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  • #6
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    "Accept a subsidy from Washington." It should read, "accept a welfare payment from the theft of taxpayer money."
  • #38
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    Compared to fossil fuels, wind energy gets a small fraction of the subsidies available to the energy industry.

    "It is worth pointing out that a 2008 study by the Texas Comptroller of Public Accounts found that wind received only 3.4% of subsidies given by the federal government to the energy sector. The big winner (in 2006) was biofuel ethanol, with 34.6%, and fossil fuels accounted for 45.9%."
  • #51
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    exactly what do you think should be done with our tax dollars if they're not used for the betterment of the citizens and the nation?
  • #54
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    @sevenSecrets At a rate of almost $10 for every $1 of wind subsidy. Doesn't make sense if you ask me, but then again you have to convince people who would not raise taxes $1 for every $10 of cuts.
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  • #65
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    You think these companies don't also pay taxes? Why don't you use the same logic for oil/gas subsidies since they require 10x the subsidies as wind despite making billions in profit?
  • #86
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    You are somehow under the impression that I support subsidies. I was merely pointing out that while fossil fuels may get the largest share of subsidies, they are also the single biggest taxpayers in teh country. Their tax rates for the top 5 oil companies are between 40-48%, so I wouldn't say that they are not contributing their fair share to the treasury.

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you trying to make the argument that windpower is economically viable when it requires 46% of the costs to generate electricity coverd by subsidy?
  • #132
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    Actually look at what is considered an oil subsidy. The left likes to talk about the $4 billion in oil subsidies, but most of that is from that farm fuel tax credit, energy aid to the poor, and the strategic reserve.
  • #159
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    @Yank All very true, but if Ace thinks that paying a 40-48% tax rate is is not enough, or if he believes subsidizing 46% of costs is an economically feasible model, then your very relevant challenge of what constitutes a subsidy to the fossil fuel industry will definitely fall on deaf ears. The oil industry is easy to hate and I curse them every week when I fill up my car, but that doesn't change the fact that the industry pays a boatload in taxes to support all teh boondoggle spending that ACE supports.
  • #9
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    I wish it were that simple. I would rather see the subsidies go in this direction but they are ending for wind power. However they are not ending for the oil and gas sector. I recently completed work on a brand new bio-diesel unit from the ground up at Valero/Norco:Iron work, piping, vessels, exchangers, etc. These endeavors are partially subsidized and provide many, many high paying construction and end use operator jobs.

    I think its a good investment by government but have great difficulty justifying subsidies to companies that have multi- billion dollar quarterly profits.
  • #11
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    @BobSmith better for me. Yes.
    I never ran a piping system in a wind turbine but I'm sure there's some conduit up in that thing somewhere.:):):
  • #34
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    @HawkTheSlayer I partially agree with you I agree no subsidies for anyone any time ever under any circumstances period! However you can not just pick and choose who gets subsidies it then leads to lobbyists and all sorts of mayhem.
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  • #1
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    Just get the environmentalists out of the way and build the transmission lines. And, build a factory near the wind farms to produce the equipment needed.
  • #3
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    I especially like the "build a factory near the wind farms" part. I often see the 80 ft (or so) wind blades pass through my town heading west. Transporting these behemoths aren't cheap. This transportation has gone on for years.
  • #14
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    @stepped_in_it These blades are seen being moved from the Gulf Coast northward regularly. I think they are shipped to the Port of Houston or Port of Beaumont and then trucked to West Texas or the Panhandle area. It would be a lot simpler to manufacture them in north/central Texas....and in other locations near wind farms. I am told these blades must be very exact in every way but, so are most industrial products.
  • #23
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    @seedtick i was under the understanding that most of the travel is still done by rail like other industries moving heavy mech.
  • #29
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    @sevenSecrets

