• #40
    Is he sweating gravy in that picture? Does he feel the same way about drowning and deaths by drunk driving or texting or pick you cause celeb.
  • #52
    @Jason2012 yup..we don't see anyone raising hell about increasing training to drive. How many are killed each year in crashes??
  • #307
    @WiserWords They are if the drunk gets behind the wheel. That isn't an accident, it is a crime - and you don't blame the car.
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  • #37
    Back on January 3, 2014 I made this post......
    Here are my predictions for 2014 - at minimum two school shootings with a minimum of 30 dead kids, five public shootings with casualties, four domestic homocides that will make national news (shooters will be men, more dead children including their mothers, grandmothers and cousins.) It's going to be another bloody year and there's nothing anybody can do to prevent it.

    Like I said, I don't like Moore but his is right.
  • #41
    I know it's too much to ask but what the hell. Whomever voted me down, two things.
    #1- why the vote down ?
    #2-have these things not happened?
  • #53
    @jamayla could be wrong but I suspect they think you are indirectly advocating gun control - don't know if you are or not but that is all I can think of.
  • #122
    @jamayla They voted you down because
    a) Your said Moore was right even though you don't like him
    b) You acknowledged that gun violence happens and is bad.

    Gun advocates don't like either of those things said aloud.
  • #246
    My response to your predictions is "So what?" Do you want hired as a psych?

    We have 320,000,000 Americans.
    There are bound to be problems withsome of them.

    I could predict that forty older Americans will cause a death with thier driving.......does that mean we should forget senior have rights and take all older people's licenses...I think not.

    Death..though very tragic to the love ones....happens every few seconds. Its a part of life....well the end of life.

    We are becoming a country of cowards so afraid of death that we sell our soles for a few more days on earth.
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  • #352
    Not in the least true.
    Violent crime is at a near 50 year low, with assaults using firearms DOWN 68% in the same time.
    Those are figures from the FBI & I doubt they're trying to cover up anything, as that would make their existence less necessary.
  • #365
    To be more exact, violence, including gun violence, always has been a "normal" part of American life. Societies/cultures that depend upon and revolve around firearms, as the United States has since day one (inotherwords, since this country's founding), are much more violence-prone. Our dependence on firearms has now come home to roost, in a big way, and we're now seeing the net results, in the streets of our poorest urban areas, in families and among friends when disputes break out and turn deadly when firearms are present, and in terms of mass-shootings such as the VA Tech, Columbine, and the Sandy Hook shootings, not to mention a bunch of others.
  • #382
    @Mike_the_Limey Yes I 100% agree, but the question was "Is Michael Moore Right That Shootings Have Become a Part of Normal American Life?"
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  • #11
    Indisputable, and everyone seems concerned, especially a target as big as Moore. I'll also venture that reasonable people would like it to stop. Our disagreement is on how.
  • #126
    Okay, fess up. WHO voted no???? Really? So you say NO because guns and shootings have NOT become a part of normal American life? What alternate universe are you living in?
    Fact: The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world. Fact: We don't know exactly HOW many MORE guns are actually out there BECAUSE there's no universal gun registry, and thus not a simple way to pin down the exact number of firearms in the U.S. FACT: According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which handles that registration, there were MORE THAN 3.1 million National Firearms Act-registered weapons in the U.S. as of March 2012. That includes more than 488,000 machine guns and more than 2 million “destructive devices” such as grenades, which are also classified under the law. Fact: The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other developed countries. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country. FACT: We've had so many mass shootings in the U.S. we've had to redefine the term. We NOW actually have a "Guide to Mass Shootings in America," writing that mass shootings typically involve a single episode in a single location, usually a public place, involving the death or injury of 4 or more people.
    AND our posters are saying that shootings have NOT become a part of normal American life? Unbelievable.
  • #305
    "Fact: The United States has more guns and gun deaths than any other developed country in the world."

    True, mostly. But what causes those deaths? Is it guns or something else, like our draconian drug laws? Most murders, 90%, are committed by criminals with long violent records and most are drug or gang related. Other countries like Canada, Norway, Switzerland, and Israel also have high rates of gun ownership, but low murder rates. How do our drug laws compare?

    Guns also used to be much easier to get prior to 1968, yet the murder rate has only increased with more and more gun control. Since the murder rate has been decreasing gun laws have been relaxed in most places. If more guns = more murders shouldn't the opposite be true?

    "Fact: We don't know exactly HOW many MORE guns are actually out there BECAUSE there's no universal gun registry, and thus not a simple way to pin down the exact number of firearms in the U.S."

    Not exactly. We know preciously how many guns are manufactured each year and if pone is recovered at a crime scene it can be traced back to the dealer who first sold it. True, there is no universal gun registry, and thank goodness for that. We do still live in a free country after all.

