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  • #8
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    Sounds like Bundy wants people to got to work, have jobs, get weaned off the government dole if possible, which is the same thing I want.
    One thing's for certain though, he's no diplomat.
  • #48
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    He's also no real American. A real American accepts responsibility for his actions. He doesn't play the victim, which Bundy does.

    Seems Bundy is no better than those he's criticizing. Isn't that called being a hypocrite?
  • #65
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    @cujo OMA.....seriously.....it is NOT federal land.....federal government cannot OWN land in such a fashion.....read the Constitution or one day get your land stolen too.....
  • #95
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    @cujo Has the government been doing his work for him? He WORKS hard for his living and the BLM doesn't even take care of the land they promised to maintain. Why should Bundy pay them a dime???
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  • #25
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    Again, the article and the three poll answers show the bias of the left...they have to work hard to find a way to twist Bundy's words into what the left wants the words to mean..a common leftist tactic....and there's no choice to say "This hasn't changed my support of Bundy's cause in any way."

    Well, I'm here to say: "This hasn't changed my support of Bundy's cause in any way".
  • #68
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    @Food4thoughts "are they better off as slaves" would be the actual quote. But that wouldnt do anything to get your misguided point across.

    Nope, no one in any way is twisting his words.
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  • #28
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    It is what progressive liberals do when they can't win and are losing and are desperate.....

    http://maaadddog.wordpress.com/2009/02/24/the...

    VII.“Meghan’s Law”(added in response to Matt’s comment). When your opponent is winning the argument, pick up on some little point that they made and whine about it being a personal attack (or anything else that can distract from the conversation and instead twist the conversation around to some topic where you might stand a chance). Examples? You called me “fat”(even if they didn’t really) or “that sounds like a racist/homophobic/mysogenist/[ insert some big word here]” and attack the person instead. You know that is where liberals excel, attacking the messenger. Named in honor of Meghan McCain. True, some might argue that this is merely a variation of Commandment X, but really, it is a clever way to actually misconstrue what your opponent says, make it sound like they said something, and then you can launch into personal attack mode yourself while claiming to be the victim. It is a less ham-handed approach to get to Commandment X than to just launch directly into name-calling.
  • #40
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    A character assassination? No, I think not.

    It would be a character assassination if there was no proof Bundy made those remarks. But, as it stands, there does exist evidence he said those things. Therefore, it is not character assassination. And, there is no possible way those racist comments were taken out of context or his words twisted. He said it, he must own it.

    Just like the old saying, if you make your bed, you must lie in it; if you make your white hood you must wear it.
  • #46
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    How is proof of being a bigot "character assassination"? When you open your mouth and insert your foot in it up to and including your arse, you have no one to blame but yourself.
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  • #89
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    His comments have nothing to do with the BLM's terrorist tactics. Would you want the BLM or any arm of the federal government treating you the way they treated Cliven Bundy?

    His comments deal with what he has seen in the past. Has he ever brutalized someone of a different color? How does he treat his fellow man? There is no perfect person. I am sure we have all said something that wasn't perfectly acceptable.
  • #127
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    There are comments humans all make, from time to time, that are later realized as inappropriate. I will wait until Bundy offers an apology for his race remarks. But I don't think he will. Even though by now someone surely has pointed out what he said, and how it came across. Like say, oh, countless media outlets in print and online.

    It's up to each of us to educate ourselves. No apology means he sees no problem with his skewed, out-of-touch views. That speaks volumes about his character.
  • #242
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    @John_Lorenzo I think he was making a point about being owned by the government compared to being owned by a slave owner. We are all tax slaves in America. There use to be no taxes until 1913. In fact, if I recall history correctly, taxes were only to be for a limited time. Well, that wasn't true. I will have to go study history on that point.

    Cliven Bundy is of age that they speak the way they do. My father was from Arkansas and I am sure he was totally politically incorrect, but he never had malice when he spoke.
  • #296
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    @LoraM – Well, taxes are always a sore subject. Complex subject, as well. Regardless, they are required by law and are what run society, not always well, today.

