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  • #1
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    "Superstar" waiters get paid more by customers for giving good service? How dare they make their less talented co-workers look bad?!! That's so unfair, to reward good performance! Mediocre service needs to be legislated immediately!
  • #3
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    Oh, cut the crap. Using the VERY few to make an argument for all the rest is pretty weak.

    In my home county there isn't ANYONE pulling tips like $28 an hour. Not even close.

    The tipped ones in any of the 'better' positions come in around $15 but that's rare, too.

    I'm partial to having the whole story, not cherry-picking to prove an invalid point.
  • #4
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    I think you missed the point.....even the best waiters and waitresses in most restaurants can't ever get about the poverty line. There are a few exceptions with very upscale restaurants where the servers do quite well......but the vast majority of food service workers do not work in upscale places, regardless of how good they are, because the vast majority of restaurants are not like that.

    It is not about punishing good service....it is about finding away to get a whole group of people out of poverty.....and if that hurts the rich a little bit so what?

    Rich people have benefitted far more from this economy then any other group. It is about time another group got some help. The Gap between rich and poor has been getting wider since the 80's and if we do not start to do something about it it is going to get dangerous.
  • #6
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    "Superstar" waiters, by your definition, typically have nothing to do with how good their service is, but instead is garnered by where they work. I've had some excellent service where I tip 60% at a cheap breakfast place and it was a whopping $6 tip. Meanwhile the "superstar" who can't be bothered to even fill my water glass at an upscale restaurant gets a 10% tip on the $200 bill and just made almost 4x as much as what you would categorize as a 'bad' server simply because they work at a place that doesn't make them as much money. That's the problem w/ your guys' arguments on minimum wage, you think that wage determines how hard someone works or how good they are at their job, when that's simply not the case.
  • #17
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    ...if only it was about what you say it is about, you might have a point. But, because it is not, you don't.
  • #18
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    @AceLuby Tacitus is right, and you guys want to wrap up this mediocrity with a rose-colored blanket. It's not even mediocrity anymore. It's just plain lazy, I don't have to do sh!t, now give me some money attitude.

    Your breakfast shop example is nothing more than someone at the entry level of the service industry in that case. If they are awesome, then leave that place and move up to the next "pricing tier" of service. If they don't want to do that, then that is their CHOICE. At the opposite end of the spectrum, if that person is that bad consistently, they won't last at that level either and back down the chain they go. The notion that this can not happen is a matter of acceptable complacency.

    This evolving notion of just show up to work and you can "get by" for the rest of your life will continue to devolve our country into more and more pathetic excuses for human beings. Oh, and now I lost my job where I barely had to work. Please pay me for at least 5 years until "I" think that I can find something suitable for my discerning talents. I refuse to take a pay cut or go somewhere where I would actually have to work.
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  • #8
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    In Kansas city area where I owned my restaurants, my servers minimum wage was $2.50-2.75 an hour. They averaged over $20 an hour on"ok" days and much more on busy days. I only hired those that could do excellent service or they didn't last long. I based their quality in their tips. Minimum wage was $7.35 an hour and u paid the difference if they didn't make that much, but that rarely happened. It was a mom and pop restaurant. I'm a big tipper for great service, but if they are making that much an hour, I won't tip as much. Service in Oregon is terrible, partially because they are ok with sub par service. They don't work hard to go above and beyond in service.
  • #26
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    I can back up your $20/hr on an OK day. When I was in HS many moons ago, I worked for a restaurant that had two nights of all you could eat fish and chicken. The waitresses that worked either night would put in about 6 hours on a shift and EASILY walk out of there with $300-400 a night in tips. Several worked just those two nights and did quite well. Back then, $600-700 a week was GOOD money, still is.
  • #5
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    I'm telling you right now, if it's raised tipping will stop.$15/hr to take my order and run my food is nuts. I'll get it myself. Who is it, Applebees, that has the POS gadget sitting right on the table? More companies will find a way to ween themselves off from paying more per worker.

    Workers in fine dining will still probably make a great living, but I doubt that will happen in the cookie-cutter sports bars or burger joints.
  • #75
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    @MolonLabe At $15/hour? I believe that is a livable wage that they would be happy with. Plus, maybe they get very modest tips to help offset the taxes. I think it's just fine.
  • #188
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    @TonyTheTiger True, so let me clarify and say a livable wage for the average family size. If somebody working for minimum wage has 10 kids, they made a bad decision. But I am for helping families to be able to live a decent life while working to make an honest living.
  • #62
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    They're concerned that the city's suggested $15 minimum wage.

