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GUNS AND SCHOOLS

NRA Touring Schools in Push for Armed Guards

Group suggests Congress should fund extra training for 'security officers'

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by Mary Noble

Senior Editor t

Image: Wordpress

The NRA is sending "trained security officials" around the country to gather information for "best practices" and "risk assessment guidelines" for schools, which they'll release in April. The team - which includes federal law enforcement trainers, former Secret Service agents - are also helping schools conduct risk self-assessments.

Heading up the effort is Asa Hutchinson, former Republican congressman and Homeland Security staffer under George W. Bush, who's already shared some of his findings.

Hutchinson suggests that schools need trained armed guards to protect them, which may or may not involve teachers. His team is "looking into whether a designated staff member could be trained to fill the role of a security officer," and he proposes that Congress should fund "additional training." Hutchinson's staff will also assess other factors in school safety, "including the design of the building itself, expected response time from local police, [and] drills that are in place."

As USA Today points out, the security officers would be prohibitively expensive: "The NRA has not determined how every school could afford resource officers...While the salaries vary, officers usually cost a school $50,000 to $80,000 a year."

The NRA's proposal is being dubbed the "good guys with guns" plan, and has already been attacked by those who think the organization merely plans to recommend more guns in schools.

Via USA Today.
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Would you like to see more trained armed guards in schools?

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Comments (view in Forum)

  • PNWest
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    @Fishbone345 After reading your last comment I have visions of some of the right wing posters here picturing an anvil falling on my head.

  • View all 28 replies >

  • MongoAPillager
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    sounds like a good new welfare program,while we are at it might as well let ford pay for more traffic cops as their product kills lots of children in drunk driving accidents and domestic abuse situations
  • frigginhell
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    @MongoAPillager So you're against guards in schools all togather. I agree. Because otherwise you'd be all for everyone else paying for it. I'm certain you don't want that.
  • Dan_Tien
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    @MongoAPillager Right. Asking for private industry to pay for armed guards is welfare, but the NRA (firearm industry lobby) asking the government (taxpayers) to pay for armed guards is not welfare.
  • o
    NTBFW
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    @Dan_Tien you know how much I hate taxes. But I would vote for a tax that provided proper training and screening. Provided it was at the state level and the money go directly to the program and not the teachers union or the general administration fund. I can't believe you would quibble over this. I can't see a way to get the NRA to completely find this. They could provide a huge amount of resources from the top professionals that could provide a specialized lesson plan for a training school. The NRA has the people, facilities and the experience to train the guards properly. They could secure a school well enough that the risk is greater driving them to school than the kids actually being in school.
  • Dan_Tien
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    @NTBFW I "quibble" about this because the estimated cost to employ armed guards for every school in the United States is between $5 billion and $7 billion per year. That does not include the cost of training. I posted a link to this estimate from a British source in another comment thread to this article, but you can look up the number of schools in the US and do the math yourself if you want. Standard annual wages for guards is between $22k to $45k. The more you pay, the better the guard. Want the lowest bidder?

  • View all 24 replies >

  • Fishbone345
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    "Group suggests Congress should fund extra training for 'security officers'"
    Counter idea. Why doesn't the NRA fund it? They have pretty goddamn deep pockets. They float money around in Lobby form in DC like its nothing.
  • o
    NTBFW
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    You will spend all this money try to ban guns etc but want to scrimp on the best way possible to protect the kids? I don't know what to say.
  • AlexMIA
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    @NTBFW It's funny how they complain about spending when it is to their convenience. I wonder what a government study on the correlation between video games and violence costs, or any of the other freedom stripping measures they want cost?
  • o
    NTBFW
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    @AlexMIA it not I'm MY interest. It about protecting the kids. And it wouldn't cost nearly as much as you would think. I'm willing to put MY money up. So take that BS somewhere else. My kids are already out of school.

  • View all 34 replies >

  • Dan_Tien
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    Yeah, you think that it is a great idea to spend more federal funds on a new program, except for when you are complaining about government spending, like in this comment: "These radical democrats are spending this country into GREECE." Spending the US into bankruptcy is okay if the NRA suggests doing it, huh?
  • Dan_Tien
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    @Vance1 Trying to combine too separate issues in order to justify one? The NRA is only asking to add more spending to pay for their suggested program of armed school guards, they are not suggesting removing funds from one program to fund another. Would you also rather "spend our tax dollars keeping children safe" than using them to subsidize gun makers?

    http://www.businessinsider.com/gun-makers-get...
  • Dan_Tien
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    @Vance1 By the way, the total number of public schools as of 2009 was 98,706.
    http://www.edreform.com/2012/04/k-12-facts/

    "...a crude estimate for the overall bill for the placing of an armed guard in every US school could be as much as $7.2bn. If the government only had to cover public schools, the total could be a minimum of $5.4bn."
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/dec/21/n...

    So much for apples. As for oranges: "With a total budget of some $1.1 billion, more than a third of which comes from the federal, state and local governments, Planned Parenthood offers family planning, H.I.V. counseling, treatment for sexually transmitted diseases, cancer screening and other services as well as abortions, mainly to low-income women. Congress has long barred the use of federal money for abortion, but it provides more than $75 million a year to Planned Parenthood affiliates to support family planning for low-income women. Millions more in federal dollars are provided for sex education and, indirectly, through Medicaid and other programs."
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/us/politics...