    "FACT: According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, which handles that registration, there were MORE THAN 3.1 million National Firearms Act-registered weapons in the U.S. as of March 2012. That includes more than 488,000 machine guns and more than 2 million “destructive devices” such as grenades, which are also classified under the law."

    True, because I don't feel like checking so I'll take your word for it. But, SO WHAT? Exactly one NFA weapon has been used in a murder, and the murderer was a police officer. NFA weapons have zero effect on crime. All this proves is that legitimate guns owners are a remarkably law abiding bunch.

    "Fact: The U.S. gun murder rate is about 20 times the average for all other developed countries. That means that Americans are 20 times as likely to be killed by a gun than is someone from another developed country."

    An exaggeration. The murder rate in the countries of Europe, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand runs about 0.22-0.5 per 100,000. Israel is a bit higher at 0.9 ours is 3.6. That's 11-12 times higher, not 20. And I wonder how their drug laws compare to ours? If you remove all drug and gang related murders from the US murder rate ours would compare quite favorably with the rest of the developed world. Just as an FYI Mexico is 10.0 and Jamaica is 30 something.

    "FACT: We've had so many mass shootings in the U.S. we've had to redefine the term."

    That's not a redefinition, that's just a definition. We've had mass shootings since 1910 and why is an important question. 65 out of 67 mass shooters in the last 30 years had mental problems. Mass shootings increased from the 70s-90s when they started decreasing. We deinstitutionalized the treatment of the mentally ill starting in the 60s, and have had a very poor record of treatment for them since then, coincidence?

  • #306
    So, you did your research and have taken the time to affirm or discredit my arguments. I appreciate that but what point are you trying to make? Let me guess. 1) There's nothing we can do about the violence in this country. It IS what it is. Boys will be boys and gangs will be gangs. 2) WE have a poor record of treating the mentally ill so what's a country to do? 3) America's murder rate is exaggerated so don't worry--be happy. 4) Guns and violence are NOT part of our every day life. Is that what you're saying?
    Come on, Galt. Belly up to the bar---step up to the plate--how about some solutions/legislation/controls ? You are an intelligent guy. Don't JUST do the rebuttals. Don't JUST overcome MY objections. Let's try to prevent these tragedies. That's all I'm asking and that's all the parents are asking.
  • #123
    I'm no Michael Moore fan and disagree with a lot of his political views etc, but he is right on one thing. There are countries that allow guns but yet have very little gun violence-gun crime/homicides.

    Yes, those countries have varying gun laws, some restrictions etc....but the fact remains many of their households have a firearm of some sort and yet low gun deaths. You don't have to look far away. Our neighbors to the north have over 8 million known(could be more) owned firearms with a population of 35 million and very little gun crime. Yes, most of the firearms in Canada are hunting rifles, but it may surprise some that under certain criteria and checks you can own semi-auto weapons and even something like an AR15 in Canada.

    I'm certainly not against gun ownership or guns, but something is seriously wrong with us when other countries that do allow guns have nowhere near the number of gun deaths.

    So if the gun itself is not the problem in other nations, then what is it for us? It has to be the other factors that affect crime and gun crime in general. Socio-economic factors, poverty, gun culture-gun attitudes, gangs, drugs, criminals who shouldn't be paroled, education etc etc...many factors that affect crime.
  • #117
    The key word Moore mentioned is fear. Many of us fear someone is going to rob us and wives end up killing their own children or husbands because they thought they were burglars. Many have lost faith in God, but still claim religious rights as they wave rifles in front of their church. This materialistic country has made it appallingly clear that it's no longer "Love your neighbor as yourself" but I'll shoot and kill my neighbor if he/she touches any of my stuff.
  • #229
    well im sure some are like that' but none i have seen ' and having faith in god you know evil each year will grow life is a day by day thing now' in the 40's or 50's ppl were some what alright i guess'but those day are long gone i have a gun i keep in the house i hope ill never use it to harm someone.
  • #289
    @Smilingreaper -Being a true Christian means putting all of your faith in God and expressing kindness and charity even in the face of hatred. In a sense it's almost like Murray's perspective on being a guts and glory soldier in the movie "Stripes". Once the basic principles are learned the duty becomes second nature and the major principles are written on your heart and you throw the rule book away. In my perspective, if anyone uses a firearm for anything other than killing game for food then they aren't a true or "real" Christian.
  • #56
    Shootings are not more common now then 30 years ago, so why does he think that suddenly now they are becoming accepted? Murder rates are actually at a very low rate now.
  • #90
    Exactly right. Shootings have always been a part of life in America, but now they are hyped incessantly by those with an agenda.
  • #268
    @galt45 - I believe that the 24 hour news cycle and the worldwide communications network has made us more aware. The availability of information has made it easier to compare what is happening here with guns, with how guns and gun violence are handled in other countries.
  • #42
    Michael Moore is simply just another fat leftist Socialist PIG
    He is just another Liberal Hypocrite
    The leftists hate guns and just seek to dis arm all American legal citizens
    its been the goal of the left for the last thirty yrs.
  • #112
    He's right to a degree -- but who is commiting these crimes???