    If you're making $15.00 an hour you don't need to be tipped. I know. I've worked for that not to many years ago, and my job didn't include tips.
  • #57
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    I had to pick sumthun.

    People don't need a minimum wage - they need a living wage.

    There are multiple ways of achieving it.
    A minimum wage isn't it.

    Waiters, waitresses, bartenders, etc... have it some what figured out.
    First - get the IRSs hand out of your pocket.
    A salaried job has to be 20%, 30%, or 40% higher - just to buy off the IRS.
    The more traceable earned income - the more they loot.

    The minimum wage is fully accounted for as earned income.
    You can't hide any of it.

    Tips is black market money... cash, keep it in your pocket, don't deposit it.... pay bills face to face with cash...- and, you can get by with a much smaller audited income.

    Full time jobs with benefits are still a nice way to go.
    but,
    They may require pesky stipulations, like an education, certificates, qualifications, etc.
    Waiters and bartenders don't have to be board certified.

    That is why not as many people working in the food service industry are keen on the new minimum wage..
    They don't mind working for a living.
    They just hard enthusiastic about working for the IRS.

    And,
    It's true...
    A lot of the tipping is a guilt trip - based on the perception of poverty wages for the servers.
    Once the customers feel that the servers are properly taken care of - they will less likely to dig deep for a benevolent tip.

    Once the black market cash dries up,- and, they have to pay taxes on all that they make....
    They will wind up with less effective income.
  • #16
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    i do not support the MW hike because raising MW just causes everything else to get more expensive, government needs to lower prices of everything else so more of our money feels more like a wage increase because we'll have more of it left. It does no good to make $13.00/hr if
    a gallon of milk costs you $14.00 and then the price of gas to go get the milk another $7.00 GALLON plus another $200 a day just to live in your own house (cost+utils+insurance, etc) that milk costs you$221.00?
  • #40
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    Actually hike in MW has very little impact on prices. Adds less than a quarter to price of a Big Mac. That quarter covers all of associated cost related to production of goods used in burger, transportation, and labor.
  • #13
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    I had breakfast in Times Square once and had a terrible experience. I left $1 as tip to show my disapproval of the service. The bus boy ran out of the restaurant after me and demanded that I tip more (presumably because tips is what he lives on).

    On the flip side, I was in Amsterdam and tried to tip a server for exceptional service and she looked at me like a slapped her in the face. My friend had to explain (in Dutch so I have no idea what she actually said) that I was American and did not understand how they did things. She just laughed like you would at a child for doing something silly and walked away. Granted it was a bit rude, but I still prefer that to our way of doing things.
  • #151
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    Two things! One, why does everyone think that everyone that makes minimum wage works in the food/hospitality sector of the labor force where tipping is the norm and subsidies wages. There are thousands of people who work in the agricultural sector, or who work doing menial jobs where there are no tips to top up their minimum wage salaries.

    Secondly, for most of the posters here, just what percentage of the labor force do you think makes minimum wage? 90%! 80%! Even 10%!!! Would you believe 4.7%? http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2013/ted_20130325... The resulting wage push inflation would be minuscule. The way people go on about it, you'd think we'd have the hyperinflation that Germany had in the early 1900"s!
  • #120
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    Economics 101.
    The purpose of raising the minimum wage is NOT to help lift workers out of poverty (minimum wage goes up, so does everything else, then you are in the same boat as before). The real reason congress wants a minimum wage increase is so that there is more income tax/social security tax collected without giving the impression of a tax increase.
  • #76
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    Why is it so difficult to live on minimum wage? When are we going to discuss the government and the overwhelming number of regulations, taxes and fees the average person has to pay. Either directly, but, more often from the increased cost of everything.

    The cost of complying with IRS rules alone is nearly 1/4 of the price of all goods sold in this country.
  • #53
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    A minimum pay raise seems like a good idea. I know that a servers tips depend not only on performance but also the type of dining establishment. Plenty of other types of service industry workers make a higher minimum wage than wait staff.

    I also feel tips should be an extra something you give to excellent service. I dislike the feeling I must give a minimum 15, or 20% to a server who was just plain lousy. Pay an above poverty line wage, and leave tips as a bonus. Then you have a true incentive for servers to rise above barely passable service.
  • #46
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    I think raising the minimum wage for wait staff will discourage dining out in general. I’d rather stay home and cook as it is now. Increasing the cost of dining out will likely cause more people to do the same.(I’ll be doing shrimp thermidor for sweetie for Mom’s Day.)

