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  • #12
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    Dunn made a lot of mistakes, but he faces 75 years in prison. The outrage is generated by the media and people who have nothing to do with the case.
  • #72
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    people who have nothing to do with the case.

    People like who Jordan Davis parents who did not receive justice for this savage murdering their son because He didn't like how loud music was playing. Are you suggesting they don't deserve justice, because he was convicted on his other criminal acts. Would you say that if Jordan Davis was your son? Micheal Dunn must be retried and convicted for the murder he convicted.
  • #81
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    @BlackHeywood Yeah right, waste millions more taxpayer dollars to make a political point. The original charge could have gotten the exact same sentence as he is getting now.
    And, BTW: how many blacks are charged for attempted murder for firing and missing someone, or for the 'knock-out game'?
  • #85
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    @BlackHeywood No, people like you who weren't in the courtroom every day to hear the evidence, but rail against the decision simply because the victim is black.
  • #86
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    @puppybrownie Perhaps Mr Dunn should've thought about how much this would cost taxpayers before he chose to shoot into a car based on his racist beliefs. Perhaps the jurors should've thought about that before they failed to come to a verdict. The family of Jordan Davis deserve justice no matter how much it cost the taxpayers, that's how it goes get over it.

    how many blacks are charged for attempted murder for firing and missing someone, or for the 'knock-out game'?

    What has that have to do with anything, don't step to me with your racist psychosis and ignorance that is your issue to deal with not mine. I hope you understand my statement and don't bring that crap to me ever again.
  • #87
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    @puppybrownie Its obvious its only racial when its his own.I wonder if he has as much concern for the wasteful deaths of his race killing their own?It only seems to matter when the victims are of different races as the media plays it up and the dividers swallow it hook , line and sinker.How pathetic.
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  • #2
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    If the headline read Human kills another human over loud music it would not even be talked about.When those of the same race kill each other it is not headline news ,white on white ,black on black.But throw in the race card and it makes the death seem some how more important.Racism is kept alive by the media and they profit from that.
  • #15
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    If it was a car full of white kids blasting country music, would he have shot at them? You don't know that answer and neither do I.
  • #24
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    @wigglwagon The gun that wasn't found you mean? I believe he doesn't shoot a bunch of white kids, but assumes that the black kids have a gun. Of course, that's just a guess.
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  • #4
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    Judging form this article alone...I would say first degree murder was probably a long shot...I really don't see premeditation ...but...why was "Dunn guilty of three counts of attempted second-degree murder?"...it's not an attempt, when you succeed....not sure if the jury got the option for 2nd degree murder or not....anyhow, as far as the music goes....if it's too loud, you're too old...the guy should have just accepted that fact and moved on
  • #25
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    "anyhow, as far as the music goes....if it's too loud, you're too old"
    I assume that there are noise pollution standards in FL. I know there are in MO.

    "the guy should have just accepted that fact and moved on"
    Agreed. Even when one is in the right, some confrontations aren't worth having.
  • #37
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    I disagree, people thump the most puss poor music just to annoy. If having better taste in music then most black kids means your old then I'm ancient.
  • #40
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    @Arumizy
    You may not like the music but that doesn't mean the young people are playing it to annoy you...they like the music and are just having fun....in most cases if asked with respect the young will gladly turn down the music...this guy doesn't seem like the type that was very respectful...I mean he did start shooting them...but ...I guess, you're good with that too?...this is one the reason I hate the concept of people just being allowed unregulated concealed weapons...there are way too many hot headed psycho's out there
  • #47
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    I can agree with everything you said outside of the last part. He could have called the police to see if they could do anything for him about it. This guy is clearly an idiot and should be going to prison for second degree murder.. but that is the prosecutions fault
  • #54
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    @happyhedon Whoa, whoa back up a step there. First of all i am most definitly not fine with murder, nor am i fine with people shooting people because of music, i am not a rapper after all ( badabing). I don't know enough about this case to justify it or to condemn it which is why we have juries, due process, considered innocent until proven guilty etc.