    The media would love for everyone to believe that all gun crime committed in this country is perpetrated by a conservative, Christian, Tea Party Patriot, NRA member, or Republican. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. If you look at the most heinous gun crimes committed most recently in our country -- you'll see, most of these crimes were committed by mentally-impaired people who, as it turns out, are liberals, progressives, or big Democratic supporters. Do those on the right commit gun crimes? Unfortunatelly yes, but not at the level of those on the left -- especially mass murders!

    A case in point in one of the most recent nut-job to commit a gun crime: Chris Dorner, a former LA-police officer who was on a murder rampage in Los Angeles and Southern California. In his manifesto Dorner touts Democrats and their left-wing agenda. He defends Barrack Obama and most of his policies, Dorner also praises the liberal talking heads, Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Pat Harvey, Brian Williams, Soledad Obrien, Wolf Blitzer, Meredith Viera, Tavis Smiley, and Anderson Cooper for their great work, while saying some vile things about NRA president Wayne LaPierre. I find it interesting that the politics of personal destruction is considered neither personal nor destructive if used by a Liberal.

    Convicted Family Research Council HQ shooter, Floyd Lee Corkins, was a hard-core left winger and gay activist who was angry at Chic Fil’a because its CEO supports traditional marriage. Corkins was egged on by the liberal Southern Poverty Law Center’s hate rhetoric which had listed FRC as a hate group because of their conservative stance.[Note: SPLC is a close ally of President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder]

    Adam Lanza, known for the recent premeditated murders at Sandy Hook Elementary School, was a registered Democrat whose facebook rants showed he despised Christians.

    James Holmes, known for the premeditated murders at the Century Theater in Aurora, Colorado was a progressive liberal, registered Democrat, and an Occupy Wall Street participant, who had been an Obama campaign worker.

    Loughner, who shot Congresswoman Gabby Giffords and killed a conservative Federal Judge, is described as a far left liberal with a love of socialist ideology.

    Nidal Malik Hasan who is a militant Islamist and registered Democrat was responsible for the premeditated Fort Hood murders.

    Cho Seung-Hui, a registered Democrat, was responsible for the premeditated VA Tech murders.
    The list could go on to include many other Liberals who have committed unthinkable crimes with guns.

    Two of the biggest crimes -- arguably treasonous crimes -- in the last few years were the illegal gun-running operations by Eric Holder and Barrack Obama secretly authorizing a one-billion dollar gun-running operation to supply Libyan rebels. The latter operation resulted in those weapons being turned against our ambassador in Benghazi. But, of course, Obama being a liberal Democrat, the media refuses to pursue these crimes since treason is not a popular topic when democrats are in power.

    I assure you that the lame-stream media, at first glance, will blame that Tragedy that took place in Isla Vista of those on the Right, or 2nd Amendment proponents for political expediency.....IMO, of course.
  • #116
    @S-N-A-F-U It does not matter who is committing the crimes because the "who" is a large enough and widespread fraction of society to place the U.S. among the leaders in the world of gun related violence. The availability of guns to those segments of society who would use them for ill purpose is part of the problem.
  • #135
    @Zazziness No, it's only been "debunked" by leftist sources looking to provide cover for your brethren. Face it, it's your people who are violent reactionaries who commit most emotionally motivated crimes. Being a revolutionary to a leftist is akin to being a martyr for radical Islam. It's part of your culture.
  • #136
    @CaryNickel No, it's been debunked by facts. What you have to remember is that just because you don't like a fact does not make it untrue. There are several issues you should apply that to.
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  • #5
    Everything he wrote is true...and...unfortunately he's right....none of it will matter...we are a very violent, sick society...and few people seem to even give a damn
  • #48
    Is it not the height of irony that we have become what the NRA wanted? A society of passive acceptance knowing there's nothing we can do to prevent these mass shootings.....and when that selfsame fact is uttered by someone like Moore they cry foul?
  • #49
    That's an extraordinarily polarized, blanket inaccurate characterization. Hold the individual accountable; not everyone for the acts of a few. As long as you keep generalizing everyone into the same group as the anomaly, you will always be wrong.
  • #50
    @jamayla so you think the acts of a really bad guy should make people, who have done nothing wrong, accept punishment and give up the ability to defend themselves?? What kind of sense does it make to expect people to see violence, and react by giving up their ability to defend themselves?? Btw, these same rights we're talking about, a lot of people have died to protect them. What do you say about them? Are they not relevant? You want people to willingly give up their ability to defend, do something about their need to defend. Get rid of criminals and make the existence of governmental tyranny an impossibility, then talk about it. Taking a persons means of defense while the need for defense is still there is nothing short of cruelty. Reference Sandy Hook and gun free zones if you need an example.
  • #84
    @Slowmo Thank you for proving my point. I was NOT referring to any gun control. I AM talking about the desensitivity that has now become our way of life. You need to step back, stop playing the victim for JUST a second and seperate the two.
  • #113
    I was not talking about one ...individual or event ...look at our favorite sport (Football)...or our favorite movies (usually violent action flicks)...or the high rate of every imaginable form of violent crime in this society...nor was I blaming guns...we are a sick, twisted society...and that can be seen in almost all aspects of our daily life....and no, most countries...aren't near as bad
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  • #257
    It is a problem that deranged people can legally own guns, like this last guy, who suffered from Asperger's. When he was rejected by women a few times, he snaps and his legal guns become time bombs for some innocent bystanders.
    These deaths were preventable, the 2nd Amendment must be restricted for the sake of new possible victims.
  • #163
    We seem, as a nation, to have agreed to accept a certain level of carnage as the price that must be paid to exercise our 2nd Amendment rights in the way we do.

