Montana Bill Would Allow Creationism in Science Class

'Fossil discoveries and DNA evidence' don't solve questions on origins of life, the bill says

A Montana lawmaker has introduced a bill that will allow science instructors to teach "alternate viewpoints," a move that critics say will open the gates to creationism in biology class.

The bill mentions "Darwin's theory of evolution, fossil discoveries, DNA evidence, random mutation, [and] natural selection," stating that the scientific community has not agreed that such findings solve or answer questions about the origins of life.

State Rep. Clayton Fiscus defended his bill by saying that evolution isn't accepted fact, and it takes a "monumental leap" to believe in it. "We should teach what we do know. We should also teach what we don't know," Fiscus said. H

An earlier version of the bill had proposed teaching "intelligent design." The new bill has vaguer language, instead promising to protect "teachers who present alternative viewpoints regarding controversial scientific theories."

Via Little Green Footballs and the Missoulian.

Should science teachers be allowed to raise alternatives to evolution?

[DARSB]

Every so often the foundations for natural selection are a little bit undermined by discovery of people who really haven't evolved - like this guy.

[DerivePI]

Don't worry DARSB, you'll get there (smile)!

[justapirate]

Stop it, fer cryin' out loud. You got Sunday school, use it to teach your propoganda. The bloomin' bible is not science. It's a collection of stories.

[NormalFlora]

Evolution is the ONLY explanation for the vast amount of data accumulated by international scientists in several dozen disciplines. Evolution has been verified by millions of graduate students. Creationism does not have a single verifiable piece of evidence to support it. A Bronze Age anthology of campfire fables is not science!!!

[DerivePI]

"Evolution is the ONLY explanation..." would be an impossible hypothesis to justify. If you wish to take the scientific high ground, then I suggest using scientific reasoning. For instance, "life on Earth is genetically related" can be substantiated.

[NormalFlora]

@DerivePI Point conceded

[harold_lloyd]

Intellect is not going to work, the fundamentalists reject logic in favor of faith.

[sgr]

@harold_lloyd In religion, faith is a virtue.
In science, faith is a vice.

[BobC]

"Evolution is the ONLY explanation " Of course that's true. It's been proven repeatedly.

Christian scum can drop dead if they think they can stick their magic jeebus man into science classrooms.

darwinkilledgod.blogspot.com

[CultOfReason]

Republicans these days are their own best argument against both intelligent design and evolution.

[Tralee]

This is a prime example of Rule #5 from Rules for Radicals. "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense, it's irrational and infuriating. Well done CultOfReason.

[CultOfReason]

@Tralee
Your Welcome.

[SavageMazx]

Teach them both as a "theory" and let the parents decide what they want their children to believe...problem solved, shut up and move on.

[hwyangel]

I endorse this statement.

[justapirate]

So, can we include The Great Spaghetti Monster in this? Under all that qualifies as religion His Noodly Appendage meets the criteria. Fair is fair, right?

[CultOfReason]

Main problem with that is that Intelligent Design is not a theory. It is a hypothesis. A scientific theory must be testable in a consistent and repeatable manner.

Intelligent Design is an unverified, unverifiable hypothesis. In short, it is not science. Keep it at home, in church or in some other religious setting where it belongs. It has no place in a Science class.

[SavageMazx]

@justapirate so you can't accept that compromise? All it addressed was the idea of where we came from?

[SavageMazx]

@CultOfReason and what testable research has been done on the theory of evolution?

[falco_alba]

Teach the Bible on Sundays.

And yes, all of the listed above do explain the origins of life. A lot better than a man in the sky waving his hand and poof! Here we are.

[Waynestew]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Science and religion should always remain separate. No wonder the government is trying to give incentives for scientists from other countries, we seem to have none left.

[harold_lloyd]

It's pretty clear that the gentleman from Montana doesn't know anything about science.

I would hope that his constituents would take note of this at the next election.

It's unevolved morons like this that will turn American exceptionalism into exceptional ignorance and superstition.

[Tralee]

Harold, no worries man, Obama has already started the steady decline from American exceptionalism to American mediocrity and low expectations. Name calling is usually meant at a conversation stopper, not invitation to debate. See, people DO have different opinions, no one called you stupid or an unevolved moron for YOUR opinion. You instead went right to Rule #5 of Rules for Radicals.

[Mogal]

@Tralee -facepalm-

[harold_lloyd]

@Tralee
If you want to see decline, fill the government with fundamentalists like Fiscus.

I was not trying to continue a conversation. That would be like trying to teach the pig to sing.

For Rule 5 to be effective, there has to be something to ridicule. I'm sorry if the far far right has provided so much material to work from, but it has, and continues to do so many things that would deserve nothing but ridicule if they weren't trying to run a country in accordance with their superstitions.

Having said all that, I think it would be a good idea to mention creation 'science' and intelligent design. It can be a good example of science misused, like flat earth, and geocentrism.

[Tralee]

@harold_lloyd Wow, and how do your really feel? What a shame that you have written off half the country by believing all your are fed. Really, I am sorry for that.

[Dan_Tien]

@Tralee Science is not based on opinion, it is based on evidence. If you want to teach Christian creationism as science, then be prepared for your kids to get lessons on other creation myths in their science classes. Want them to hear about Earth getting populated by aliens from space or how people emerged from the center of the earth?

If there is scientifically reliable evidence of alternatives to evolution then they are appropriate for discussion in a science class, but unsupportable stories based on nothing but belief do not qualify.

[McAli]

The religious are greedy, aren't they? It's called 'Biology' class because its a subsection of 'Science'! Science has rules. Wanna teach Intelligent Design? There's a place for that; its called 'Religion' class.