    Now to move back a step, If you are thumping your music as loud as your car can you are doing it to be annoying. If you are blaring it at the top of the volume and the lyrics are along the lines of going to cap a bitch, smack my hoe etc you are doing it to be a disrespectful little annoyance. Kids thse days most certainly do not have respect, those are far and few between. That went out with disciplining your child without someone calling CPS.
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  • #1
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    the prosecutor never should have one for first degree she didn't prove premeditation... I don't know who you think is outraged I saw the mother of the boy on TV thanking the jury for doing their part... either way the guys going to prison for a long time.
  • #30
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    It ain't over until it is over. This is still Florida. The most outrageous injustice against these teens can still happen.
  • #32
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    @WMCOL I don't know what you mean the most outrageous injustices already happened to those teens.... but everyone is convinced this guys going to prison for 70 years..
  • #50
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    @WMCOL Perhaps you have more information than I do, but since I'm not a Zen archer shooting arrows at a target in pitch blackness, I haven't a clue what actually occurred. I would however, ask Mr. Dunn if he considers hard rock thug music as well.
  • #64
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    @Ryunkin
    Nothing is final in this case yet. If I was a "Zen Archer" maybe I could see the end of the matter, but I'm not, and the conclusion of this case is still in the dark.
  • #67
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    @bsking
    >>> but everyone is convinced this guys going to prison for 70 years.. <<<

    Maybe he will and maybe he won't. I don't consider it concluded until the deal is closed and I have the money in my pocket. And even then I'm looking at things that could encumber the concluded.
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  • #3
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    I think there are some very strange circumstances but I need more information to make any kind of informed decision. First, as I understand the reporting Dunn left the scene and did not report the incident to the police until much later and again after finding out the police had his license plate number. Did the juveniles stay at the scene and report the incident or did they also leave the scene? How did the incident get reported to the police and who reported it? Dunn made mention that a shotgun was pointed at him was there any evidence that this occurred?
  • #79
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    You know, light years ago, during my childhood and teen years, older folks asked politely to turn down the tunes. Teens politely turned them down most times.
    Neither group felt entitled enough to do battle over the hassle.
    And when I read stories like this, I wonder to myself if we went wrong somewhere along the way teaching moderation, tolerance, manners, and respect.
  • #100
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    Unfortunately we now live in a society where almost anything and sometimes nothing triggers a violence response. When we got away from family and family values things started going very wrong in our Country. I'm not sure how or even when it started but now it is in your face every day. I have pretty much loss hope for a society where parents or in most cases a parent can't even take of and feed your children. Somehow now it is up to the state or the schools to take of and feed your children. They see people around them with things they can never have or afford so they take them and the justice system is to busy going after bigger fish to worry about small ones. Our society is coming apart and the rule of law is disappearing.
  • #108
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    @Rocker Yes we did. Add to it the economic and political division that have people looking at each other as criminals from each person's point of view.
  • #150
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    @fscott777 That same society does not want sex education,birth control, abortion,criminalizes homelessness, whose politicians encourage shaming of poverty or misfortune. Those same schools forbid peanut butter sandwiches from home. Family values are trotted out for everyone to salute when the politician has sold his vote to the biggest campaign donors.
  • #176
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    No shotgun was ever found. None of the other witnesses said anything about seeing a shotgun. Dunn's fiance said that he never even mentioned a gun to her until after he was arrested. It's quite clear that he made up the shotgun to provide an after-the-fact excuse for his murderous actions.

    Also, Dunn has a history of expressing racist views and a desire to kill black people. Bizarrely, the prosecutors declined to introduce any of this into evidence.
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  • #36
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    The problem in Florida, as in much of nation, is with those like many here on Topix who cannot condemn a white for killing a black, even when the credible evidence and true justice condemns the white. They can condemn a black for killing a black, and a black for killing a white, but under NO circumstances can they condemn a white for killing a black.

