This may be because it is (understandably) hard to see the endgame of the defund strategy. House Republicans could pass a bill that funds the government while killing all ObamaCare spending. But the Democratic Senate could just amend the measure to restore funding and send it back to the House. What then?
Rove suggests political history is not on Republicans' side.
So what would the public reaction be to a shutdown? Some observers point to the 1995 shutdown, saying the GOP didn't suffer much in the 1996 election. They are partially correct: Republicans did pick up two Senate seats in 1996. But the GOP also lost three House seats, seven of the 11 gubernatorial races that year, a net of 53 state legislative seats and the White House.
Rove's views are drawing mixed reactions.
Louie Gohmert: "Maybe our plan to defund Obamacare is 'self-defeating' like Karl Rove said, but I'd rather be defeated by us than by Obama."
No. The progressive liberals will end up "paying".....
Remember.....Karl is an establishment Republican.....he has an invested interest in the government running otherwise he is out of a job.....not to mention.....the GOP should remember that he was quite off on Romney winning.....
Agreed that it will fall on Boehner and the GOP House. You know it's obvious when Cruz, Paul, Rubio, etc. in the Senate even said to not go in this direction. As much as I disagree with 0bysmalcurse, that should be a separate battle. Shuttering the gov't will comeback to bite the GOP more than it will the libs.
@Knightkore @MarkJM I am more than happy to see which side gets the blame. IIRC 19 times when Bush was President he asked that they raise the debt limit and 19 times they did without issue. In fact until this current batch of tea baggers got into congress this was never an issue. It's the American people who will be hurt by the GOP obstanance and they will be smart enough to know who caused it.
I totally agree with him, there are a few who seem to want to shoot themselves in the foot rather than do what CAN be done. The polls say that the majority of Americans do not like this law and that they would be totally in favor of delaying it's implementation until all the stuff is fixed.
I don't think they're shooting themselves in the foot. Obama will have the funding in his hands. AND the increase on the debt ceiling. If he sends it back because he's unwilling to compromise, then it's on him.
@harold_lloyd hopefully the fact that its full funding to keep the government operating and also the debt ceiling increase theObama has demanded so fervently. Maybe the realization that if those SS checks stop flowing, the would-recipients will know Obama had their money in his hands and chose to send it back over a bill that most of them don't want anyway.
@PNWest - Tell you what, if I were president the budget would be balanced, the economy would be booming, and America would be #1 in education once again. You probably wouldn't like it much, but millions upon millions would love to keep more of their money in their pocket instead of making Pelosi and Kerry richer.
@PayThatCEO Allowed mexicans to come in and re-occupy the land the u.s. stole from them. Well at least he did something right. (I know whats coming my way, you xenophobes don't scare me) snicker. :)_~~~
Why is it every time we try to get some spending control in government the left screams that we can't stop spending. Obamacare is a disaster as is the excessive spending that Obama keeps pushing. I think defunding Obamacare is a way to stop the spending.Yesterday Obama said that increasing the national debt doesn't increase the national debt, in other words he is an idiot.
You right-wing economic worrywarts assume the government budget is like your household budget. It's not. How do you think we paid for the silly wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? All the theories like yours are just nonsense to fool the gullible in pursuance of the real goal: make the rich richer and the poor poorer.
That's BS. @fscott777 The rich are the ones who are unwilling to work and expect us to support them. Every time a new plant opens up people line up for blocks to be considered for jobs. Every time a rich man says he got rich through hard work ask him whose.
@TheKangaroo You have really bought into the koolaid. Most of the rich, not all have worked for what they have and no one gave it to them. They not only went to college they took those hard subjects that so many folks avoided, you know it gets in the way of partying. I don't blame the rich for being rich.
@TheKangaroo "advancing the interests of the rich"...really? And you think the Dems stand up for the little guy... Is that why, under the Obama admin and Democrat majority, the rich have been the only ones to recover from the recession while everyone else is still stuck in it...is this exemplified by the fact that Obama will let the govt shut down before he compromises on a bill that's killing middle-class jobs and business growth? Keep drinking that tired old democratic KoolAid homie.
True, but that's more because the Republican base is out of touch with reality. of course, the strategists like Rove are to blame too because they created the simmering mass of angry whiny believers in lollipops and fairy tales that make up the Republican base with their advertisements based on class resentments, hated of the poor and minorities, fear of foreigners, "American exceptionalism," etc.
It is better to fight a righteous fight than it is to run away and hide. The issue is much more than Obamacare. The house has to craft a fair budget that reduces government, keeps the debt ceiling where it is, eliminates all the redundant agencies and departments, reduces government employment, and stick to it. No continuing resolution. If government closes down, so be it. If they stick to their positions they will get to a position where Obama will come crawling on his hands and knees to get things changed. Obama has always spoken as a braggart. No one here has taken him on. Look what happened with Syria, Putin and Assad make Obama the goat. Time for the House to repeat that.
fraps, I actually I agree with you on this, but there isn't anyone really charismatic enough to do this. Obama will never be on his hands and knees. He is still basking in an approval rating far higher than Congress.
@Crashd1 It comes down to a fight of wills. If the House just sticks to its position, the government runs out of money. Then Obama has few choices. He is forced to let people go. He is forced to shut down agencies. What happens then? Do you think the House would care? I don't and I hope they would not.
fraps, I usually avoid commenting on your comments because they are so asinine, but you are in for a big surprise this time. You want to bring the country down because of your stupidity, fine. But to take it out on all citizens is self-centered, self-righteous, and just plain disgusting! This kind of thinking is what gets us into these messes the way it is. You won't learn until YOU lose everything!
