URINE THE ARMY NOW

Ladies Can't Pee Outdoors, and Other Reasons They 'Shouldn't Be in Combat'

Those reasons include men's bathroom-shyness, too

Jan 29, 2013 by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

Image: AJC

Since women were officially allowed in military combat last week, a number of pundits and ex-military men have been explaining why this is Not A Good Idea.

Reasons range from the reasonable to the ridiculous – the most ludicrous involving women's sanitary needs, as Slate's William Saletan points out in the punningly-titled "Urine the Army Now." He quotes Jerry Boykin, a former lieutenant general, who is concerned that women won't be able to hack the gross conditions of extended deployment:

"During operations of this kind there is typically no access to a base of operations or facilities," writes Boykin. "Consequently, living conditions can be abysmal and base. There is routinely no privacy or ability to maintain personal hygiene for extended periods. Soldiers and Marines have to relieve themselves within sight of others."

Taking an opposite yet related tack, former Marine infantryman Ryan Smith argues that men will be humiliated by having to poop in front of women:

"Many Marines developed dysentery...When an uncontrollable urge hit a Marine, he would be forced to stand, as best he could, hold an MRE bag up to his rear, and defecate inches from his seated comrade's face," writes Smith. "It is humiliating enough to relieve yourself in front of your male comrades; one can only imagine the humiliation of being forced to relieve yourself in front of the opposite sex."

Via Slate and the Wall Street Journal.

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?	What do you think of the arguments made against women in combat?

All : 148

Comments (view in Forum)

Jan '13

NormalFlora

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Those comments are puerile.
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Jan '13

PoliticalSpice

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So ladies didn't pee for centuries, till indoor plumbing was developed? How would have thought?
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Jan '13

Malitia_Man

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@PoliticalSpice

I'm on a conference call right now, I think you need to be on!!!

559-726-1200

Ext. 270082#
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Jan '13

tinfoil

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obviously they've never read. Available at Amazon
How to Shit in the Woods, Second Edition: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art [Paperback]
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Jan '13

Denizen_Kate

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Women who join the military and sign up for combat duty are not the shy, retiring type. They aren't that delicate. The boys will just have to get over their shyness. Shit happens.
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Post @Denizen_Kate
Jan '13

PoliticalSpice

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@Malitia_Man missed a lot of the call, because i didn't check messages for awhile, but i did get on. Very interesting to learn the right is actually doing something about ndaa.
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Jan '13

JustTheFacts

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Sexist and complete BS!
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Jan '13

JustTheFacts

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I'm surprised someone didn't express concern over women's menstruation attracting bears ... and of course frightening the men away ... lol.
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Jan '13

woodtick57

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@JustTheFacts

i think it's the wolves that that attracts....sheesh!
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Jan '13

wild_turkey6

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@JustTheFacts Are you happy now, Obama. Now we have to worry about bears.
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Jan '13

kathyparsell

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@wild_turkey6 LMFAO
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Jan '13

Infinity

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@JustTheFacts Don't forget the sharks it could attract!
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Jan '13

Rocker

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Well, to be honest, it changed when I also read an article that said female service member's 'unintended' pregnancies were on the rise.
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Jan '13

mwr

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silly
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Jan '13

stepped_in_it

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Are the Marines afraid that a woman can out poop and pee them? Hey, I knew some women who could pee out their name....then mine without stopping....I was impressed!
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Jan '13

Denizen_Kate

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Your new avatar may be an indication of a twisted mind. Just sayin' . . .
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Jan '13

stepped_in_it

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@Denizen_Kate Is this a lil less twisted ;-)
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Jan '13

Denizen_Kate

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@stepped_in_it - Just a little. . . . ;)
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Jan '13

DARSB

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First, let's note retired Gen Boykin is a senior exec at fundigelical Focus on the Family. Second, why is a seasoned combat vet so freaked out over the possibility of a soldier or Marine seeing lady parts?