    Think again, blades, turbines and support structure cause traffic to slow down and back up out here in the midwest and they discourage other vehicles from passing. There's not a damn thing green in how these things are transported.
  • #35
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    @sevenSecrets There are no rail where these things need to go. It's the interstate system until they get to the last 100 or so miles and then it's really hard on traffic and communities. Luckily, this part of the journey is usually in relatively remote locations. Also, remember this...you have a hard time moving an 80 to 160 ft. long blade system on a railroad. On the highway you can have a split trailer with a rear steering unit. Hard to do that on a railroad with curves and overpasses when all wheels must stay on the same rails.
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  • #28
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    The only thing that worries me about Wind Power is how many poor EAGLES & HAWKS (I'm talking birds, not using code words, lol) get killed by these things while they are fixated on getting a meal for their hatchlings and themselves. Pilots call it 'crash due to TARGET FIXATION', and these poor magnificent birds are dying in great numbers as a result of the same thing happening to them. We need to come up with a way to warn off birds from this area. Animals aren't as stupid as we all think. I have noticed how cleverly SPIDERS keep spinning webs around by infrared cctv cameras because they've noticed how bugs wander close to them at night. It's a pain in the butt having to clean off the webs every 2-3 days. Some animals may 'learn' and be heading towards these wind-mills knowing Eagles and Hawks will be torn to shreds, and them it will be their turn to feast on the poor birds' remains. We have an unlimited supply of RODENTS in the desert, but precious few Eagles and Hawks. Let's try to save as many as we can!
  • #88
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    Goodbye beautiful birds.....:( SAD @GedankPol - The birds already killed by wind power can never be replaced.
  • #114
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    I would venture to say that far more birds get sucked through jet engine turbines on a daily basis than get killed by windmills.
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  • #25
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    FISSION FISSION FISSION!, anyone hear of some of the crazy ideas coming from space physicists on deep space or outer orbital energy gathering systems? This stuff is nuts and if you read the small print we're missing out on the biggest gold mine surrounding all of us....the universe.
  • #140
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    lots of people and lots of money are being spend on Fission. If you can get it to work let them know, because they are having a hard time of it.
  • #175
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    @Gatnos Fission doesnt work fine, in the natural state of things it does...but i dont see anybody investiong in buildings used to harness explosive fission energies.
  • #180
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    @sevenSecrets - Are we talking about nuclear fission? If so then you need to take a good look around. Nuclear fission has been making cost effective electricity for over 50 years. There are currently 435 operating nuclear plants world wide (104 in the US) with 72 under construction.

    The physics and principle of operation of nuclear power plants are entirely different than that of an atomic bomb. Nuclear reactors can not "explode". There have been only two reactor accidents (over heating) that were of any consequence to human health; Chernobyl (Russia) and Fukushima (Japan). In both cases the design of the reactors (lack of fail-safe devices) exasperated the accident. The accident at Three Mile Island proved the value of fail-safe design and the need for better trained operators.
  • #181
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    @Gatnos I am well aware of how fission works. And it can only be nuclear in principle. The problem is that uranium rods are not "true" fission. Fission energies develop after Atoms split, we all know that (or should). But what we have in plants is called "decay by neutrino", where small amounts of bombardment breaks the nucleus into halves. On the other hand, we can get almost limitless power by micro splitting with larger amounts of neutrinos, what makes nukes deadly, and can continue to harness the explosive energy of the uranium rod a thousand times over. Explosions will always release more energy than heating rods, in layman's terms.

