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  • #9
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    How do you enforce the no drink policy if it is concealed carry? If you don't know they have a gun, how can you refuse them service? And, do you really think every one of them will refrain from drinking in a bar? I don't think so.
  • #12
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    @Tralee The onus is on the carrier, not the server.

    If I'm at a restaurant that serves alcohol and I'm carrying and not drinking what is the issue?

    Which law does everyone obey?
  • #35
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    @Tralee Concealed carry license holders are law abiding citizens. They do not drink while they are carrying a concealed weapon. Numerous states allow concealed carry in restaurants that serve alcohol and there have been no incidents.
  • #36
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    @Medicinebow It's not the not drinking, it's the ignoring the provision and getting drunk or even slightly impaired that worries me. Depending on the bar or restaurant, it could get a little wild west if things go wrong. If you carry and don't drink, no problem, but you know that it's more likely that most will ignore that law. As to which laws to obey? Um, how about all of them?
  • #38
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    Can you 100% guarantee that? No thanks, I just don't want to be collateral damage some night because we decided to go out for a drink and some, supposedly law abiding citizen get's a bee in their bonnet and either tries to right some perceived wrong or sees the wife with some other man. NO ONE is guaranteed 100% to never make a rash mistake, hopefully, that rash mistake will not include a drink of 5 and a loaded gun. I'm not anti concealed carry either, but to my mind, alcohol doesn't mix well with driving or lethal weapons.
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  • #16
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    When firearms are present people are more apt to be mind their manners and be better behaved because they'd be potentially risking more than just a punch in the mouth.
  • #139
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    @slayer98_l - Mind their manners? You're kidding, right? If I have a gun, and you have a gun, and I'm drinking Tequila shots and you look at me funny, do you really think I'm going to be so intimidated by your gun that I'll refrain from pulling out my gun? Alcohol removes inhibitions, judgment, reason, self-awareness, and the ability to control oneself. And you think it's okay to mix that with loaded weapons?

    Yes, I read the part about how those with guns will not be allowed to drink alcohol, but I think we both know there's no way to enforce that rule.
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  • #31
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    In Indiana it has been perfectly legal for someone licensed to carry a weapon to do so in a bar, and to drink while they are there. Contrary to popular Democrat hysteria, this has not been a big problem.
  • #19
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    I wish my state had such a law. It's a pain to have to take off your gun when just going into a restaurant to have dinner. Most good restaurants do serve liquor, so leaving your gun in the car is just inviting having it stolen while you comply with stupid laws. In our state there have been zero instances of a ccw permit holder violating a gun law. We take our responsibility very seriously. It's too bad others do not as well.
  • #25
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    Most people, who don't go out to bars, drink at home, and own firearms. Over 110 million of them, if and when they become 'tipsy' or 'drunk' don't shoot their neighbor(s) and/or passing cars. This law may seem controversial to some, but the much more common scenario in places that don't allow guns where drinks are served are either some thug with a record getting drunk and killing someone with a gun, a knife, a cue stick, or a broken bottle, or an armed robber taking advantage of the fact that no one else will be armed and holding up the place. Presumption of misuse should not be the basis on which to enact laws. That's 'Pre-Crime' thinking and it doesn't appear to do any good in the inner-cities controlled by those who are most in favor of such restrictive laws. How is that working out for them? Severe laws, and their actual enforcement, for the misuse of anything should be the guiding principle. Reward good behavior, punish bad behavior.
  • #49
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    "if and when they become 'tipsy' or 'drunk' don't shoot their neighbor(s) and/or passing cars. "

    You need to start keeping up with the news from Florida.

