LAPD SHOOTING

Panicked LAPD Fire 20+ Rounds at Women in Manhunt for Rogue Cop

'How do you mistake two Hispanic women, one who is 71, for a large black male?' ask local resident

Feb 9, 2013 by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

More details emerged on Friday about the shooting of two innocent women during the manhunt for suspected LA cop killer Christopher Jordan Dorner.

The women were shot by panicked police who'd heard a radio message warning about the sighting of a pickup similar to Dorner's gray Nissan Titan.

When a pickup entered the street in which seven police stood guarding the residence of a top LA police official, they opened fire, unleashing 20 or 30 rounds at the truck.

It was only after they'd stopped shooting that they realized the truck was a blue Toyota Tacoma - not a gray Nissan Titan like Dorner's. And the people inside the vehicle were not suspected cop-killer Dorner, but rather, two innocent women: Margie Carranza, 47, and her mother, Emma Hernandez, 71, who were delivering the LA Times.

"How do you mistake two Hispanic women, one who is 71, for a large black male?" asked Richard Goo, a local resident quoted in the LA Times. Both women are expected to recover, though Hernandez, who was shot twice in the back, is still in intensive care.

The women's attorney Glen Jonas describes a terrifying ordeal: "there was no warning. There were no orders. No commands. Just gunshots." He's not impressed with the police explanation of a "tragic mistake." "The vehicle is a different color. The license plate doesn't match. There's nothing there for you to start shooting people. And even if they had the person in question...Mr. Dorner...you still have to give them an opportunity to get out. You can't just start administering street justice," said Jonas.

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck told the LA Times that his officers were experiencing "incredible tension" just hours after Dorner had shot three other officers. There'll be an investigation into whether police were justified in opening fire, and those involved could be penalized or receive extra training.

Via CBS and the LA Times. H/T Politix user PNWest.

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?	Were police in this case too quick to shoot, or do their actions sound justified?

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Comments (view in Forum)

Feb '13

Vance1

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panicked police? this is exactly why "Those banned AR 15's" also need to be taken away from the POLICE!!
If liberals want to Ban weapons, These police also need to be included in these weapon laws.
Shooting at innocent lady's!!! OMG Bat shyt Crazy!!!
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Feb '13

OhWiseOne

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Amen brother!
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Feb '13

Vance1

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@OhWiseOne

Thanks, These lib's that want to rely on "THE POLICE" to take care of them.
I find it funny as all hell!!
Trust a Cop to protect your family......OMG!!
NO WAY!!
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Feb '13

OhWiseOne

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@Vance1 I couldn't agree with you more.
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Feb '13

Keyjo

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I'm surprised Vance! I didn't see you as a pro gun control type of guy
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Feb '13

Vance1

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@Keyjo
Funny!
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Feb '13

Penn1699

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My office is just down the street from where this happened. I knew about it before it hit the news.
This is totally unlike the Nissan Titan - Gray they were after, including the sex of the crazy at large. This isnot the only unarmed persons ambushed by police trying to "get" this Dormer guy.
I don't here them taking those cops off the streets...
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Feb '13

PoliticalSpice

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No, they almost never punish cops for this stuff. People need guns to protect against cops mote then anything else. They kill unarmed people all the time by "mistake" and the shootings are always found justifiable. Self defense against trigger happy cops is justifiable too...
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Feb '13

Penn1699

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@PoliticalSpice it should be...
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Feb '13

Calfkiller

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@PoliticalSpice Amen! I've been saying that for years. I don't for a minute believe what the media is feeding us. What I do believe is that if the police have their backs to the wall and are in fear for their lives, it is long over due. Especially in LA.
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Post @Calfkiller
Feb '13

Calfkiller

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and you won't either. The article said something about whether or not the officers should be retrained. How about recycled. I see more sense of justice coming from Mr. Dorner than I do the Gestapo.
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Feb '13

PoliticalSpice

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@Calfkiller Well what these cops did in shooting at these women without any warning, without opportunity to surrender is the very type of thing Dormer warned about in this manifesto they keep talking about this shooting basically proves him right...
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Feb '13

Penn1699

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By the way. This is a neon metallic Toyota Tacoma Pre-Runner which is a small truck. NOT the Grey full size Nissan Titan they were looking for.
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Feb '13

