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  • #5
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    It's about cost effectiveness. I'd also like to point out that combating homelessness with police force is also far more expensive than welfare. Which begs the question, is it about fiscal responsibility of our govt, or is it really about punishing people we believe are below us. My guess is it's the latter with the farce of the former. Guess we'll see in the comments...
  • #58
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    Unfortunately there are some among us who would rather choose the cheapest option, shoot them on the spot
  • #95
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    @DragonHawk1959 Hey, it's worked so far. Violent crime has dramatically decreased, yet our prison population continually increases while we focus on poor people crimes and let bankers, CEO's, and their children go free even when they kill people or the overall economy. But at least that guy peddling dime bags is behind bars. I feel safer already.
  • #7
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    There are at least 3x as many vacant buildings as there are homeless people. Fastest growing homeless population is families. There are lots of things wrong with this picture.
  • #44
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    The problem lies in the details.

    The story declares that this was an "independent economic impact analysis"...

    ...which was "commissioned by the Central Florida Commission on Homelessness."

    Now...who did they "commission" to do the "independent" economic impact analysis?

    Tulsa, Okla based company Creative Housing Solutions...

    ...a company that BUILDS the SOLUTION they are trying to SELL to THE PUBLIC!

    And guess what? It's the same solution we've been talking about for years:

    House the homeless in the vacant buildings and homes that are currently being maintained by local governments anyway.

    Ensure they have access to health and mental health providers.

    Educate those who are willing and monitor those who need monitoring.

    It's just damned stupid that these reporters think the public is this stupid.

    Still trying to find how much these altruistic individuals charged the State of Florida to tell them something they already knew.
  • #85
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    @viniketa

    But many of these people took out mortgages they couldn't afford..it was immoral, just ask the bankers who gave the loans, knowing they were impossible and then proceeded to evict them.

    Now all those houses are sitting empty while thousands live in or near the streets stretching the already overburdened private and social services..

    Serve them right for losing their jobs...(sarcasm)
  • #100
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    @LEC Since those who are benefiting the most from the current economic "upturn" don't really need or want to buy more consumer goods, across many business sectors today the hot topic is how and what to market to the poor.

    In the financial services sector, that business model has become targeting borrowers who can't really affords to borrow and primarily making profit not from the interest on the principle (though that is overly usurious) but by escalating all the fees associated with servicing the loan. The more behind the borrower becomes on the loan, the faster the rate at which the fees escalate. This is what created the housing bubble and associated economic disaster.

    The newest financial service taking this tack is student loans. As we park more excess labor in higher ed institutions, more student loans are sought by those who've been told that they have to go to college to get a good job (of any kind).

    I know of a person who started out with only $28k in student loans at the end of their degree path. Soon had that paid down to $19K. Then became disabled and had so many problems with jumping through the hoops the lender set to maintain lower payments that the $19k grew to $70k in just 5 years, all from capitalized interest and fees. He knows he will not live long enough to ever pay it off. The lender, of course, is able to write this off as bad debt to get it subsidized by other taxpayers.

    Please tell me how this makes sense for our economy.
  • #102
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    @viniketa

    Well it doesn't, what you have described is top down, If we don't reverse it to a bottom up, it's a recipe for disaster.. think of it as the Arab Spring on steroids.

    Marx would say that as soon as Capitalism has reached into every corner of the world, we will have the true communist revolution. Christians have the theory that as soon as everyone on earth, at the same time, has heard the good news, the second coming is imminent, it came first, Marx borrowed it and applied it to the economy.. Same deal, one is supernatural the other is natural.

    I say we will just end up with strong men dictatorships everywhere.
  • #106
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    @LEC Yes, it needs to be reversed, soon. But we will probably continue in the current vein until we're reduced to a type of neo-feudalism wherein there is no circulation of elites, merely elites shuffling capital back and forth between each other while pretending that inflation is the same thing as economic growth.
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  • #16
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    It was the Politicians that took all the money out of mental healthcare and insane Asylums and tossed the nuts (and soon to be nuts) on the streets. They said it would be good for them, mainstreaming is what they called this magnanimous gesture for their benefit.

    With PTSD on a hockey stick curve from the last two wars in the sand, and the new South Korea we are building in Afcrackastan (Don't even bring up Syria) the young men coming home often need help even with good family support.