    Shooting randomly while under the influence is getting to be the state sport.
  • #7
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    I agree with since it clearly requires that the person carrying the firearm does not drink. If I were going into a restaurant to eat and that restaurant has a liquor license I would be able to carry my firearm rather than leaving it in an automobile.
  • #140
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    "... it clearly requires that the person carrying the firearm does not drink." If I carry a Glock in my handbag, how are you going to enforce that requirement?
  • #205
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    Most states don't ban firearms in restaurants even if they sell alcohol. They ban or limit carrying in an establishment IF the majority of their revenue stems from alcohol. The majority of restaurant revenue comes from the food.
  • #240
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    In my state the law prohibits carrying concealeed firearms into any establishment that serves alcohol regardless of where the revenue comes from.
  • #252
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    @Denizen_Kate - A concealed weapon permit requires training in the law as well as demonstrated proficiency with the weapon. Carrying a concealed weapon requires personal responsibility to follow the law in that regard. Failure to do so will result in your arrest and possible loss of your permit.

    If you would like to know the consequence of feel-good laws that disarm the law abiding read this article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby 's_massacre
  • #268
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    @Gatnos - Interesting. I assume the key phrase is "Hupp reached for her .38 revolver in her purse, only to remember she had left it in her vehicle to comply with the law." Meaning that if she'd had her .38, she may have been able to stop the rampage that killed both of her parents.

    I can see your point, however, I still think this is political grandstanding, because even without these laws, had I been Ms. Hupp, I would have been packing that .38, legal or not. As someone else mentioned on this thread, better to be tried by 12 than buried under 6.
  • #4
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    It should be up to the owners of every establishment whether or not guns or anything else is allowed in their establishment. There shouldn't be laws that make it so that you can or can not bring a gun into a bar if the owner is opposed to it. Ridiculous. I for one would not allow guns into a bar I owned, you are begging for trouble. But if someone else would allow them into their establishment, who am I to tell them they shouldn't do that?
  • #21
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    I tend to agree with you. But if, as I think you acknowledge with your statement that it's "begging for trouble", the presence of those guns increases the risk of fatal accident to other patrons- why should that decision be made by the perhaps frivolous preferences of the business owner. Why should we assume that a small business owner is capable of (and by this law- explicitly responsible for) making a decision with such potentially grave consequences.

    So I guess my point is- absolutely, a business should be able to tell people to keep their guns away. But why is that responsibility being put on the shoulders of the business owner. The whole thing is rather tricky.
  • #48
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    "There shouldn't be laws that make it so that you can or can not bring a gun into a bar if the owner is opposed to it. Ridiculous."

    The only ridiculous thing here is that you apparently didn't read the article because it doesn't say what you seem to think it says. Ya know... the whole "opt out" part you skipped over...
  • #128
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    @SmarterThanYou It should be the owners choice, and customers should find out the rules before hand whether or nor not they want to patronize the establishment.
  • #129
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    @JoshPuchall 'OR CAN NOT' As in the many, many places BY LAW you can not carry a gun into whether the owner likes it or not. Or did you skip over that part? Take some of your own advice and read before you waste my time having to respond to your b.s. mistakes.
  • #138
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    There are laws against smoking in bars and other public places. The purpose of those laws is to protect the health and well-being of non-smokers. A bar owner has no say in it. How is this different?
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  • #13
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    Moms with candles who demand action are complicit with michael bloomberg to disarm all amerian citizens - their idea of utopia is a heavily armed police state with an unarmed civilian population - dialing 911 is their only capability in reacting to violence (you can hear their screams of horror in 911 recordings)- they are doing everything they can to legislate that to be our only option as well - I don't mind concealed carry holders in bars / restaurants, it's better than everyone unarmed and criminals shooting up the place terrorizing everyone in there - if something does happen with a legal gun owner - if he or she does something wrong, they will be prosecuted aggressively you can be sure - what the naive moms want is guarantees of safety through legislation - or realistically - guarantees of illusions of safety through legislation. I say - there are so many totalitarian controlled countries in the world without a "bill of rights" - nobody can own a gun - MOVE THERE!-(be ready to run when thirty guys with machetes are running through slicing everyone to pieces) There will probably be a lot of satisfaction saying "at least they weren't killed by a gun!" Are machetes legal? Should they be?
  • #34
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    Wow - holy bias batman! I love the sarcastic "what could go wrong" implying that this is a ridiculous idea.... OK - well let's answer the question with reality -- what has gone wrong? Oh yeah - NOTHING!! What are the stats on CCW permit holders causing mischief? Oh it's less than the avg citizen isn't it.... So take your idiotic and uninformed fear of scary looking hardware and go back to mamby pamby land and play with your pet unicorn because that's the only place where more good guys with guns doesn't mean LESS crime....
  • #145
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    if you're a responsible gun owner then you won't be bringing you fucking gun to a bar. You're demonstrating EXACTLY why such a law apparently needs to exist, why the fuck does this law need to be spelled out? maybe they made the law just to see which gun owners are actually responsible and see which are OBVIOUSLY not.
  • #163
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    @Paultron.-- As a responsible gun owner and CCW, why would I find it irresponsible to carry my concealed, secured sidearm into a place that serves alcohol??(Now let me be clear, I'm actually asking you to tell me exactly what you believe is irresponsible... Typically gun haters run away or just spew insults here, I submit it's because they have no thoughtful reasonable answer...)