[russ]

Neither are pure science and neither are mutually exclusive. While evolution may better fit the paradigm as presently described, creationism should not be patently dismissed. Sure, creation is a belief (not restricted to the Bible) but, then, with all the holes yet to be filled, so is evolution. To assume we know that power greater than our own is nonexistent is like saying we have a full understanding of the universe. There's no harm in allowing students access to info about both...greater breadth of knowledge, dontcha know.

[harold_lloyd]

Natural selection is science, and creationism is not. There is no 'pure' science.

[russ]

@harold_lloyd
Close, but no cigar--natural selection is a fair paradigm, but way too many variables.

[AceLuby]

You want to teach this in school, fine, teach it in philosophy and religious studies courses where it belongs along with Zeus. Leave science to scientific theories and the scientific method, of which creationism fails as adhering to either.

[LGRepublican]

EXACTLY! Teach science in science class. We have classes for creationism, they're called philosophy and theology.

[JustTheFacts]

If you want to teach regilion in school then call it what it is ... I have no problem with that but calling it science which is suppose to be based on fact and not faith ... I have a big problem with that!

[Neo_NtheMatrix]

We can keep kicking God out of the classroom and see what happens. Already the U.S. is plummeting in education. Anyone want to take a wild stab at why? Ever since we started depending on Jimmy Carter and his big government education department the education system in this country has been going downhill. We can pretend science is the answer to every mystery, but it isn't. The Bible gives us many answers to the very questions we seek answers to. I applaud Clayton Fiscus for his bravery and patriotism and willingness to step forward and promote ideas that will advance American education instead of continuing the liberal indoctrination of the nation.

[NormalFlora]

What an absolutely predictable response. But wrong. We are 21st in the world in math and science BECAUSE we have, in the past, allowed the Texas godaholics to write our science books. We can't lead the world in science if our kids are taught "goddidit with magic."

[woodtick57]

then whay are we getting our butt kicked in education by nations that teach Zero religion in htier schools and where far fewer people even believe those ancient myths?

Seem the further you get away from teaching those myths as fact, the better education becomes, but that is logic and science, and they don't teach you that in your book of myths...

[Knightkore]

Thank you....agreed....

[ConserveUSA]

Thank you Neo! Taking God out of the Education System leads children into trouble and despair. I pray for the ones who do not believe in God and I do not mine to be persecuted for standing up for Jesus Christ, Our Lord & Savior!

[Tolpuddle]

Hogwash! God is more than welcome in the classrooms. His mom however must enroll him. If he has a question, he must raise his hand,,,,, just like everyone else. Science has answered far more mysteries than the Bible has. I don't believe for one second there is a God. Do you believe in Zeus? Me neither. I don't believe in god for the same reason you don't believe in Zeus.

[Raptor]

"don't solve questions on origins of live", Now I am not an english prof. but it seems to me some one did not spell their headlines right.

[citizen123]

The theory of evolution is not a fact and you do not have to believe in creation based on the bible if you do not want to but shouldnt everyone be presented with both views. a theory is not a fact.

[Zazziness]

Can you tell me why Genesis has two slightly different creation stories in it?(Hint: It's because Genesis is not and was never meant to be used as a science text.)

[AceLuby]

The theory of gravity is not a fact either...

[woodtick57]

@AceLuby

I slipped on my icy front step this morning... that theory hurts like hell!

[Canoochee]

Please outline the creationist theory. Be as brief as you can.

[harold_lloyd]

Please google 'scientific method' and realize that sometimes we mean different things when we use words like 'theory'.

[Buzzfriendly]

Well just so we don't appease the Christian we should also cover the Greek and Roman gods, Muslim, Hindu, Celtic, Pagan, Wicca, Scientology etc. Just want to make sure we cover all of these myths in fairness.

[ctc]

"We should also teach what we don't know," Fiscus said.
Nah.....let's just stick with what we know.

[Huntfoodfish]

Merely considering the name of Jesus is so frightening to those who do not believe that they can NOT allow it to pass without getting up in arms to try to shoot His existence down.

[Raptor]

As far as "Creationism" goes it is junk science and has no place in the class room. Contrary to Rep. Paul Broun, a republican from Ga., called evolution “lies from the pit of hell” in a speech, and argued that the Earth is 9,000 years old. Creationism on the other hand say it begain about 4000 years ago and the church claims
according to Bishop James Ussher who sets the date for creation at or on October 23, 4004 BC.

[jessejaymes]

How about we get back to teaching things in primary education that we DO know. Evolution and Creationism have no business in primary education. Our stinking kids are lagging light years behind the rest of the "educated world" and a good amount can't even read or write to 10th grade level and yet we waste time teaching theories. That crap belongs in college.

[hankf68]

a society of morons is much easier to control than an educated and informed society, I think it's the goal in general for those who seek to keep that power...

[Zazziness]

Evolution is such an importing underlying principle that I think kids should get it by 6th grade science class. It affects every field of biological science, for instance.

[jessejaymes]

@Zazziness I don't agree. Evolution is not a proven science. And it is divisive. I see this as the same thing as the 10 commandments in schools. Let one in you have to let them all in. Our schools today are social teaching while ignoring the basics fundamentals of reading and writing. We need to stop trying to be all things to all people in primary education to young minds and get back to competing with the rest of the first world and start turning out some kids that can actually spell and read. Evolution or creationism can be taught to those inquiring minds that want to take it in college. Neither should be forced on anyone.

[stepped_in_it]

HMMM.....I can see it now. 250 days of class to explain Evolution......6 days to explain Creationism. I mean, just how long does it take to explain creationism...."poof, there we are"