    The Police have been complaining since that moment and citing the amount of contact time they have with this element. Let's not allow it to grow just for votes.
  • #54
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    Indeed politicians took money out of mental healthcare and nuthouses. One of the first and best examples of this was in California, 1967, when the governor...I forget his name...expelled thousands of headcases from the asylums and onto the street. Even had the gall to claim it was for their civil rights. Cost a lot more in cops, courts and jails in the long run, the idiot.
  • #66
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    @RoyFloyd
    That wonderful governor you can't remember was Ronald Reagan.........the POTUS over an Administration that holds the unbreakable world record for most Presidential appointees indicted (238), and the most convicted (126). Also, the President that should have been impeached for illegal arms dealing in the Iran-Contra atrocity, as well the President personally responsible for the millions of human beings who subsequently died under the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia/Laos. Oh, and let's not forget Reagan propping up South Africa's Apartheid Government and prolonging both Nelson Mandela's imprisonment as well as adding 5 unnecessary years to the continuance of Apartheid Government in South Africa. Yes, 5 years after telling us all Apartheid was "good for South Africa"...Reagan finally folded under American public pressure and reversed his position when it was apparent America was the last Westernized nation who supported racism. Oh...and perhaps the most damaging Reagan did was starting the 35-year demise of America itself...through his laughable and completely fraudulent economic "theory" called "trickle-down" economics..........now loving referred to as "Reaganomics"....... .just another failed "supply-side" economic failure that has never worked anytime in history. Y'know, Ronald Reagan: the Rights's acknowledged GOD of the Republican Party. I remember our local Agnew State Mental Hospital in MIlpitas CA releasing all of it's patients right onto the streets of Santa Clara and Milpitas CA back when you described, Roy.......the beginning of the end for mental health treatmeny in America, and as always when it is something despicable, stupid, and irrational, just another Republican "thang".
  • #13
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    We can sent billions of dollars to OTHER countries and yet not take care of our own country . That is what really pisses me off. So many HERE that are struggling ,homeless etc but we try to brush them under the rug. How about looking like a hero HERE in the US instead of trying to look like a big ass bird to others !!!!!GRRRR
  • #59
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    The Calvinists are often called heartless because they are often at odds with foreign aid. It is their contention that to give bread to a stranger while your own family goes hungry is a sin. What else can you call it, facetious, hypocritical, downright wrong?
  • #67
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    The government sends "economical aid" even to countries that we aren't "friends" with..Doesn't make much sense to me...$23 BILLION for humanitarian assistance and international development..AS well as another $14 BILLION For foreign military assistance (now that includes weapons for foreign military and training foreign military...(I would provide links and source for this info but i am not sure how)That is ALOT of money ..think of what could be accomplished in our OWN country and how much could be done to help people living here..I think humanitarian efforts here should be addressed before we give it away .. For one we wouldn't be $300+ BILLION in debt if we weren't giving it away ......I just can't believe the shit our government does ...smh
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  • #23
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    Leaving our own species out to rot is barbaric, putting them in prison for not having a home is too. I'd like to think we as a human race would embrace civilization and show compassion for all who share this atmosphere with us.
  • #86
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    @thismonkey

    That's so cute..you really think we humans are civilized...And compassionate too?

    The last twelve years or so says we aren't.
  • #27
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    Private charities shouldn't be being given citations for feeding hungry people first of all. These ridiculous, inhumane laws are popping up all over the place!

    Ideally, private charities should be given discounts on purchasing, or plain just given for free, the 1000's of vacant homes left to rot by shoddy banking practices over the past decade. If you saw the condition of some of these homes after the scrap metal thieves and squatters are done with them... Better given to someone to live in and maintain than let them cave in on themselves. Eyesores bring down the property values of all the other homes around them!

    Besides the foreclosures, what about neglected vacant land owned by cities? I've seen several articles about building "tumbleweed" tiny homes from scrap materials for under $5k each. A huge city bringing in thousands of dollars daily can't afford to let go of a piece of disheveled land (which is a haven for rodent and insect pests BTW...) so that charities and volunteers can fix it up? Perhaps make it into a small community with a park/community garden in the center where residents can help for a share of the produce?

