pWere the pilgrims illegal immigrants?

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Results

57 %

No, of course not

31 %

Yes, they were

12 %

I can see both sides

@Feb '13 c 233 comments V 373 votes

Detailed Results Next Debate Vote Now

Activity Stmts Popular

373 Votes

1 hr
Greatkaven voted

v Yes, they were
9 hr
pat310 voted

v No, of course not
u

13 hr
RepomanGP endorsed spiritglove

v No, of course not
14 hr
Knightkore endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
Tue

FreelancerFl

v I can see both sides

Consider the following, there was no defined nation at the time, and the Indian tribes didn't have the same definition of land ownership as the Europeans. So, if the Indians did share the same definition of land ownership they could be considered illegal immigrants because they took land from the Indians, sometimes by force.

Post
u

Tue
Jer11274 endorsed ASmith

v Yes, they were
Tue
9MileTrucking voted

v I can see both sides
o

Mon
randy28 voted

v No, of course not
u

Mon
Just_Lisa endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
u

Mon
DesignerLM voted

v No, of course not
Mon
ccchhhrrriiiss endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
May 19

mikev9359

v Yes, they were

Technically, yes. But at that time there were no set government to dictate law in this hemisphere as there was in Europe and Asia. Once the people who migrated here banded together and formed a government with laws, then it became an issue for those coming within those territories.

Post
May 19
solodad voted

v No, of course not
u

May 19

fayban

v No, of course not

Of course not. We were conqueros then and still are whats the problem. This is our country won by war. All immigrants here currently should feel privileged we allow them here. What country wasn't built by war?

r1 reply

Post
May 18
doggie_luv voted

v I can see both sides
u

May 18
marcyr voted

v No, of course not
May 18
sillybilly1b voted

v No, of course not
May 18
rickv2 endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
u

May 17

Gatnos

v No, of course not

This is an example of the trash that is being taught in schools these days. It is part of the "Common Core" curriculum. In order for an activity to be illegal, there must be a law against that activity. No immigration laws existed at the time of the pilgrims.

r4 replies

Post
u

May 17
DrSilicon voted

v No, of course not
u

May 17
Obsidion voted

v I can see both sides
May 17
Zach endorsed DanielZ

v I can see both sides
u

May 16
Dumee endorsed gammler

v No, of course not
u

May 16

HawkTheSlayer

v No, of course not

And the forces that be are still trying, albeit for entirely different reasons. The afore mentioned groups all came here to have a better life, even the pilgrims, and sacrificed much to get here. They endured the hardships, era by era. The fight was an internal struggle with winners and losers from the inception of this nation through the struggles of cival war to modern day. This nation can resolve any problem or difference it has. That used to be my thinking until the '90's. The outside influence is strong. And getting stronger every day. Those who wish american success today do not have american values. Sadly, this includes many americans. Especially, those i...

Post
May 16
littlewolf8469 voted

v No, of course not
u

May 16
Decent-Dissent endorsed Litdes

v Yes, they were
u

May 15
o_oo_e endorsed spiritglove

v No, of course not
May 14

MongoAPillager

v No, of course not

We came,We saw,We kicked Ass,GET OVER IT!!! Moral of the story,right or wrong,Don,t bring a stick to a gun fight!!!

r3 replies

Post
May 14
Denizen_Kate endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
May 14
RadAuthNat endorsed gammler

v No, of course not
u

May 13
Rpete endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
May 13
tarakitten endorsed DanielZ

v I can see both sides
May 12
rangerjeff voted

v No, of course not
May 12
Fyi1957 endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not
u

May 10
captbigtime endorsed gammler

v No, of course not
May 9
Rocker voted

v I can see both sides
u

May 9
Bill voted

v No, of course not
May 9
LEC endorsed Dan_Tien

v Yes, they were
u

May 9
JLove endorsed bobrob

v Yes, they were
u

May 8
MaxPain voted

v Yes, they were
May 7
that1guy voted

v No, of course not
u

May 7
LilliB voted

v No, of course not
u

May 7
nagydonnac voted

v No, of course not
May 6
Johnnytj voted

v Yes, they were
u

May 6
gitrdone8383 voted

v No, of course not
u

May 6

URBS

v No, of course not

Funny how this debate uses, "Illegal" while all the other ones use, "Undocumented".

Post
May 6
Sergey_Knobler endorsed gammler

v No, of course not
May 6
PaulUK2901 voted

v Yes, they were
May 6

PayThatCEO

v No, of course not

To have been "illegal" there would have had to be an immigration policy, which there wasn't. There would have had to be a country, which there wasn't. What the pilgrims (as well as those who came after them) was land owned by no one. Native Americans did not own the land. They had no deeds, no titles to anything. Legally, they owned nothing so nothing could be taken away. In their minds they might have thought they owned whatever land they sat on, but even tribes fought over ownership of land and once white men got to America they brought the rule of law with them.