    America, we have a race problem.
  • #43
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    Harsh words, but pretty much true. What is also absent from the incident is the right-to-pack crowd arguing that this tragedy could have been prevented if only the occupants of the vehicle had been carrying their own guns...for protection against some armed nut who feels his life is endangered by loud crappy music.
  • #44
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    The man is going to jail, correct? Justice is served! Why would anyone be outraged? If we are ever to move forward as a country, the race baiting needs to stop.
  • #149
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    Bang on the head. Too many in this country are content to swallow the "Everything Is Racism" meme rather than move beyond skin color.

    The entire "Racist" meme is perpetuated by Paid Elitist Politicians, Paid Political Pundits and Paid Race Relations folks all getting PAID to keep this ignorance going.

    Racism will end when the media decides it's time to end. Not before.

    Until then...the MEDIA is responsible for inciting the anger and the outrage.
  • #159
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    @AntiPorcheria
    To an extent, I think this is accurate, but anyone who thinks all racism is just media hype is willfully ignorant. Look at the black kid that was stopped by police for buying a belt. Hell, look at the response to that incident from people here on Politix. At least a couple people said that he probably bought it with drug money, based solely on the fact that he was black. Many conservatives even complained about that Cheerios ad a while back, saying that it was shoving interracial marriage down our throats. Others just made remarks about how if it was realistic, the father wouldn't be there.

    So while some is media hype, racism is definitely alive and well in the States.
  • #162
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    @Saving_USA - No one is saying that racism is dead.

    I have lived it since my birth.

    But the constant medial incitement...the Paid Politicians, Pundits and Race Relations folks keep the flame fanning hot...instead of working to bring people together.

    I believe that IF the media and the Elitist Politicians and the Paid Pundits and the Paid Race Relations folks were TRULY trying to "end" racism...the calls wouldn't be for outrage and anger...but for explanation and understanding...and stopping the inflammatory headlines and rhetoric.

    In my life...I have worked with people of every race, sect and sexual orientation. Pretty much everyone is the same and has the same goals. We want enough money to be comfortable...someone to love...and a warm place to eat, sleep, shower and shit.

    I can't think of the last time one of my business associates, friends, employees, acquaintance, extended family, volunteer group members, civic co-workers or anyone mentioned a problem, story or anecdote that concerned "race".

    Aholes...on the other hand...come in every color, creed and sexual orientation...and they are quick to make a planet out of a grain of sand.
  • #179
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    @AntiPorcheria
    Are you aware of the letters Dunn wrote where he openly expresses his hatred of black people, and his hopes that more people would start killing blacks? To deny that racism is a part of this case is to deny the basic facts of the case.
  • #200
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    @Cal - Who is denying racism as it applies to anything? Certainly not me.

    What I am suggesting is that the inflammatory rhetoric constantly used by the media on both sides is not necessary to the writing of the story and serves only to incite more fear and anger and ultimately a greater divide.

    Constantly pointing out racism brings it into the limelight as some kind of boogieman.

    Everyone has some degree of racism in their being one way or another. Hell, I'm a big enough man to admit it. I was personally dealt a real raw hand in my early life by a group of a certain race. I was beaten to unconsciousness and robbed and then was threatened for several years by these folks.

    That impression, no matter how I try to suppress it, makes me cautious when dealing with people of that particular race. Can't be helped. It's human nature.

    Do I act upon it overtly? No.

    Do I bring it into the conversation or make it known to others? No.

    Do I continue to do business, socialize and befriend people of that race? Yes.

    Why?

    Because I am bigger and smarter than my fears.

    And it is always fear that drives racism.

    The media knows this. THAT is the reason for the scary rhetoric and horror headlines.

    Once we identify our fear...we can make it small...