    My ancestry is all about the South and Midwest. I know the speak all too well. Still, it has never stopped me from pointing out to these folks that certain words are no longer acceptable. They must educate themselves and understand how their words can be taken. Otherwise, they must take the brunt of responses they will receive.

    Bundy may well have no malice towards non-whites. But he is out of his league when he speaks on certain matters. It does not help him that he owes the government loads of money. He has made loads of money off grazing his cattle on government land. He comes across as privileged and selfish thinking he is owed any special rights.

    Even some of my most 'retro' relatives admitted they did not always say things correctly and that they might be inadvertently insulting others. They would apologize and try to do better the next time. Bundy could do the same.
  • #322
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    @John_Lorenzo I tend to believe that a person is responsible for what they say. I also believe very strongly in free speech. If I say something that offends, then I deal with it person to person. I am not in the public eye like Bundy has become for his beliefs. I don't believe that Bundy was trying to demean anyone in particular. Look at what he is saying and take out the word that describes one group of individuals. Put in whites, put in Italians, put in Irish. Put in just people in general in that space. What he says is that anyone who relies on the government is owned by the government.

    At this time in life I believe people get their knickers in a twist over words, more than actions. Words are words, no matter what the whole psychological community wants you to believe. The old saying stick and stones... Is very applicable. Sometimes people could look at the whole concept instead of focusing on one word.
  • #324
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    @John_Lorenzo oh and one more thought. You can't please everyone with what you say and I am sure that there will be those who will be outraged over some comment I have made on a public forum.
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  • #61
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    I will not vote in this because a suitable answer does not exist. Regardless, of these alleged comments, he still stands up against the federal government and that alone is worth its weight in gold!
  • #227
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    I choose to stay in the States and strive to make my country a better place. I never said I liked Putin, just that he had good cause.
  • #453
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    Let's see he is an ultra right wing, white supremacist, racist, who does not recognize the very federal government that has been putting bread on his table for decades. He owns not one square inch of the land in dispute. And he has cheated the American taxpayer out of over a million dollars. But because he "stands up" against the government. He's worth his weight in gold?? Really? But then you think Putin is cool too -- and that he has a "good cause." I think I know enough to form an opinion about your judgment.
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  • #91
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    Yup, pure hypocrisy! This is a propaganda piece designed to make Budy look bad. In truth, what this is all about is that desert turtle, and Harry Reid's son, who wants to put a solar farm up on the half of the land Bundy uses to graze his cattle. They claim the cattle will destroy the desert turtles, but building a solar farm won't?

    Reid is cow dung.
  • #124
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    Even though Bundy brought the issue of States rights and the ever encroaching govt over reach to the fore -- I'm not concerned about whether he's a nice guy or not. I'm more concerned about the govt hassling citizens over land issues and our freedoms being diminished, including Harry Reid's part in all this WHY does the BLM, IRS, and other civilian govt agencies need paramilitary units, not to mention sniper teams?? As far as I'm concerned that's the real issue here...IMO, of course. <wink>
  • #230
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    @wgd Don't insult cow dung.....put it on fire and it can smoke out insects around a camp site.....Senator El Guapo Harry Reid is even good for that.....
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  • #251
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    The Welfare Cowboy ,recipient of HANDOUTS and Deadbeat who also ignores the US States Courts and laws has the audacity to criticize Black people. You gotta love the mindset and thinking of racist. Smh. This is no surprise to many of us.
  • #710
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    Well I am not surprised if only from seeing him ride around carrying a flag while not believeing in the government these guy should be treated like the black panthers were.
  • #1323
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    He's not playing the victim, he IS the victim. There's this thing called the truth, which the media (not even FOX) is not telling people You see, the supreme court ruled long ago on the rights of states versus the rights of territories, and they ruled that Territories were the property of the Federal Government, BUT once they became states any land within those states that were owned by the Federal Government MUST be transferred to state ownership so that all States would be on even footing and the rights of some states would not be squashed and oppressed. Think about that.