  • View all 6 replies >

  • scotta
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    I think it is a great idea. If it is good enough for the presidents kids comgress ' kids it.is good enough for mine. My children's and everybody else children's safety is more important than that bunch of ass clowns.
  • scotta
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    @Vance1 yes. You would think they would be against it. Look at all the votes they are not able to buy.if they stopped it they might never be voted out of office again.

  • View all 12 replies >

  • Politic-n
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    Society is fine with protecting our money, gold, banks, casinos, themeparks, retail stores, nightclubs, and streets and towns with armed guards and police, yet balk at protecting our children with the same? There is a disconnect there. Armed faculty and/or administration is the most efficient and quickest/best way to respond to a dangerous threat.
  • jessejaymes
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    In all seriousness (damn that video was funny) I don't see the harm in what the NRA is trying to do. Risk assessment awareness is not a bad thing. I don't think much will come of it but I don't see it as some evil thing either.
  • u
    culinary
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    Considering some of the idiotic things I've read the government is spending money to research lately, I think finally we have a winner!
  • o
    NTBFW
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    Yes. That's exactly the best choice. But I say they need specific training and a lot if it. There are certain schools right now that are working up training programs for this very thing. It won't be cheap but it is worth it. As much money as we are spending why scrimp now on the children. Nothing you can do will make our schools safer than trained professional guards protecting them. Nothing.
  • Rocker
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    The local H.S. just last week during a day break ran an exercise and scenario evolution to see some issues that needs addressing in order to develop training and procedure. I have to say I'm kinda proud of our little town in taking a practical and quick approach to the issue.
  • o
    NTBFW
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    @Rocker that's great! It's going to take local school districts finding solutions to fit their particular needs. But the best way to look at armed guards vs police being called in an emergency has several factors.
    First trained armed guards can do the same things we already trust and expect the police to do now. But they can be where they need to be immediately. Plus depending on the layout of a school, those precious few seconds could give a shooter the chance to take hostages and be able to defend his position from cops coming from outside. If you have guards inside they would be in a much better position to stop him before he got started. The biggest advantage of armed guards is deference. The fact they are there makes it unlikely that anyone try it in the first place. Since they tend to go for easy targets.
  • AntiPorcheria
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    Research USD 501, Topeka Ks. One of my relatives was Chief of School Security for the district. He hired retired and off duty officers with loaded weapons to guard the schools after multiple riots in the 70's. No one ever had to discharge their weapons (and we're talking about 4 high schools, 9 jr high schools and 20 some grade schools.

    However, my relative that has long since retired states that he no longer believes it is the logical course of action. Secure lockdown, no kids leaving campus, unanticipated exits by parental escort only, video monitoring EVERYWHERE are his suggestions. He was in charge of the system for 24 years.
  • u
    AnnieO
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    The doors were locked at Sandy Hook. It didn't stop the killer. I prefer someone to be at my child's school that has a fighting chance of taking down a shooter.
  • AntiPorcheria
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    @AnnieO - I don't know what the answer is.

    Lanza shot his way through a locked glass door at the front of the school. Anyone with a rock has a key to a glass door.

    A secure lock down would be a barred barricade wired into the fire alarms for safety and with a mechanical override under FD/PD control. Not very expensive but very effective. Keep the windows high and you have effectively secured your children in a fortress.

    I am a CC myself, but after listening to my relative talk about his experiences and how things have changed, I tend to follow his lead. The best protection for our children would be to prevent unwanted entry. That has to be cheaper and safer than slinging bullets around the school.
  • u
    AnnieO
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    @AntiPorcheria But you should still be prepared for the worst. I agree those are all good measures but if a gunman gets in, then what? I agree, there is no 100% fix. I think the armed guards idea is worth a try. Nothing else has worked so far.
  • AntiPorcheria
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    @AnnieO - I understand. Can't tell you what the real answers are. But we have to get real about the scenarios. If you have armed guards, those are dead men if a shooter wants in. Think about it. If a shooter is really intent on getting in for whatever reason, don't you suppose he's going to figure out how to take out the security guard or two first? I know I would. However if I can't get in and move freely I can't do much damage and can be held for authorities.
  • u
    AnnieO
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    @AntiPorcheria At least the guards have a fighting chance. I don't think Lanza was a shooting expert by any means. Even if a guard can slow the gunman down, precious time could save more lives. A criminal that wants to commit a mass shooting doesn't go to a place with armed guards. That's why they target schools and movie theaters. They choose the places with the most sitting ducks. I know that all shooters are different but we have to look at the evidence here of how they choose their targets.