Post
May 6
Aftermath endorsed Thunderchicken

v No, of course not

Tue

FreelancerFl

v I can see both sides

Consider the following, there was no defined nation at the time, and the Indian tribes didn't have the same definition of land ownership as the Europeans. So, if the Indians did share the same definition of land ownership they could be considered illegal immigrants because they took land from the Indians, sometimes by force.

Post
May 19

mikev9359

v Yes, they were

Technically, yes. But at that time there were no set government to dictate law in this hemisphere as there was in Europe and Asia. Once the people who migrated here banded together and formed a government with laws, then it became an issue for those coming within those territories.

Post
u

May 19

fayban

v No, of course not

Of course not. We were conqueros then and still are whats the problem. This is our country won by war. All immigrants here currently should feel privileged we allow them here. What country wasn't built by war?

r1 reply

Post
Tue

FreelancerFl

New Zealand?

Post @FreelancerFl
u

May 17

Gatnos

v No, of course not

This is an example of the trash that is being taught in schools these days. It is part of the "Common Core" curriculum. In order for an activity to be illegal, there must be a law against that activity. No immigration laws existed at the time of the pilgrims.

r4 replies

Post
Tue

FreelancerFl

Actually, if the Indians viewed land ownership in the way the Europeans did, they would be considered illegal immigrants.

Post @FreelancerFl
u

Tue

Gatnos

@FreelancerFl But that's not the case, is it?

Post @Gatnos
10 hr

FreelancerFl

@Gatnos Since there were no immigration laws at the time there was no such thing as illegal immigration.

Post @FreelancerFl
u

5 hr

Gatnos

@FreelancerFl Correct!

Post @Gatnos
u

May 16

HawkTheSlayer

v No, of course not

And the forces that be are still trying, albeit for entirely different reasons. The afore mentioned groups all came here to have a better life, even the pilgrims, and sacrificed much to get here. They endured the hardships, era by era. The fight was an internal struggle with winners and losers from the inception of this nation through the struggles of cival war to modern day. This nation can resolve any problem or difference it has. That used to be my thinking until the '90's. The outside influence is strong. And getting stronger every day. Those who wish american success today do not have american values. Sadly, this includes many americans. Especially, those i...

Post
May 14

MongoAPillager

v No, of course not

We came,We saw,We kicked Ass,GET OVER IT!!! Moral of the story,right or wrong,Don,t bring a stick to a gun fight!!!

r3 replies

Post
May 16

Decent-Dissent

Mongo only pawn in game of life.

B2

Post @Decent-Dissent
May 16

MongoAPillager

@Decent-Dissent don, t know where choo choo went

Post @MongoAPillager
Tue

FreelancerFl

Rather, bring a knife to a gun fight. Stab them in the throat while they're laughing.

Post @FreelancerFl
u

May 6

URBS

v No, of course not

Funny how this debate uses, "Illegal" while all the other ones use, "Undocumented".

Post
May 6

PayThatCEO

v No, of course not

To have been "illegal" there would have had to be an immigration policy, which there wasn't. There would have had to be a country, which there wasn't. What the pilgrims (as well as those who came after them) was land owned by no one. Native Americans did not own the land. They had no deeds, no titles to anything. Legally, they owned nothing so nothing could be taken away. In their minds they might have thought they owned whatever land they sat on, but even tribes fought over ownership of land and once white men got to America they brought the rule of law with them.

Post
May 6

Prime_Meridian

v Yes, they were

Yes. By legal definition. If the Native Americans didn't give them permission to come here and establish colonies, that alone makes them "illegal immigrants", but then, so were the Native Americans who first came here from across the Bering Straits, from the South Seas and from Europe. There WERE people living in the Americas way back then. Just like we had TINY HORSES here before they became extinct and the Spaniards imported European and Arabic varieties of horses.

r1 reply

Post
May 6

PayThatCEO

No permission was needed. In the eyes of the law we believed in then and believe in now, Native Americans owned nothing in the way of land.

Post @PayThatCEO
May 5

Goose

v No, of course not

"Illegal" means against the law(s). Only civilized societies have those.

Post
u

May 4

DotsonB

v Yes, they were

Last time I checked they weren't citizens of The United States when they came here.

Post
May 4

NoAmnestyEVER

v No, of course not

How can you be an illegal immigrant when there's no country and no borders to immigrate to?

Post
May 2

lawnmowrman

v Yes, they were

The North American continent, previously known as Cemanahuac, was occupied by a number of different nations. The rigid definition of nation that most embrace prevents most from recognizing those nations as nations. They were there with their people who had their own languages and cultures and arts. Europeans arrived proclaiming friendship only to turn to savagery. Please don't point out that the nations here had no legal system. Must a nation have a legal system that we would recognize as being a legal system to be a nation?

Post
May 2

JTHEM

v I can see both sides

This sounds like the third school of sophism (ancient Greece for you who skipped this course). My mixed race ancestry makes me retort that Indians were also illegal immigrants as were any people who left Africa. Native Americans have been in this hemisphere for at least 12,000 years--illegally. My H-haploid tribe left Turkey 10,000 years ago to settle northern Europe illegally since the Neanderthals were there. This convoluted discussion is making me LOL.