    Now - I'm "proving exactly why such a law needs to exist"... Care to elaborate?? I carry my sidearm frequently, in many stores which sell alcohol, parties where alcohol was present, and thus far, the alcohol has never once tried anything... So the police should leave their sidearms in the car when responding to calls where they'd enter a bar? C'mon brother - lay out the logic in your mind for us.

    I appreciate your quip about testing who is responsible, but I'm quite interested in how exactly you would call carrying your sidearm in some location is irresponsible.

    I don't mind telling you that (and now I'm just speaking of opinion here) that you haven't really thought out this thing, but have ignored the specifics, and likely are not aware that CCW holders are statistically speaking, MORE law abiding and well behaved than the avg person (and by definition, since to get the ccw have met strict requirements, have been well behaved).

    I'll be happy to elaborate or explain if you have any questions.
  • #184
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    @Paultron why don't you ask the woman in the Lucy's massacre why so many people got killed. She had a permit, but couldn't bring her gun into the restaurant. So she got to watch a nut job kill her parents, because the "gun free" zone worked so good.
  • #210
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    @Paultron

    Not true. Do you have friends who like to drink but you don't? Perhaps they you all like to drink but it's your turn to be the designating driver? The fact remains, they may want to patronize a bar but you're carrying your gun and can't. A) they go without you or B) you go and not drink. Responsible owners simply don't risk a drink because option C of leaving the gun in the car is out of the question since thieves target vehicles in bar parking lots cause they know gun owners will leave them if they want to drink. Now we're not worried about a big bad responsible loose cannon gun owner, we're worried about a loose cannon criminal with no regards for the law.
  • #211
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    @PatHenry52

    Gun haters don't have a logical reason for their anti gun agenda. They simply spew the same old inaccurate rhetoric from other gun haters throughout the media and all based from an emotional point of view. People fear when they have no knowledge of the issue.
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  • #39
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    States that have no restrictions:
    AL
    CO
    CA
    CT
    DE
    HI
    IA
    ID
    IN
    MA
    MD
    ME
    MN
    NH
    NJ
    NY
    NV
    OR
    PA
    RI
    UT
    VI
    VT
    WV

