mark. In watching coverage following the massacre, an FBI agent, a former secret service agent, a couple of police officers and private security guys ALL said it would have been a very difficult shot for a PRO.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating repealing the 2nd amendment, I just think arming non professionals gives a false sense of security in the least and at worst is very dangerous and irresponsible.

[Grubby]

@mtkopf Many schools are doing just that right now. Good for them. We will see in the future how "dangerous" it is. The interviews you talked about are for guys from the outside, taking a shot at a guy in the school. If the principal who tried to lunge unarmed at the shooter had a gun, might have been a different story. She was obviously just feet from him. I don't think ths shot would have been all that difficult.

[Food4thoughts]

Everyone knows the next best thing to trained armed guards is the person with a mop.

[PNWest]

What is with these gun nuts? Do we really want Groundskeeper Willie wandering around Springfield Elementary brandishing firearms? First you want to arm the teachers. Then hire armed guards. Remember - they had an armed guard at Columbine. We need responsible gun safety legislation to keep guns out of the hands of irresponsible people.

[Thunderchicken]

Overreact much? I doubt that anyone will be brandishing anything. And if they do, they shouldn't (and probably wouldn't) be allowed to carry. As for Groundskeeper Willie, likely as not he already owns a gun.(Gun ownership is almost 50%) As for responsible gun legislation, we already have it. It's more a matter of enforcement that piling on more laws.

As far as I'm concerned, it should be up to the school board. If they see the need, I'll respect their decision. That's why we elect them.

[JohnnyDee]

Beats the hell out of abolishing the second amendment, or forcing the children to be sitting ducks via a libtard utopia gun free zone!

[PNWest]

@JohnnyDee @Thunderchicken Remember guns don't kill people, nutjobs with access to the guns of responsible gun owners do. Adam Lanza's mom was a responsible gun owner. So were the parents of the Columbine killer IIRC. More guns means more nutjobs with access to them which means more gun murders. Let's put guns into the hands of the least educated, most poorly paid people working in the school - what could possibly go wrong?

[Thunderchicken]

@PNWest

"More guns means more nutjobs with access to them which means more gun murders. "

Completely ignoring the fact that while gun sales are up, gun crimes are down.

http://isearch.avg.com/search... {CB26189B-FC97-4D88-89E3-CFD2C B79DD97}&mid=827a8e7717fe0 646dac098a0f20050dc-7e3b2a159f dbff0ba1205271b72a483a84a284f1 &ds=AVG&lang=en&v= 12.2.5.34&pr=fr&d=2012 -09-27%2018:08:06&sap=dsp &q=Gun+ownership+vs+gun+cr imes

[John_Matrix]

@PNWest

Ever get tired if being wrong? America has the most private firearm ownership than any other country in the world yet we're not even close to being number in gun related homicides. So once again you're wrong, more guns do not mean more gun deaths, period.

[Infinity]

As long as they're trained well, and pass regular psych evaluations, I see no issues with them carrying as a protection measure for the school

[JohnnyDee]

In theory it's a good idea. There are some janitors that I've seen that should not be doing this. We have a janitor at one school here that is damn near blind and is about 80 years old, he wouldn't be a good candidate to hand a gun over to. I'm sure there are some janitors with criminal backgrounds too, well some teachers also! There are exemptions granted to teachers and support staff that have prior criminal records. I will support this if the janitor or teacher can pass the same proficiency requirements as police officers when it comes to shooting ability.(PS the proficiency requirement for a police officer isn't as hard as you would think, scoring 80/120 points.)