    That means that the Federal government, keeping ownership of 80% of Nevada is in gross violation of Nevada's State Rights

    Now, Cliven Bundy's ancestors settled there around the year 1800 and they were given a huge area of land to raise cattle on, but then Nevada became a State, and the Federal government claimed 160000 acres of land that had been his families property, but in exchange for taking back the land (an Unconstitutional act, by the way) they gave Bundy's family grazing rights there, no catches, no fee's.

    Then suddenly an invasive plant comes in and a local species of tortoise (which primarily ate cacti, and therefore did not compete with the cows for resources) started becoming 'endangered', and even though they know dang well that an invasive plant was making them ill, they decided to go after the ranchers with 'grazing fees', blaming the ranchers of Nevada because it was easier to fight them then it was an invasive plant, I guess.

    Anyway, there were 52 other ranching families in the area that had been sharing the land with those tortoises since before Nevada became a state, but suddenly they were going to be charged exorbitant grazing fees AND the federal government wanted them to only keep 150 cattle.

    Well, between the grazing fees and the restrictions on the number of cattle they could keep, the government's actions put the other 52 families out of business, but not the Bundy's, who stated that the land was illegally in the possession of the federal government and that they therefore had no right to charge him to use the land, and he is 100% right about that.

    Also, if they are so concerned about those tortoises then why is the BLM planning to euthanize 700 of them before the year ends?
  • #170
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    He didn't say they should be slaves, he said that they ARE still slaves, but they are now slaves to the government welfare system...He was questioning whether they were better off when they had something to do (ie: picking cotton), and a purpose in life, rather than living on welfare with nothing to do, no purpose, and just ending up in prison...Too many people of ALL races have enslaved themselves to the government welfare system and American's quality of life has severely suffered as a result... Looks like the average American comprehension level has also taken a hellacious amount of damage... Actually, that's just one more consequence of the welfare system, people no longer feel that they need an education, you don't even have to be able to read if you choose to live on welfare...

    In summation, Bundy said it badly, but the truth is, too many Americans are enslaved by government dependency, and it is destroying our country's work ethic, our family structures, our economy, our stability, our security, and everything else that made us strong...
  • #751
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    @RandomTask Nor are either the largest of the population.That says a lot for the smaller population being the majority amongst their total numbers.Get real.
  • #1548
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    Rayne Storm, Thanks, for reitering some of my feelings towards what's going on out there in Bunkerville, and so many other places throughout this once very much FAVORED COUNTRY of ours. You've made my explanation of Bundy's verbiage much clearer. Also, you mentoned the lack of education by the people who are welfare recipients, and I'm 100% with you on that as well. Those people live (not well) but they get there 3 squares a day, a decent set of furniture with TV, plus food, cell phones and utilities and all of that for doing practically NOTHING other than going down town once in a while possibly to make an appearance and confirm facts? We surely don't want any welfare cheats now do we? But that's another problem for another day and believe me it happens only too frequently.

    Jim
  • #86
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    So your opinions are not PC? Whats that mean he should lose his ranch? Lets not mix one 's rights and opinions.
    Secondly remember these quotes are from the NY Times which is not a very reliable newspaper especially when it has taken a side on an issue.
    Whats the point of this article? Nasty people have not rights?
    As the source of this information is so poor I would like more accurate information before making any kind of judgement.
    Lastly it doesn't take away from the fact that sen Reid is a crook and liar of the highest order.
  • #968
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    Lose his ranch? No, but he should pay for the materials he used to make his money, or is theft ok as long as it's theft from taxpayers?
  • #1324
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    @AceLuby He's not playing the victim, he IS the victim. There's this thing called the truth, which the media (not even FOX) is not telling people You see, the supreme court ruled long ago on the rights of states versus the rights of territories, and they ruled that Territories were the property of the Federal Government, BUT once they became states any land within those states that were owned by the Federal Government MUST be transferred to state ownership so that all States would be on even footing and the rights of some states would not be squashed and oppressed. Think about that.

    That means that the Federal government, keeping ownership of 80% of Nevada is in gross violation of Nevada's State Rights

    Now, Cliven Bundy's ancestors settled there around the year 1800 and they were given a huge area of land to raise cattle on, but then Nevada became a State, and the Federal government claimed 160000 acres of land that had been his families property, but in exchange for taking back the land (an Unconstitutional act, by the way) they gave Bundy's family grazing rights there, no catches, no fee's.