  • View all 15 replies >

  • miketost
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    My wife is a teacher in public schools and a great non- union teacher.She not only educates but also accepts the part of social worker,psychologist,nurse,baby sitter,confidant and in some cases the only adult a child sees as someone that cares about them as an individual.She does not need to add policeman to the list.Trained armed guards are a big part of the answer.
  • jamayla
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    Aaaaaaaannnd where pray tell is Congress supposed to get the money to pay for this? Oh that's right. How could I have been so dense?
  • Medicinebow
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    My legally owned firearms shouldn't be taxed to pay for school protection.They aren't the issue. That being said i'd gladly support a tax increase to fund school protection.
  • u
    Greenjeans
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    @Medicinebow I said tax gun (and, let me add) ammo sales. I didn't say tax existing legally owned guns. I'm poor, never had kids, and don't support new taxes to pay for fixing problems that I had nothing to do with. I would have to sell my guns to keep my house. Plus, I was being sarcastic. You conservatives have no sense of humor.
  • Medicinebow
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    @Greenjeans Topix needs a sarcasm button. Aside from that taxing sales on guns and ammo is wrong in my opinion. The real problem is criminals but, how do we tax them. There is no simple answer but I believe taxing me for buying a gun or ammo is wrong. Soon I won't have any kids in school either. So the problem has nothing to do with me either. Should we require the parents of kids in school to foot the bill? I don't believe there is an easy answer but singling out law abiding gun owners is wrong in my opinion.
  • u
    Greenjeans
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    @Medicinebow So, if you tax everybody in the country instead of gun buyers, it spreads the load some and reduces the individual bill somewhat. Or we can look at the NRA proposal as a shotgun approach to a problem that might be better addressed by careful analysis and attention to the deeper roots of the problem, the people who do crimes. That means some general social fine-tuning and particular attention to people with mental problems.
    Right now, on Clarksburg WV Topix, a mentally disturbed and violently inclined person has been posting personal rants, threats, and vague fantasies about him and Taylor Swift. He wants to march on the courthouse at the head of a thousand armed men under the Confederate flag, to smoke pot. He thinks he is running for Congressman. He has been arrested for making terroristic threats (involving a BB gun). He has said all babies should be aborted and he would do it himself if he could. He says all kids under 16 should be killed with machine guns. He says everyone should carry tommy guns with 30-round clips, "and as soon as I get my license back, I'm getting one."
    Why isn't someone making sure that this guy is taking his meds and seeing a psychiatrist, instead of taking pot and meth and going to nightclubs?
    He posts all over the Clarksburg Topix like it was his personal blog. I can't find specific links for what I just said, but here is a bit of a summary I sent to a couple people yesterday. He makes ordinary gun nuts (I've met a couple) look as sane and sober as a judge.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch...
    This is the response to my (Registered Independent) political questions here:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/clarksburg-wv...
    Until about 43:43 (his code for [the common word for fornicate]) the video is just him listening to music, plinking his guitar, and watching his computer while in a closet.
    He has posted frequently on Clarksburg Topix since early December, except for most of January when he was in New Jersey planning to move to Colorado if he could get a job in the pot industry. He is obsessed with Taylor Swift. Names used are: several variations on Alex Weinstein, Taylor Swift, Woody Sez, I'm not crazy, the Count of Monte Cristo, God, Candidate for God, Alex Congressman Weinstein, Richard Petty43 STPKING, etc.
    And then there's this:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/clarksburg-wv...
    I bet a lot of people would like to shoot him just to shut him up
    And some pornography:http://www.topix.c om/forum/city/clarksburg-wv/TQ OSL6E2GS4QU1GMK
  • u
    vws
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    The only thing I worry about - if the gov't funds this they will demand to run it - Think TSA - guess that would help meet Obama's goal of a nation-wide police force - those that don't measure up to TSA standards for hiring could be considered for armed school security guards.
  • Thegrif
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    Lol if they can't measure up to TSA STANDARDS, then they should go back to 7th grade for more training.
    Worst trained in all of LE. Thats why they keep messing up, they're not the sharpest tool in the shed.
  • u
    Greenjeans
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    Then again, armed school guards could be paid for by eliminating the athletic programs. Instead of being indoctrinated into the ritualized tribalism of Organized Sports, what would be so awful about a program of Tai Chi, Yoga, anatomy, and nutrition, to teach kids how to live in the bodies they will be in for the rest of their lives? The current football-based P.E. model (which is probably 100 years old) will leave most of them drinking cheap beer and eating fatty foods in a smoky bar by age 30. As for strategy, learn to play chess. As for teamwork, how about a civics class where we learn to get along and reach reasonable compromises, instead of beating each other to a pulp and risking brain injuries. School districts would have enough money for academic programs if they weren't dumping tax revenues into athletic facilities that have nothing to do with the core educational mission. I never had kids, but I'm paying taxes so everyone else's can play ball. Instead we could keep them safe and make sure they learn something useful, while reducing future medical and insurance costs.
  • ConserveUSA
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    This is the best idea to protect Our Children and this is long overdue! Children are most valuable than the Gold & Silver that are protected. Yes, this is sad but it is a insane world and I am all for Armed Guards at schools. Thank You NRA!!!!
  • Thegrif
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    We have armed officers in high school and middle schools, but our most defenseless, our youngest, go to school 180 days a year unprotected.
    I say there should be at least 3 armed officers at every school. That way when one has in service training, or in court, or whatever. There will always be 2 there.
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