Post
Apr 29

MarkColwell

v Yes, they were

They were invaders, they didn't come to work and earn an honest living... they came to practice their brand of religious extremism and to steal the land away from the people who lived here.

r2 replies

Post
May 4

NoAmnestyEVER

If you really feel that way you should self deport, for the sins of your ancestors.

Post @NoAmnestyEVER
May 5

MarkColwell

@NoAmnestyEVER The pilgrims are not my ancestors.

Post @MarkColwell
u

Apr 27

fraps

v No, of course not

There are natural laws that need be for society to operate. These natural laws, or rights, are the right to life and the right to property. They can be put more elegantly, but, simple is sufficient. These laws make murder, theft, slavery, etc. wrong. The pilgrims did not take anything from anyone. They did not kill anyone. They formed a socialist community and almost perished. Later armed forces from England. France, Holland, and Spain came to this land and claimed territory. That was theft and therefore wrong.

Post
Apr 26
Post Removed by Moderators
o

Apr 25

Worktogetger

v No, of course not

I am a kid and I have this app. No because they moved from the church of England to get free religion an spread their own religion

Post
u

Apr '13

BLA1287

v No, of course not

No because there was no country established. No connection between pilgrims and illegal immigrants , expect the fact that are fleeing their own country to better themselfs ,

r3 replies

Post
o

Apr 25

TheHandsomeOne

When and if things get bad here, try going anywhere that you do not speak the language of the native people and because THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU, determine there is no nation or any form of governance. Then you can repeat history and wholesale massacre and slaughter as many of them as it takes for you to be satisfied that nation's natives have surrendered and are under control.

Post @TheHandsomeOne
u

Apr 27

BLA1287

@TheHandsomeOne ok so youre saying that the indians had immigration laws being that neither group knew each other existed...so with that being said there would for no reason to have laws or rules pertaining to immigration. So I really dont understand the reply or the whole thing THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOU ..kinda ridiculous view point but each to their own

Post @BLA1287
o

Apr 28

TheHandsomeOne

@BLA1287 Fairer and more accurate would have been, 'were the settlers within their rights to massacre and slaughter the native people of a land they were invading to take over?' The question is falsely predicated upon today's standard of legality during a time when things were lawful and righteous, or not. With the two systems of law having so very little in common, our courts today will not hear or recognize and rulings, precedents or determinations made pretty much before WWII. "Illegal" wasn't a relevant term in our courts prior, and for the largest part of our nation's existence. The point to my invective is, the natives did indeed have laws and those w...

Post @TheHandsomeOne
Apr '13

spytheweb

v No, of course not

They had the same amount of paperwork that the Indians had when they showed up.

Post
R Load more comments...

Feb '13

Thunderchicken

v No, of course not

How can an act be illegal if there is no law against it?

B3

r12 replies

e53 endorsed

Post
Feb '13

Dan_Tien

v Yes, they were

...and the Native Americans tribes either didn't have the sense or the power to make them leave. Some of them said "Live and let live. They are already here. Let them live among us as neighbors and equals. What could it hurt?" Then look what happened.

r13 replies

e20 endorsed

Post
Feb '13

gammler

v No, of course not

What a ridiculous question! Using the same logic one could say the American Indians were illegal immigrants. They came from Asia.

B1

e18 endorsed

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Feb '13

spiritglove

v No, of course not

For the Pilgrims to be illegal immigrants there would have to be a law that defined any non-native as an immigrant and a system of immigration. the Native Americans believed the idea of owning land to be repugnant, they considered themselves part of the land. Pilgrams can be considered settlers, or invaders even but illegal immigrant status would require a body of laws that did not exist at the time. What a stupid controversy.

e13 endorsed

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u

Feb '13

Litdes

v Yes, they were

Either that or thieves. Takes your pick.

r1 reply

e9 endorsed

Post
Feb '13

DanielZ

v I can see both sides

To the extent that native people welcomed them, no; to the extent that they cheated and killed native people, yes.

e7 endorsed

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Feb '13

methinks

v No, of course not

Illegal immigrants to what country? There were various native tribes here, but there was no formal country with formal laws.

B1

r3 replies

e5 endorsed

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u

Feb '13

standout

v I can see both sides

my ancesters were cherokees.they did not believe that you owned the land.they also did not believe in lying or stealing.

r2 replies

e6 endorsed

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Feb '13

ASmith

v Yes, they were

They were not just illegal immigrants but imperialists, colonialists and mass murderers. Send them and their descendants back to Europe.

r1 reply

e4 endorsed

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u

Feb '13

bobrob

v Yes, they were

Not only were they illegal, but also immoral. The manner in which they ravished native American women would today get them the penthouse suite the slammer.

r1 reply

e4 endorsed

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