    Then suddenly an invasive plant comes in and a local species of tortoise (which primarily ate cacti, and therefore did not compete with the cows for resources) started becoming 'endangered', and even though they know dang well that an invasive plant was making them ill, they decided to go after the ranchers with 'grazing fees', blaming the ranchers of Nevada because it was easier to fight them then it was an invasive plant, I guess.

    Anyway, there were 52 other ranching families in the area that had been sharing the land with those tortoises since before Nevada became a state, but suddenly they were going to be charged exorbitant grazing fees AND the federal government wanted them to only keep 150 cattle.

    Well, between the grazing fees and the restrictions on the number of cattle they could keep, the government's actions put the other 52 families out of business, but not the Bundy's, who stated that the land was illegally in the possession of the federal government and that they therefore had no right to charge him to use the land, and he is 100% right about that.

    Also, if they are so concerned about those tortoises then why is the BLM planning to euthanize 700 of them before the year ends?
  • #75
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    Jon Stewart brought out an interesting factoid about Bundy: he's riding his horse holding a large American flag (of course, to show he is an American) whilst, of course, he says he does not recognize the existence of the American government. So, he loves America but denies it can be organized [by anything ...like a constitution]. Wave that flag, Clive, you serious patriot, you.
  • #154
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    He doesn't recognize Nevada land belong to the federal government because under the equal footing doctrine the feds should have given the land to Nevada as they did other states that joined the union. He doesn't recognize the US government because it has become unrecognizable.
  • #509
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    How do you come up with him not recognizing the existence of the American government? Pointing out that in some cases it is in error does not deny its existence. Good try at trying to twist and spin something you don't understand.
  • #515
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    @TigerLandSC
    The equal footing doctrine is completely irrelevant. Nevada didn't WANT the land to be given to it when admitted as a state.
  • #544
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    @Cal Are you speaking for the State of Nevada now? Just how did they indicate, and when, they didn't want the land? Sounds a little suspect to me, so show the relevant documentation.
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  • #105
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    You had to know the media especially the NY Times would try to come up with something to make him look back. I wonder when and to who those comments were made if in fact they were made. This would not be the first time NY Times got real creative to make someone look bad. I'm shocked no details on where the comments came from.
  • #639
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    Come on give it up!! Even Bundy's former big supporter Sean Hannity says his remarks were "despicable and ignorant." Defending this lowlife just makes you look bad!
  • #1300
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    Yeah, they found a lookalike and made him up to look like Bundy and faked his voice and everything, because he is the greatest threat to the socialist muslim negro tyranny.
  • #516
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    If accurately quoting somebody is "character assassination", that speaks volumes about their character (or lack thereof).
  • #539
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    I disagree with his comments regarding race wholeheartedly, but that still does not change the validity of his struggle with the BLM. In a "long, loping conversation" with a reporter, who knows if Bundy was foolish enough to have been manipulated into the topic that has now been used to smear him. That, Cal is what I mean by "character assassination." The sneaky media will stoop to any low to achieve their agenda (whatever that might be at the time…).
  • #541
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    @richstacy Wrong. The slimy news media perpetrated this event and are the ones slinging the mud, even if Bundy was foolish enough to provide some of the dirt.
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  • #87
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    What do "they" do...?
    Smear him..ruin his reputation...paint him in tar and feather him..
    All because he's taken his stand and refuses to back down.
    Senator Reid all but admitted it was going to happen. That's how politicians do it..
    Democratic Donkey Punch..
    Mr Bundy isn't in the "sheeple" fold..
    And for that matter, neither am I, or are my friends..!
    LESSON: STAND UP FOR YOURSELF, YOUR RIGHTS, AND WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN..!!
    DON'T BACK DOWN..!!!!
  • #101
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    STANDING OVATION!!!!!!!!!!

    The criminals {Senator El Guapo Harry Reid} of the progressive liberal camp will do anything underhanded and dirty to keep power and steal land.....native americans learned this.....