    ...but fear is a wound...and the media is constantly rubbing in the salt.
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  • #7
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    1st degree murder means it was planned in advance, which is hard to prove in a situation where the two people had never met before. But spending 60 years in jail seems like punishment enough. He must feel screwed over by the justice system, since he claims to have been threatened and was defending himself. But the jury would not have convicted him if they really believed that was true. Leaving the scene of the crime without reporting was a bad move... it suggests he knew what he did was wrong. So, evidently, he was an angry racist looking for any excuse to shoot himself some 'thugs'. So justice was served. He will never see the outside of a prison in his lifetime.
  • #180
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    There is no no time requirement for premeditation. Pausing for just a second to think about it, then going on to murder somebody, meets the legal requirements for 1st degree murder.
  • #289
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    If he was threatened he had a chance to get away, and where was the weapon? Also why did he not report the shooting? To me he stepped outside himself and tried to play Charles Bronson in Death Wish and the only crime he could punish these young men for was loud music. As much as I hate rap and hip hop, there is no reason to shoot someone over it.
  • #156
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    Why outrage? He's guilty, the jury just didn't think he was guilty of premeditated murder. They returned the proper verdict and he'll spend the rest of his life in jail. Isn't that what the prosecutors and family wanted?
  • #181
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    They had the option to convict of 2nd degree murder or manslaughter, if they thought the murder wasn't premeditated.
  • #204
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    Technically, Dunn was not convicted of murder of Davis...it was declared a mistrial so for closure one needs a retrial to offically make him a labelled murderer for history to know the shame he and his family will carry for the rest of their lives in Jacksonville.
  • #230
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    @Polito-Facts He killed a man. Everyone knows it and he's going to jail for the rest of his life. Just because the prosecutor presented a flimsy case trying to pander to the press is no need to say that there was no justice.
  • #453
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    @Tacitus01 Exactly.

    It doesn't matter if Bubba is whispering "Murderer" in his ear or not. He's still going to be getting bent over.
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  • #142
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    "In most states, first-degree murder is defined as an unlawful killing that is both willful and premeditated, meaning that it was committed after planning or "lying in wait" for the victim."

    I haven't read or found anything that showed Dunn had come to the store with the intent to kill Jordan and that he waited around until Jordan finally showed up. If he did, then 1st degree murder would be appropriate. But if this was just Dunn being stupid and his actions started when the two parties first interacted, then 1st degree shouldn't have even been considered.

    He definitely should go to jail and it looks like he is, for essentially the rest of his life. That is a good thing.
  • #478
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    He had the option of walking away. He knew he had a gun, and had the time to think about using it, whether it was a few seconds or a few days. The fact that the shots were fired when the vehicle was driving away gave him another chance to not shoot. He thought about it and did it anyway, if even for a few seconds. Premeditation isn't just planning for days or hours.
  • #479
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    @jdl51 ...by definition premeditation is more than just a few hours. I think he should have been charged with 2nd degree murder which takes the premeditation part out of consideration and would have,
    At least to me, have made it much easier to get a guilty verdict on a murder charge.
  • #480
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    There is no time frame for premeditation other than it can't be an instantaneous act. Twenty seconds would qualify for premeditation. He had time to think about it, went and got his gun, and started shooting. He had time to decide whether or not what action he would take. AND the jury had the option of convicting on lesser murder charges but two jurors, somehow, thought he was guilty of attempted murder but not any other of the lesser murder charges.
  • #481
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    Sorry, I don't agree that premeditation can be twenty seconds or some other similar short period of time. The legal definition of premeditation says "generally a killing which is deliberate and premeditated (planned, after lying in wait, by poison or as part of a scheme." If I was on the jury you would have a hard time convincing me that Dunn's act of Jordan was deliberate and premeditated unless they had had a prior run in, either in the store or some time before. The other part is that he had to be specifically targeting Jordan versus Dunn was targeting everyone in the car or the car in general. He had to have deliberately thought about and meant to kill Jordan (as opposed to someone else in the car).
    And lastly, I haven't found anything that says the jury had the option of 2nd degree murder. He was found guilty of 2nd degree attempted murder on the other kids but for Jordan, the charge was 1st degree and the jury couldn't come to a conclusion on that so it was a mistrial on that one count.
  • #88
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    It sounds to me like the problem is the State's Attorney. Just from the news reports and what I've been able to research, Murder 1 seems like a stretch. Lacking more information, I would have trouble reaching a guilty verdict. Can't fault the jury for that. 2nd Degree? Sounds reasonable, considering they handed down three guilty counts on that.