The horror...
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Jan '13

rkinsawjoe

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In all fairness, I've seen some lady parts that could rattle SEAL team 6.
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Jan '13

bsking

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That's ridiculous of course they can pee outdoors.... I knew 1 girl who could aim just like a man.
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Jan '13

Vallsunn

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So true Iv'e seen women have perfect aim right on the street and toss you a smile when they are done
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Jan '13

hwyangel

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As a lady truck driver I can attest to that, I do it all time on the side of the road and standing between the drives. But I still don't agree with women in combat even if they can give them hormones to prevent menstruation. And even if the female population takes another drastic decline. And even despite the physical disadvantages.
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Jan '13

albe

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This is the same thought my dad iterated in the 1960's when I asked him if women are wanting to be equal won't they be going to war, so i won't go ,knowing of course many men die in war.Why is that so? Could women not stop men from going by announcing that no favors on return, but alas we now know the baby boom started, instead. War does benefit the wealthy, will women support this, too?
Anyway yes the poop and pee response is not unique, my dad added that men did on occasion wash their gentials in their helmets ,rather than risk doing a wash in an unknown stream.
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Jan '13

Neo_NtheMatrix

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Again, a brigade of self righteous Politix posters rush in to denigrate possible hurdles to integrated combat missions. Is there no end to the know-it-all-ness of Politix posters. Maybe we should fire the Congress and the military command and let the Politix posters run it all. They seem to have all the answers.
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Jan '13

Rocker

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'Chairborne Commandos', Neo. Get with the lexicon. LOL
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Jan '13

Libertyiskey

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I'm all for firing Congress and giving myself and my peers here on Politix to give it a shot!
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Jan '13

tinfoil

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suggest you read this it's available at all bookstores Amazon. B&N etc
How to Shit in the Woods, Second Edition: An Environmentally Sound Approach to a Lost Art [Paperback]
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Jan '13

Rocker

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@tinfoil - Is there a chapter in it about being able to whizz over a 'ten rail fence' too???? LOL
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Jan '13

wild_turkey6

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This is starting to be a habit with me agreeing with you. I often shake my head with all the so called experts on military matters that seem to know all of the answers.
Do you remember all the predictions about drops in recruitment and retention, mission failure, and orgies in the showers when DADT was repelled? How did that turn out?
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Jan '13

blue_yahoo

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I think all the reasons are well..........pretty shitty
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Jan '13

slov

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It would be safe to reason that a female that enlist in the military is bush broke. Man are some really bored people sitting around in a office somewhere on their fat butt bored coming up with some of this...lol
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Jan '13

NTBFW

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I don't think women should be in combat infantry units. But not because of men watching me pee! Im sure there are pervs out there that are into that. My objection has to do with physical ability. I doubt the assertion that women can carry the load day in and day out. There may be a few but not many.
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Jan '13

stepped_in_it

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If they would just come out and say women can be in combat BUT they must pass the same requirements as a man.....equality rights will be happy!
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Jan '13

NTBFW

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@stepped_in_it I do think it will cause more problems than its worth. It may not be PC or fair, but it could effect morale and that isn't acceptable.
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Jan '13

NTBFW

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@stepped_in_it but I admit I would rather not watch soldiers poop in a bag. But if you gotta go....
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Jan '13

wild_turkey6

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@stepped_in_it I wished that I could up vote you more than once. At least in the Army, push up(upper body strength) and 2 mile run (cardio endurance) are different standards. I thin all services have different standards.
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Jan '13

MOVet

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@wild_turkey6 women are graded far differently then men. This bias is now a huge issue because it places much weaker soldiers in a very physically demanding environment. Please read my petition, if you agree sign it and pass along to your friends thanks.

http://wh.gov/yoeM
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Jan '13

Realthinker

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They can, but it isn't pleasant, and dealing with one's period while on the front lines? That could lead to medical problems, due to poor hygiene. It would put an added burden on the women, and aren't we always complaining we have an undue burden men do not have? So why ask for more? Seriously ladies, why do that to ourselves when there are other ways to serve? Then there is the problem of how enemy combatants would deal with captured female prisoners. Rape is a given and the enemy is NOT going to tolerate a feminist lecture to the contrary. This is another lib idea with unintended consequences.
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Jan '13

Dan_Tien

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Females do risk rape if captured But do you know what? So do males. Have you ever seen the movie "Lawrence of Arabia"? What do you think happened to Lawrence when he was captured by the Turks?
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Jan '13