    I stand with you as one of WE THE PEOPLE against tyranny in the our government.....
  • #572
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    He doesn't have the right not to pay when others have to. His position is the main tenet of White Supremacy. Only "Those" people have to pay, I'm white and I get this all for free.

    He's doing exactly what he's accusing others of doing, MOOCHING and using his race as the excuse.
  • #597
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    I recommend you do a little bit more research and see how far back this opinion was that was dredged up..God knows when it was made.there is far more to the story.
  • #1044
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    @Knightkore Yawn . i see you're busy defending your racist buddy Bundy. Keep it up . You give me good entertainment when I laugh at how desperate you are for attention.
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  • #320
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    He is an older man that just stated the facts as he perceived them. No one wants to offend anyone so they say nothing. He compared the overwhelming number of blacks that are living in the projects, not working and living off of welfare to the amount of freedom there was under slavery. He's not from the south and probably knows little about slavery past the point of being free or being a slave. How much freedom do the blacks living in the projects, not working and living completely off of welfare have? They have a roof over their heads and food to eat, but what else do they have? Nothing. Are they teaching their children that this is just how it is or that they can get out of it? Most children learn what they live. Political correctness gone overboard again. He disagrees with the welfare state. Saying never learned how to pick cotton was not meant to be specific as I took it. I took it as they never learned how to work. They are not able to support themselves or their families. They just sit around outside all day. I've seen the same in Memphis. Day after day. Nothing changes. They are just sitting out there. Without this welfare state, people would have to work. There's no freedom living that way. It's time to dump most PC and face the ugly truth! FYI, I'm 1/2 black.
  • #526
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    "How much freedom do the blacks living in the projects, not working and living completely off of welfare have?"

    They have complete freedom. And your claim that most blacks don't work and live completely off welfare is racist nonsense in its own right.
  • #1298
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    @Cal I'm sure that he's studied the subject quite a bit, read all the literature on the subject, interviewed successful and unsuccessful black people, etc. Probably even earned a masters in the subject at least.
    I mean, otherwise, he's just be a jerk shooting off his mouth about something he knows nothing about, right? And not only in a racist way, but without even realizing he shouldn't be saying that stuff? I mean, what kind of an idiot would he have to be to do that?
  • #276
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    Let's see. Our countries founders murder 10 million Africans, bring many millions more to this country to work as slaves.

    Oh, but the African Americans who only earned the right to vote in the last century are supposed to just forget all about that, even though their grandparents lived through the genocide of their people.

    Oh but white man with big hat is supposed to be allowed to remember that his grandpa took ownership of some land in the desert.

    African Americans, just heal thyself.
    White man with big hat, remain justly angry.

    Proof positive that conservatives are the worst types of citizens a country should have to endure.
  • #1325
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    Our Countries founders DID NOT bring over any Africans. The slave ships that brought over slaves were usually Europeans who had bought the slaves from other Africans, most of Africa's slave trade was centered around the area that is now called Kenya.

    Second, our founding fathers DID NOT murder 10 million Africans. In fact, they sought to make slavery illegal in the first draft of the Constitution, but the Southern States would not accept that Constitution unless the ban on Slavery was removed.

    The founders had two choices, dropping the Anti-Slavery language from the Constitution or having a Civil War to end Slavery. It wasn't much of a choice. They had just won freedom from the British Empire, and if they started fighting each other their was a real chance that Britain would come back and reclaim America.