    But Angela Corey dug in her heels for 1st degree. She might have gotten a conviction of George Zimmerman, just on the emotional factor, if the charge had been lower. Looks like she might be playing both sides of the fence. "We'll prosecute them, but we'll make a conviction so unlikely that they'll get off. "
  • #183
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    You don't seem to understand how Florida law works. Convicting of a lesser charge is always an option for the jury. There's no such thing as over-charging in Florida. The jurors could have convicted Dunn of 2nd degree murder to go with his three convictions for 2nd degree attempted murder, but at least one of them chose not to vote that way. Hence the hung jury on the murder charge.
  • #214
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    "We'll prosecute them, but we'll make a conviction so unlikely that they'll get off. "
    Good observation and very possible.
  • #245
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    @Cal You can't assume the deadlock was because someone opposed 1st degree murder. If you put 1st degree in someone's bag of tricks, one person may hold out for that. We weren't inside the jury room, but it's possible one mom wanted the heaviest penalty, not necessarily the other way around. Without the Murder 1 option, they might have agreed on 2.

    Or, maybe someone might have hated rap music (understandable) and wanted to acquit.
  • #268
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    @Cal No. Some of us who HAVE worked in the Criminal Justice System, and especially in Florida, know that's not the case. If not Casey Anthony could have been convicted of child neglect, and other miscellaneous type offenses, in addition to the 4 false information charges (2 of which were later dismissed by a Superior Court). You have to go by what the State Attorney provides you and by the Jury Instructions, IN WRITING, gives to you.
  • #404
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    Excessively loud (c)rap music? It was a justifiable shooting.

    Somewhat more seriously, he was threatened and outnumbered, and he claims that he saw a shotgun barrel. If the jury thought that he was credible, then he should not have been found guilty on any of the charges. If they did not believe him to be credible, then he should have been found guilty of the unlawful killing of the young man. Kind of hard to justify the half-hearted results that came out.
  • #219
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    75 years in prison for a 47 year old man. I suspect the problem with 1st degree was the question of intent, did he plan on killing someone or did he simply react to the situation he walked into with deadly force. Retry him on 2nd degree murder instead of 1st and he will never see the light of day once he's been convicted.
  • #59
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    On the counts involving the death of the kid, they simply could not reach a verdict. That is neither exoneration nor conviction, it's just an admission that they couldn't decide, as a group.

    They seemed pretty clear on the other counts, and I think that if there is any message, it's that they didn't buy the self defense argument. If they had believed it, he would have been acquitted on those charges.
  • #255
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    Exactly, and it will be retried in a smarter way the way they should have in the first place, the state made it`s push for 1st degree, which is was not, had they delved into the lessor included charges more they may have reached a verdict. But irregardless this is what DOES make our system better then any other system. It takes all jurors to convict, acquit, and if no agreement is possible you got a mistrial. It`s easy to bash the system but if anyone who bashes it was on trial by a jury, then this is the system you want if of course you have a reasonable defense. They did not accept the states 1st degree strategy, and did not accept self defense. Now a retrial will be needed to agree on the level of murder to convict on.
  • #372
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    It's disgraceful,that this country rewards murderers ,especially the murderers of Blacks! But Karma's my Goddess,and she strike back with vengeance!
  • #324
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    The guy is 47 years old, and facing 60yrs in prison.-Without taking into consideration his previous criminal history- even if he gets half of that potential sentence, he will be almost 80 when he gets out.....
    It would be a monumental waste of taxpayer dollars to retry him on the 1st degree murder count.
    -For the record I do believe that he concocted the entire story just to cover his ass, and yes he is guilty-
  • #235
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    What bothered me was the incredulous look on Dunn's face when the verdict was read and he even said to his lawyer that he couldn't believe it?

    Did he really think he'd walk? You fire ten bullets into a carload of people and kill someone and you think that's OK? There's an arrogance that seems to come with these types of shootings. The shooter, regardless of the circumstances, seems to believe he was justified in taking a life. No remorse. No "I'm sorry." Nothing to demonstrate they feel badly for killing someone unnecessarily. How many more ticking time bombs are out there waiting to go off on the next person that irritates them?
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