@Dakotahgeo You choose to continue on the current course of bankruptcy, not me. I have come to believe that the current administration is doing everything it can to destroy this country. I fear it may actually succeed. I know I am not the only one with this opinion. Many, if not most, on this site fear as I do. But, please, I am not interested in your opinion. Block me as I have blocked you.
They've been in a train wreck since the Bush Dynasty took over. Granted Sr. Bush was 10x better and more intelligent than his dyslexic drunk son but we will be paying for their mistakes for years unless we have more Presidents like Clinton and Obama. I can hardly wait to say the words, "Madam President Clinton...."
Mac may retire this next go-round, but whether that happens or if he's picked off by a teabagger in the Republican Primary, we have a good chance to flip that seat. Arizona is trending blue faster than Texas is. My friend Kyrsten Sinema would be a good one to take that seat back for the Dems.
Why do all the options on the poll, except for "I have mixed feelings on it", have question marks behind them?
Personally, I feel that he is wrong about this. Suddenly every big time Republican person is coming out and now speaking out against defunding Obamacare, I don't understand that. The majority of the American people do NOT want this legislation. They voted for the Republicans to gain control in the House in 2010 and then again to maintain control in 2012. If they do not want this thing, then you keep voting to defund it. Big name Democrat donors are now backing away from the bill. Warren Buffet came out and said SCRAP IT! Democrats who are run for re-election in 2014 are separating themselves from the bill as they campaign and Obama, fearing a big loss in 2014, push back several important portions of the bill to 2015. So, tell me... is it truly suicide for the Republicans since it is what the American people want or is it suicide for the Democrats since they're making all these moves in order to save their asses.
"the Republican State Leadership Committee released a report boasting that the only reason the GOP controls the House of Representatives is because they gerrymandered congressional districts in blue states. The RSLC’s admission came in a shockingly candid report entitled,“How a Strategy of Targeting State Legislative Races in 2010 Led to a Republican U.S. House Majority in 2013″. It details how the group spent $30 million in the 2010 election cycle to sweep up low-cost state legislature races in blue states like Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin. Their efforts were so successful, in fact, that Republicans went from controlling both legislative chambers in 14 states before Election Day to 25 states afterward." http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/01/17/1...
IN other words they did not keep the house because more Americans wanted that they kept it because they cheated.
@NolanVoyd more REAL people voted for them than the zombies, felons, illegal aliens, cartoon characters, and nonsense names that voted for Democrats.
Voter fraud? What voter fraud? Defeating Lt. Col. Allen West by winning 144% of the vote in St Lucie is nothing unusual. Nothing to see here. Nor the 100% of voters in evey district that prohibited voter ID.
Democrats don't win the popular vote. They win the most overpopulated voter precints.
Coming from the poster who uses Think Progress as a legitimate source material. Pot meet kettle!
I could of swore the notion that Republicans gerrymandered more was smacked down last week. That comment was posted in response to you even, using left leaning websites as evidence that the Democrats gerrymandered more. But you still keep up the notion. Weird.
The Republicans are going to pass a continuing resolutions to fund the government , but funding for Obamacare is not going to be included. That forces the Senate to be responsible for a government shutdown, or they can vote to keep the government running and defund Obamacare too. This is the vote the Senate doesn't want with six very vulnerable Senators up for re-election next year, they are going to have to take a stand. It's far from being suicide. Rove and the other RINOS are afraid. They are losing their power.
It is funny how all you conservatives react to criticism.....if a liberal criticizes you you say it is because they "hate America" or are "trying to bankrupt America" or some other total nonsense. And if a Republican criticizes you you all always dismiss them as being a RINO (in other words not really one of you).....calling someone a RINO in no way refutes their point though.....it just makes you all look like petulant children who can't take criticism maturely and intellectually so you deflect by attacking the messenger not the message.
@NolanVoyd As it so happens there is no problem with the way the criticism is doled out, It is accurate and your analogies don't really work together. Some Republicans really are libs, that is the definition of a Republican In Name Only. That's Rove. Rove is part of the GOP 'go along to get along" Republican leadership the conservatives are sick of. He's wrong about everything. The Democrats and the establishment GOP are scared to death the conservatives are going to win the battle against Obamacare and balancing the budget. The majority of the voters do not want Obamacare and they do want a balanced budget. It is the conservatives who are going to give the people the responsible leadership they want. BTW, liberalism is immaturity, cloaked with the pretense of moral and intellectual superiority.
@Realthinker I understand that you don't like, nor agree with, Karl Rove and you are entitled to your opinion about him and his positions, but he is no liberal.
If you call him one it just demonstrates you don't undertsand the language very well. And anyway, attacking the messenger is in no way a refutation of what the messenger said.
As for the rest of your arguement....the American People do not want what conservatives are offering that is why Obama won the last two elections.....if you had put up more conservative candidates you would have lost by wider margins.
Obama won because the middle voted for him. The left will almost always vote for the democrat and the conservatives will almost always vote Republican....the middle decides elections and the further the Republicans go from the middle by marginalizing their less conservative or "establishement" members the less relevant the Republican party will become.
But good luck with that strategy and good riddance.
@NolanVoyd Sorry buddy but I am not stupid enough to believe a word of this. The Republicans lost because 2 million voters stayed home rather than vote for Romney because they didn't trust his profession of conservatives values after his record as governor of MA. Those voters lost the election for the Republicans. That is the real political reality.
@Realthinker conservatism is not conservative at all. It is an attempt to go to war against the future. It the ideology of the timid and the bully. It is but a rear-guard action to slow social change. The fact we now have a black president has drawn out the crazies who realize when they see that black face in the oval office, hey, we are on the losing side of history, let's whine about it like the sad, scared little boys we are.