    I do understand that most people dont understand the difference in fusion and fission, but fusion is a while away....really we dont have the proper equipment or raw material yet...but look at the aurora project! Micro explosive fission reactors/ pulse det...we are so close!
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  • #18
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    This article exemplifies the problems we have in the economic arena of our country. Washington by doling out subsidies for politically attractive reasons have two results. The first is that development in other area's that might well be far superior is slowed and the second is that the taxpayer is being robbed of his money to benefit another person. The proper function of taxation is to run the government and its necessary operations. Production of energy is not one of those functions. Theft, even under color of the flag, is still theft.
    This country prospered greatly without the government controlling the economy. That started to slow then almost stopped as government control increased.
  • #4
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    "Wind power depends on subsidies." More proof, once again, that this energy goes belly up without taxpayer theft to keep it afloat.
  • #56
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    So why are we subsidizing coal and oil at 10x the cost, two industries we already know to be profitable and cost the taxpayer WAY more?
  • #77
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    @AceLuby I'm with you. Stop ALL subsidies to coal, oil and Wind. Distorting the market will only hurt all of us.
  • #80
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    @AceLuby wind is subsidized at 2.2 cents per kilowatt, and it cost(2011) 5 cents. That's 40% subsidy. Oil would have to be subsidized at $50 per barrel for the same subsidy.
  • #125
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    @AceLuby we're not subsidizing them at 10x. Oil and gas are subsidized at .25 cents per megawatt, coal at .44 cents. Wind and solar?$24 and $25 per megawatt hr.
  • #138
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    @AceLuby they get the same equipment depreciation as any other company, get a tax credit for oil exploration, and most of what is considered oil subsidies are not.
  • #2
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    Until wind, solar, fossil fuel.....etc can create and survive WITHOUT subsidies, the only savings/differences between any is environmental and renewablility.
    And they ALL kill wildlife at one time or another. That's just a fact we human (cockroaches) have to face.
  • #67
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    In that case, why would anyone not choose the one that is both better for the environment and renewable? Seems like a no-brainer.
  • #176
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    @AceLuby - "We regulate our markets in this country."

    That's one of the major reasons why we are in such economic trouble.
  • #179
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    @AceLuby

    Over regulation stifles our liberty, business and industry. The EPA, BLM, CDC, ED, DOE,DHS, DOJ, DOI, DOT, Education Department, EEOC, FEMA, FTC, FDA, IRS and NSA are but to name a few of the federal bureaucracies that are unanswerable to the people and make laws (regulations) contrary to the Constitution. It is these regulations that stifle our liberty and drive our industries overseas, resulting in massive unemployment, a shrinking economy and the worst "recession" in history.
  • #7
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    "Growth continued unabated even while the cost of gas was falling sharply." That's because of massive welfare payments. Wind solar cost twice what gas cost to produce the same amount of energy, not to mention the space it takes to produce same.
  • #105
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    I read that china is in to the wind and solar in the united states, and I bet the politicians are getting some money out of allowing them into America.
  • #95
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    One very important point that is missing in this report is the fact that most of the killer blades only operate effectively in the known flight paths of our migrating birds and insects that are being killed in the millions.
    And the point that Wind generated construction and operation is on the shoulders of the US Taxpayers.
    You can always find those who don't use their minds to really check out the actual facts of the matter.
  • #58
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    The best renewable energy on the planet is the one that we keep ignoring. If man can harness the free source of electricity then we would never ever need another source of power again. This power? Lightning if we could just trap the power of one lighting bolt we could power the entire US for twenty minuets, and there are hundreds of lighting bolts every second this is truly the ultimate power source that the world needs. So quit with the wind stuff! work on capturing lighting!
  • #57
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    Glad to see this happening across the country and VERY disappointed in Nebraska (per the map) for their lacking numbers, when we are rated a class 4 location (that's good) for Wind Power....
  • #43
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    One key point as to why it is so big in Texas. The topography. There are miles of open space where the winds a consitant and they can set up large numbers of windmills as the land is relatively flat and easy to build on.
  • #42
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    Wasn't T Boone Pickens and Nancy Pelosi joining forces a few years back to get a big wind power conglomerate going? Billions could be made from it.
  • #33
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    Subsidies,
    If the government would give me enough subsidies I could get rich selling grass-burs, that doesn't mean there is a market for them,
    I would be all for green power if it cost less to produce than it created, those subsidies don't just appear, the government isn't investing their money to subsidize anything, they have no money, they take money from taxpayers and give it to these markets and try to convince everyone how great it is
    There is money changing hands alright,... You make it, government takes it, gives it someone else, then celebrates the "profit" that's made by the recipient.
  • #90
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    @AceLuby
    You tell me! A bill to cut subtiling oil was defeated in the senate 2 years ago while they continue to make record profits, that doesn't upset you? It's your money too if your paying taxes
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