    That having been said, my daughter is a waitress/bartender in a moderately priced joint in a college town. I expect she’s pretty good at her job. I know she does well above $15/HR on all but the slowest nights.
  • #185
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    Oh WAAAAAHHH! Poor crybaby waiters and waitresses whining about $9.32 per hour PLUS tips. Do your job right and you'll be pulling down some decent money. Waiting tables isn't meant to be a lifelong career that brings in a livable wage anyway. Traditionally it's always been a way for college students to supplement their income while they get their education. I'm more concerned about the MILLIONS of factory laborers who actually produce something (and drive the economy) who are busting their a$$e$ every day for scrub wages of $8.00 to $10.00 per hour.
  • #183
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    Why don't you liberals invest YOUR own money to purchase a fruit farm? Then you can hire fruit pickers and pay them whatever you want.

    Just like every other cause you liberals support, it's always about using government to force other people to spend their own money how you think it should be spent. Of course you'd never dream of spending your own money. It was the same thing on the solar power thread. You keep talking about how great it is, yet you haven't invested a single dime of your own money to purchase a solar power system for yourself.
  • #184
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    I can't imagine what convoluted logic some used to arrive at that conclusion, but you're dead wrong. Minimum wage jobs are very important to our economy. I'm sure just about everyone began there. I know I did.

    The problem is that government has no lawful power to force an employer to pay a particular wage. It's a contract between employer and employee. Labor also has a market value.

    You far left liberals try to make this issue much more than it is. Only a tiny percentage of people actually work for only minimum wage, and half of them are teenagers with no job skills and no employment history. Their labor simply isn't worth more.

    Now that's not to say those minimum wage workers are stuck making low wages. They can acquire more knowledge and skill so that their labor is worth more. That's what I did. That's what you did too.

    We don't need government forcing employers to pay part time high school burger flippers $10.10 per hour. We need government to get out of the way and let the free market system function.
  • #150
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    TIPS are for "excellence" and will continue to be paid to those who provide that 'extra' something. Commissioned sales people make more by selling more, other workers receive promotions and incentive, wait people have to rely on the largesse of their clients. Which, in the majority, is meager.
    Feeling that your basic needs can be met by your wages leaves you freedom to treat ill mannered jerks with "service" and the pleasant ones "SERVICE". All without 'modifications' to the clients food.
  • #128
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    Raising the minimum wage is a failure, others will raise their prices to compensate for the raise to make up the lose they will claim. its bad enough prices are being raised from the price gouging of oil.
  • #123
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    I saw the headline and said to myself, "This is more crap from Dain Fitzgerald." I guess I'm becoming psychic in my old age. All one has to do is look at many of the states of the old Confederacy that don't have state minimum wage laws, and still believe in slavery, albeit in a slightly different form (wage slavery) to see that tipped employees are only required to be paid the federal minimum of a WHOPPING $2.13 an hour in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas, Virginia, Kentucky (didn't officially secede, but got a star on the rebel flag), along with other (mostly red states) Indiana, Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, New Jersey, Oklahoma, South Dakota, Utah, and Wyoming. My late Dad, thought $1.00 was a great tip no matter how good the service was, the price of the meal, how busy, the place was, or how hard the wait staff was having to bust their butts. Dain, Congress, and all of the other jerks who are against paying them a fair wage should be forced to live on $2.13 an hour for a couple of years and see how far it gets them. I definitely call BS on the $28.00 an hour too. Never trust studies done by those who have a vested interest in the study. RJ Reynolds said smoking wasn't bad for you. "skewed by the lavishly rewarded servers"? That's maybe an accurate figure FOR the most lavishly rewarded servers. My wife used to serve for a very ritzy, very famous country club. She did very well, and like I said, that figure may be accurate for the most expensive places when the tables are going through several bottles of Dom Pérignon at one meal. What they don't tell you is: tips are split with captains, servers, busboys, dishwashers, etc. BS on it being the average. There are more Waffle Houses than high end places. Conviently on the Washington Restaurant Association Site, trying to research how they came up with their figures, the one link to where they got their numbers is "ERROR 404 The page you are looking for does not exist."
  • #130
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    minimum wage here in Texas is 7.50 an hour. some of the food industries don't pay that cause of the tips. back when minimum was 7.25, friend worked at sonic for 5.10 plus tips, if it wasn't for tips, she wouldn't been able to make it.
    talking of the confederacy, ummm, after the war yankee carpet baggers came in and raised prices on everything.
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