    And the same sort of calculus applies to the 47,000 traffic deaths we incur in a year.

    Or the deaths of people in hospitals who die as a result of infections contracted in those hospitals.

  • #161
    BUT then again there are so many things that have become a "normal" part of the amerikan life....WRONGFUL ARRESTS, OVER PAID POLITICIANS, disrespect to our veterans...making all kinds of laws but in order to get anything done money no care....
  • #156
    Sadly it has become true and because our lawmakers can't grow a pair of balls and ignore the NRA and makeit even harder for people to get guns who have mental problems it will continue to be true.
  • #284
    The NRA didn't close the mental institutions. This guy was obviously disturbed. Too bad the liberal attitude of our county's leaders has put an end to personal responsibility and accountability. Two of the main reasons that lunatics like this are not stopped before they even think of something like this

    A special thanks to the liberal ,gun hating media who sensationalizes shootings for ratings. They gave this guy and many other shooters the attention they were seeking.

    Thanks to the liberals for privacy laws which keep mental health worker from informing Law enforcement about potentially unstable people before and incident , not after it occurs
  • #134
    So sad, but Mr. Moore hit the nail on the head. The mentality of America seems to be knuckle dragging half wits when it comes to common sense gun control and their representatives.
  • #262
    @Pflack @Pflack You should actually do some research on this subject before commenting bud.

    Here Ill break it down for you.

    32000 gun deaths in 2011. This is the number paraded around by the dems, and is a pretty constant number from year to year. What they dont tell you is that of that 30,000, 60% were Suicides another 3% were accidental.

    That puts the actual murder rate between 11 and 12,000. Now of that number 80% of gun homicides in the nation are gang or drug related.

    This means the actual gun homicides in this country done by ordinary people who suddenly commit a crime at a mere 2,200 per year. In a country with nearly HALF of all households owning a gun, and nearly one LEGALLY owned gun per person, only 2,200 gun murders occur that don't involve a gang. That's less than .00001% of legally owned guns per crime by your "previously innocent civilian".

    Feel free to fact check it. These numbers come directly from the FBIs Uniform Crime Statistics for 2010 and 2011.

    Heres your reality check mate. You dont know what your talking about.
  • #272
    @gumbii - Not as rare as you seem to think. Guns as a means of suicide and accidential gun deaths make up a substantial percentage of gun deaths in America.
    Over 40 years ago Life Magazine ran a special issue that documented every gun death that occurred on one day in America. If you could look up that article you might find it most enlightening.
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  • #15
    Very low probability. How many more people will be killed by drunk drivers this weekend, with no mention from Mr. Moore? Odds are more people will be killed or maimed in grill fires.
  • #24
    @Tacitus01 I think you're getting off track. I don't care for Moore, but what he wrote IS true. We've become so immune to the stories, videos, pictures, of shootings that there's little to no shock value anymore. Yes people get killed other ways indeed, but when it comes to gun related homocides we don't even blink.
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  • #331
    Yes they have, and in many ways it has been a normal part of American life since the Civil War. Many people don't own guns or have never fired one, but from the "old West" days to gangsters in the 1920's and 30's to the western movies of the 50's and 60's to all the violent movies and shows of today (which I enjoy watching too), violence and especially shooting violence, has been with us and ingrained into our culture. Now constant wars since Vietnam have brought home to millions more.
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