    Now, I can't speak for every Founding Father who owned Slaves, but I have studied up on Thomas Jefferson, and to a lesser extent George Washington, both of whom lived in Virginia, where the State had harsh laws that prevented slave-owners from releasing their slaves, and Thomas Jefferson was always fairly poor and not good at managing his money. He had merely inherited his slaves and never had the financial ability to release them. there were likely similar laws in other states, besides just Virginia.
  • #52
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    One may disapprove of Mr. Cliven Bundy's comments, but that does not have any effect on his arguments insofar his dispute(s) with the BLM go. Like many defense attorneys frequently tell us: "He may be a __________fill in the applicable blank), but that doesn't make him guilty". Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton belonged to a SEGREGATED Country Club in Forrest City, St. Francis County, AR up until the late 1980s, until the two state newspapers (separate at the time) the Arkansas Democrat and the Arkansas Gazette, broke the story. They never spoke up against Arkansas' 44th Amendment, which forbade elected officials and government employees from supporting integration and civil rights on penalty of loss of office and criminal sanctions; Bill Clinton once said publicly the former NY governor Mario Cuomo "looks like a Mafioso"; he is a sexual predator and has used his official position to influence and coerce young women into having sex with him; and he committed perjury during an official Court hearing/deposition; and many other juicy tidbits about the Clintons, but still people are CRAZY about them, and would have them right back in the Oral Office if they can. Go figure. Different standards for different people? Even the most despicable people have rights under our laws.
  • #520
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    Bundy has gone to court multiple times in his dispute with the BLM. He's lost every time, because he has no legal leg to stand on.
  • #975
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    @Cal He's stealing raw materials and doesn't want to pay for them. Now that I think about it... it's a very conservative trait.
  • #1327
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    @AceLuby He's not playing the victim, he IS the victim. There's this thing called the truth, which the media (not even FOX) is not telling people You see, the supreme court ruled long ago on the rights of states versus the rights of territories, and they ruled that Territories were the property of the Federal Government, BUT once they became states any land within those states that were owned by the Federal Government MUST be transferred to state ownership so that all States would be on even footing and the rights of some states would not be squashed and oppressed. Think about that.

    That means that the Federal government, keeping ownership of 80% of Nevada is in gross violation of Nevada's State Rights

    Now, Cliven Bundy's ancestors settled there around the year 1800 and they were given a huge area of land to raise cattle on, but then Nevada became a State, and the Federal government claimed 160000 acres of land that had been his families property, but in exchange for taking back the land (an Unconstitutional act, by the way) they gave Bundy's family grazing rights there, no catches, no fee's.

    Then suddenly an invasive plant comes in and a local species of tortoise (which primarily ate cacti, and therefore did not compete with the cows for resources) started becoming 'endangered', and even though they know dang well that an invasive plant was making them ill, they decided to go after the ranchers with 'grazing fees', blaming the ranchers of Nevada because it was easier to fight them then it was an invasive plant, I guess.

    Anyway, there were 52 other ranching families in the area that had been sharing the land with those tortoises since before Nevada became a state, but suddenly they were going to be charged exorbitant grazing fees AND the federal government wanted them to only keep 150 cattle.

    Well, between the grazing fees and the restrictions on the number of cattle they could keep, the government's actions put the other 52 families out of business, but not the Bundy's, who stated that the land was illegally in the possession of the federal government and that they therefore had no right to charge him to use the land, and he is 100% right about that.

    Also, if they are so concerned about those tortoises then why is the BLM planning to euthanize 700 of them before the year ends?
  • #3
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    http://www.aim.org/aim-column/why-the-media-e...

    Biden’s attack on Obama was reported in the February 5, 2007 issue of the New York Observer. Biden discussed the war in Iraq, Democratic presidential hopefuls, and his plan to divide Iraq along ethnic lines between Sunni, Shiite, and Kurdish Iraqis. But when talking about Obama, Biden said,“I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy. I mean, that’s a storybook, man.” The audio of Biden’s comment about Obama from the Observer interview can now be heard on YouTube.
  • #12
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    I fail to see that "attack". If Biden said, "Obama the negro, needs to be on a slave on plantation picking cotton," then I would call that an attack. Bundy is breaking the law. If you don't like the law, change it. Bundy is a backward, law breaking moron.
  • #35
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    @Crashd1 Of course you don't see it.....

    Implication was that President Hussein Obama is an exception to other african americans being not articulate, not bright, not clean and not nice-looking.....

    Dude.....stop making excuses.....
  • #50
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    @Knightkore
    "Dude.....stop making excuses....."
    Maybe Bundy should as well and man up. Seems he'd rather whine than follow the law.
  • #54
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    @BenFE That's been Senator El Guapo Harry Reid all along.....he's not following and in fact he is attacking the Constitution and WE THE PEOPLE.....AND ALL OUR FREEDOMS.....
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