PNWest

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I put in a request to the editors to post this story. I know that there are some law enforcement officers that post here and I would like to get some feedback from them as to how something like this could happen. To an average citizen this looks like the cops went nuts and started shooting before they knew what was going on. Hopefully someone with law enforcement experience can comment on what may have been going on and how this kind of mistake could have been made.
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Feb '13

PolitixMary K

Mary Noble, Senior Editor

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Hey PN, great story suggestion and much appreciated. Added a H/T to you in the piece.
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Feb '13

PNWest

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@PolitixMary Thanks Ms. Mary!
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Feb '13

OhWiseOne

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Good story.
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Feb '13

Vance1

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@OhWiseOne

You wanna see another one?
Legal Immigrant Schools Gun Grabbers In Connecticut On Gun History In America

http://freedomoutpost.com/2013/02/legal-immig...
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Feb '13

OhWiseOne

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@Vance1 Wow! Great video. We could use more LEGAL immigrants like him. Thanks for the info.
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Feb '13

DavidRobertson

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What cop needs 20 rounds? They obviously suck at shooting as much as they suck at identifying suspects. Give them pepper spray and rape whistles.
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Feb '13

Vance1

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Amen!! Most cops can't even qualify at the gun range
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Feb '13

TheJimmy

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I think after being outgunned during the 1997 North Hollywood Shootout that the LAPD had no other choice but to expand their arsenal to "assault rifles."
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Feb '13

PoliticalSpice

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In NYC they have gunned down unarmed blacks with 46 and over 60 rounds. It what cops do.
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Feb '13

DavidRobertson

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@TheJimmy

But machine guns are illegal in California.
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Feb '13

DavidRobertson

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@PoliticalSpice

And they say southerners are racists.
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Feb '13

SignifiedNBlue

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Unreal! They are insane! This is pure crazy chit!,these cops are unstable lunatics with guns and badges and now they take away innocent peoples guns?/? WTF???
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Feb '13

SavageMazx

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I have trained at a police range, they are some of the most incompetent individuals when it comes to properly handling a firearm. I have seen 2 negligent discards while at police ranges that inches from head shots, the problem is that these were down the firing line, not down range. I dont go to police ranges anymore, even when I am asked to assist with training.
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Feb '13

SignifiedNBlue

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@SavageMazx its scarey. 20 rounds. Just is beyond deranged.
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Feb '13

Roco

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I see lawsuit coming. How can you mistake blue for silver? Are this guys color blind? I can understand being hyped up but this seemed to be a bit overboard.
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Feb '13

Denizen_Kate

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Don't they screen potential police officers for this sort of panic response? Shoot first and ask questions later? When has that ever been okay?
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Feb '13

Republican5001

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All day long in my book...Rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
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Feb '13

tomincali

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and this is who the libs think should be called instead of defending ones self with their own firearm. safer calling the local gang.
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Feb '13

frigginhell

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So your arguement is that poorly trained civilians with no accountability are more desirable than poorly trained cops? How about raising the standards of the law enforcement and getting rid of the incompetent ones. Raising their pay so we can get people more qualified for the positions. Quit hiring practices that hurt a man's chances to become a cop because they're to smart of the job. All the while still making it illegal to own high capacity magazines and clips. I bet you didn't think it was possible to do more than one thing did you.
Anyhoo, your distraction from the story aside, I'd really be interested in knowing if the two officers who opened fire were on the hitlist this nutjob wrote up. If they were whoever thought they should still be on duty needs to be held accountable as well.
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Feb '13

thumper11

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@frigginhell,
It's an indisputable fact of record that Millions of times every year armed private citizens employ firearms to thwart crime – usually without ever firing a single shot. And when they do actually fire their weapons, they are more successful in stopping the criminal – with far fewer collateral casualties – than all the police put together.