Chanel

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umm...in other countries our enemies are more interested in young men and little boys for sexual pleasure. women are strictly for reproduction...sad but its the truth...and women in the military are at risk of higher levels of sexual assault than civilians regardless of their job description...go watch "Invisible War"...a moving documentary
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Jan '13

culinary

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First, women's periods can be stopped with birth control. And no, they don't have to take a pill everyday. Next, rape can happen to anybody. The only concern I have is physical ability. If the ladies can hump it rifht along side the guys, USING THE SAME STANDARDS AS THE MEN, by all means let them do it.
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Post @culinary
Jan '13

hankf68

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@Dan_Tien ...women risk rape just by joining the military, one of its so-called dirty secrets, I sure wouldn't want one of my daughters entering the current military, or my son's either for that matter and I think the Turks of the old days preferred boys...
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Jan '13

hankf68

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@Chanel ...agreed, excellent documentary, eye opening...
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Jan '13

AtheistStand

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Ok a couple of things.......

1. Men also squat when doing a BM (Bowel Movement)
2. Us ladies have already addressed and solved this problem, see web site below:

www.go-girl.com

(Also a nice smooth piece of thick soft plastic can be bent to make our "inferior" pee anatomy shoot a nice clean stream.)
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Jan '13

Vance1

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What do you think of the arguments made against women in combat?

its indeed a very bad idea, they will get allot of good men killed
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Jan '13

USMCrepublican

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@Vance1 I do believe you are right sir I honestly do not believe that a women could handle to stress of a fire fight or react appropriately in a intense situation.
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Jan '13

falco_alba

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@USMCrepublican

So nurses that don't carry weapons but get caught in firefights...they pull up their skirts and wait for the big strong men to save them?

Military training includes handling firefights. That goes for women as well. Women have won medals for bravery in combat situations.
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Jan '13

Hachachacha

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@USMCrepublican Oh really, and I suppose all those female emergency room doctors and nurses and policewomen don't know how to "react appropriately in an intense situation"? What a stupid chauvanist comment. I have more balls than you do in my pinky. I know many men who faint at the sight of their own blood and are too afraid to pass tractor trailers on the highway! Most women could handle combat much better than they could!
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Jan '13

MOVet

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@Hachachacha some women very well could. However I have seen very few in my years that could and would handle the rigors of a frontline infantry, scout or sf unit. We don't all pass out at the sight of blood as I have been covered in it a time or two in my career. And I have passed more than just tractor trailers during missions that required specific skills. You preach like you are such a stone cold killer. I have met many like you and most have a.never deployed b.never left the fob c.was a tower guard that overlooked a base pizza hut. No offense but women are a huge logistical burden that I believe will cause many many problems. Also the military sees women as the weaker sex as they require less of them physically on fitness tests than men. Until I see standards chaged and equalized for a level playing field I will say no to women in a combat unit. Running missions via a truck is different than walking hours with all your gear without resupply. It is physically demanding and based on how women are graded the vast majority are not close to being qualified.
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Jan '13

MOVet

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@MOVet if anyone wants to sign and share my petition asking the White House for equal across the board standards here is a link:

http://wh.gov/yoeM
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Jan '13

WattheTyler

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The right wing loons in America are worse than Muslims fundamentalists in their hatard towards women.
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Jan '13

twinertia

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I know! I mean, why'd they go to Boykin, of all people, for commentary? He wants women kept barefoot and pregnant according to the good will of his "savior".
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Jan '13

Kellso

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If they want to play tough guys and go into combat then they shoudl be ready to crawl around in crap and guts and blood and not think one second about relieving themselves in public
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Jan '13

Denizen_Kate

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My point exactly. The women who sign up for combat duty are unlikely to be delicate types.
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Jan '13

PuroChorizo361

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Women are weak links but I say if they wanna act like a man they can be treated like one also. Women outnumber men anyway so who better to put in the front line like crash test dummies!
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Jan '13

texas_cutie75

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Ha! That is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a while. When I go camping business has to be handled outdoors, but I sure wouldn't want to go into combat!!
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Jan '13

Dan_Tien

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"Jerry Boykin, a former lieutenant general, who is concerned that women won't be able to hack the gross conditions of extended deployment."

Apparently, Boykin has never watched an episode of "Jerry Springer".
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Jan '13

kathyparsell

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You ARE the father!
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What do you think of the arguments made against women in combat?