    States that do not allow a license holder to drink while carrying: AL
    AL
    CO
    FL
    ME
    MI
    NV
    OR
    PA
    UT
    VI
    Add OH to this list since Sept. 2011
  • #30
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    Let individual bars decide if they will allow guns in their establishment. Just require to have them post it somewhere if they do to inform the people. Then you can decide if it if not you want to go there. Problem solved without massive government overreach.
  • #209
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    Exactly! In Michigan, a private owner is free to ban firearms but must have a sign with a minimum of 1" letters and clearly visible when entering stating so.
  • #216
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    @Meanie Yeah but, by state law, we still can't carry concealed into an establishment that makes most of it's income from sales of alcohol to be consumed on the premises. Open carry with a CPL is possible, IF the owner doesn't prohibit it. Most will ask you not to do so.
  • #27
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    This is discussed much in every mandatory 12-hour Ohio CCW class, by students with certified NRA instructors who know the law and what they are discussing. While carrying a concealed firearm, drinking and doing drugs and being under the influence thereof is a crime that can lead to criminal and civil prosecution, punishment and civil [aka double jeopardy] lawsuits that require a lower burden of proof. Legal concealed firearms required good judgment [aka being judgmental] and a sense of personal responsibility with certainty and the concept of consequences for making mistakes. If one has or handles a firearm inside a bar, a restaurant or a strip club, one must do more thinking than drinking. Sensational sad scary incidents will make the news with the boohoos and the lawsuits, as we occasionally see on our newspaper pages and TV screens. Personally, I will not do it.
  • #118
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    And yet the buckeye sheriffs association lobbied for different limits on blood alcohol content for off duty law enforcement officers. How jive.
  • #142
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    Having good judgment and being judgmental are not the same thing.

    It will be interesting to see what, if any, differences this law makes in the state's gun violence statistics.
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  • #17
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    16gb of ram, dual slot sticks, 1 tb of hard drive, 6 cores overclocked to 4.8ghz....a big resounding no....if your having trouble with a site that has literally single digit server platforms, its time to upgrade your computer lol.
  • #26
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    server hangups are also usually attributed to your connection. in that case, if you didnt have trouble with other websites, your mb/s probably had a hickup in the line(frank version: when you tapped this server, the bitcode got hung up in your dsl/broadband connection and maybe things like pictures or stuff that takes more code than basic fonts wont show up for a sec), especially if your using anything under 8 mg internet speeds....nothin to worry about, FB does it to me everynow and then.

    p.s. ty for giving me this opportunity to feel like a techie lol
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  • #54
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    I don't get it. No business, restaurant, or bar have ever known and ever will now if I am carrying so this political whining seems moot.
  • #158
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    I think the whole thing is political grandstanding on the part of SC Republicans, including the governor. I'm with you: if I'm in a bar and I'm drinking and I happen to have a gun in my handbag, who the hell is going to know? I'm for sure not going to whip it out and show it to the bartender!
  • #165
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    @Denizen_Kate They are both grandstanding, the SC republicans and the Mothers against guns. Truth is no one is checking me for a gun to get into a restaurant/bar and I'm not leaving my weapon in my car where a real criminal can break in and take it. I'd sooner take my business else where or disregard a posted sign. The reality is a law like that could help in a situation where you did have to lawfully use your weapon in that setting(and it is proven), you won't get some jerk trying to prosecute you just because you were carrying. Like the saying goes, better to be tried by six than buried under six.
  • #50
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    VERY mixed feelings here. On one hand, I believe in everyone's freedom to exercise their 2nd Amendment rights and feel "Gun Free Zones" render the innocent sitting ducks, but I have to tell you, in my band/karaoke days, I saw a plethora of persons I would NOT want brandishing a loaded gun in the state they were in. We've ALL seen STUPID bar fights between drunk patrons out in the parking lots.
  • #47
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    I think it's a huge experiment.

    Since I don't live in South Carolina, and I have no intention of ever going there, I'm willing to wait and see how it works out for them.
  • #87
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    I think it's just being sensationalized. I'm unaware of any sober CCW holder shooting up a restaurant or bar.

    Are drunk CCW holders shooting up bars? Maybe someone can list a few examples. I believe its really a non-issue.
  • #166
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    @Medicinebow

    " I believe its really a non-issue."

    That may indeed turn out to be the case. But I'm glad Florida isn't the first state to do it.
  • #167
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    @DrNickels

    "The new law allows anyone with a concealed weapon permit to bring a gun into a bar or restaurant, on the condition that they do not drink alcohol."

    If they stick to the 'no drinking' rule, it may not be a problem.
  • #45
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    You know i am still waiting for that Wild West Shoot outs that the left, Bloomberg and the various Moms Against the Constitution were adamant about with CCWs in the first place.
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