References:
"Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of self-Defense with a Gun" by Dr. Gary Kleck, Ph. D – Criminologist

"The impact of gun control and gun ownership levels on violence rates." Journal of Quantitative Criminology 9(3):249-287 " by Dr. Gary Kleck, Ph. D – Criminologist

“Why do people support gun control?” Journal of Criminal Justice 37(5) " by Dr. Gary Kleck, Ph. D – Criminologist
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Feb '13

mtkopf

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@thumper11 lay off the kool-aid dude. It is definitely NOT millions of times every year.
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Feb '13

HooverNiebold

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@frigginhell

Hey listen they have quotas to fill, you know diversity and shit. Suggesting they stop this practice is obviously racist.
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Feb '13

tomincali

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@frigginhell cops are not poorly trained some just do not be in that line of work! have seen this a few times in my town,now those guys did need some more time at the range.

what i am saying these cops showed no self control,firing a weapon and not knowing the target.

all the training in the world cannot help some.
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Feb '13

Medicinebow

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And folks.are worried about ccw holders
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Feb '13

harold_lloyd

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This doesn't speak well to the training and professionalism of the department.
And it's going to cost them a bundle, deservedly so.
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Feb '13

whataGOVwehave

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Sounds like someone needs to be limited to LOW capacity magazines.
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Feb '13

Polusalo

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Were they justified? No, of course not. Would I have done the same thing? Very probable. If I were a police officer there and knew there was a guy rolling around with a .50 rifle and a shoulder missile launcher, I'd probably be shooting anything that moved.

"Guys! I got him! He disguised himself as Mrs. Yorderlson's cat, but I got him!"

The scary thing is, the guy is trained and if he really has the .50 like they believe, then if he starts shooting at people at a distance the weapon is capable, the bullet will hit them before they even hear the sound of the gun going off.
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Feb '13

JamesR

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Sounds like typical lapd to me. I have observed these officers up close and personal on a number of occasions. They are without a doubt the most incompetent poorly trained officers I have ever seen.
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Feb '13

wonka45ACP

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and to think they will away with this . because as sure as the sun comes up in the morning
this will be justified in some way by big politicians" we serve under"
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Feb '13

wonka45ACP

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wow when you get so angry its hard to type!!!.. they will get away with this.
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Feb '13

zeke

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Sounds like their scraping the bottom of the barrel these days for recruits, or maybe they should carry their bullet in their pocket until needed!
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Feb '13

mimi57

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You mean like Barney Fife? LOL
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Feb '13

Vance1

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@mimi57

Yea sort of
Like this
Panetta can't explain why Obama never called back during Benghazi attack
compaired to the incompendence of the LAPA, its nothing...LOL
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Post @Vance1
Feb '13

DogLady_1

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even worse, they are recruiting too many combat veterans... and policing your own people is way different from fighting a foreign enemy. I'm not saying these cops were veterans, but we are hearing more and more about abuse of power and use of excessive force by new recruits who have not been properly trained out of their military mind-set to being civillian peace officers.
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Feb '13

MOVet

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@DogLady_1 even in a theater of war a soldier could not just open up on a suspected vehicle. There are rules of engagment. For you to assume that they are recruiting to many conbat veterans shows your lack of understanding of just what you are talking about. I've seen more gun slinging civilians than combat veterans.
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Feb '13

Republican5001

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@MOVet Here Here...
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Feb '13

culinary

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If he has a .50, he's not going to drive down the street. He's gonna fire long distance. If he has HALF what they say he does, they'll never see it coming.
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Feb '13

NTBFW

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I've been trying to tell you that it's a bad idea to depend on the police to protect you. The average cop doesn't get enough training.
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Feb '13

AlexMIA

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Are they trying to take the assualt rifles away from the right people?
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Feb '13

DARSB

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Not to put too fine a point on it, but if trained law enforcement can make this sort of numbskull mistake it casts serious doubt on the ability of the guy down the steet with a GED and a Bushmaster to be trusted with that level of weaponry.
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Feb '13

NTBFW

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The cops I train wouldn't do this.
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Feb '13

AlexMIA

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I haven't shot anyone yet. LOL
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Feb '13

Quick

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The damage could have been the same or worse with 12 gauge slugs or 00 buck.
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Feb '13

mimi57

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@AlexMIA Thats good, it's always best to use it as a last resort... ( :
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Feb '13

HooverNiebold

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Oddly enough citizens identity their target before shooting. Hell even criminals do the majority of the time.
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Politix

Were police in this case too quick to shoot, or do their actions sound justified?