    The gov't would rather make money off arresting/jailing these folks in for profit jails than offer them a hand-up (and the mental health treatment they need, most likely) that could eventually produce a tax paying, contributing citizen of society. Shameful...
  • #72
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    The govt doesn't make money off of arresting/jailing people. Private corporations do at the taxpayer's expense. Makes you wonder how a private corporation can do it cheaper and make profit off it.
  • #88
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    @AceLuby

    Cheap food and not much of..very little, if any heat in the winter and ditto air conditioning in the summer.
  • #81
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    The government does nothing cost effectively.

    Our government effectively "pays" people to be poor.

    Once you come to terms with that - then the policies for the homeless make sense.
  • #65
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    its hard to decide when you know some of those folks are there not by choice,thought there are plenty who are on the streets do to wanting to be.

    some you can help others you cannot.

    the numbers are growing do to lack of jobs. thing is ourgov and the libs for the most part seems to be set on taking from here and helping others across the globe while our own are on the street. all need to think local first above all others.
  • #73
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    Shouldn't the free market be creating jobs? That's what you've been saying and we've waited 6 years for it to happen. What's the deal?
  • #74
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    @AceLuby kind of hard to have a free market when gov is rewarding hiring other than citizens. my take is citizens should be first in all things when they are in "their own" country.

    whats the deal with those who are so much against citizens and hooked on cheap labor that gov lets them import poverty? if the employer does not cover all the costs of their cheap labor that puts the rest of the burden on the rest of us.
  • #90
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    @tomincali

    Your being bamboozled with the immigration lie.. the real problem is not paying a living wage for those willing to work..when they start spending for a few luxury items like new clothes at Wal-Mart instead of second hand at goodwill will the economy start to grow.
  • #103
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    @LEC ok take illegals and legal imports out of the deal and who then has the power to barter wages?

    look around our kids cannot even get fast food jobs or any summer jobs for that matter.

    i know full well how things went when employers could not just get visa workers and how it was when a simple phone call would have border patrol swarming and illegal aliens running.

    you want wages to go up you thin the worker pool. all know even in produce when there is a shortage prices or wages go up.

    have you ever had a boss threaten you to drop to min wage or leave and even say he can replace the whole crew with visa workers who will and then he does it?

    department of labor has even cut way back on that sort of fraud letting it run wide open.

    when employers only have citizens to pisk from things change.

    right now we have college grads who cannot find work in the field of study yet someone on the other side of the earth can,and sometimes they know nothing about the job even or even school for it.

    when Americans start putting Americans first above all others America gets better for Americans as it should be.
  • #104
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    @tomincali

    Your being bamboozled with the immigration lie.. the real problem is not paying a living wage for those willing to work..when they start spending for a few luxury items like new clothes at Wal-Mart instead of second hand at goodwill will the economy start to grow.
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  • #112
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    @Keyjo

    LOL.. possibly.. what qualifications do you have? And you must be able to die for your faith..still want to sign on?
  • #2
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    Should more resources funding enforcement of anti-vagrancy laws go to housing and homeless services?

    YES
    But here is the problem.
    Some of these folks have a limited mental capacity, and they aren't excepting the help that is available out there.
    I see it here in Phoenix all the time.
    They prefer to beg for cash at stores and gas stations, So they can purchase drugs and cigarettes.
  • #6
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    Many of them are trapped in a cycle that needs to be broken.....but some have become so used to the cycle that they don't know it can be broken.....some just don't want it broken.....

    If you remember in the Bible, Jesus asked one person He healed: Jesus asked the man, "What do you want me to do for you?" The blind man answered, "Teacher, I want to see again." Jesus said, "Go. You are healed because you believed." Then the man was able to see again. He followed Jesus on the road.(ERV)

    This should be all our prayer:

    O Father, help me to patiently wait and look for ways to help and serve others in your name. Give me the wisdom to do what they need, the patience to listen to them as they express that need, and the tenderness to invite them to let me share their burden. In Jesus' name I ask for this help. Amen.
  • #18
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    I have seen that too, and wonder if a little help at the right time would have prevented it. I hate seeing Vets on the street.
  • #25
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    And we have the choice to be civilized and help our own species... for a lesser cost, or be barbarians and leave them to rot and/or imprison them... at a greater cost.
  • #39
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    @Knightkore Like welfare and modern day slavery?The democrats do not want to help these people but continue to enslave in order to get their votes.
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  • #96
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    So the master plan is to include support for those people who prefer not to get off their asses and work? I guess they could replace a lot of the people working for government so that would be an even better solution. there are a lot of jobs that people with minimal education can fill.
  • #82
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    They're still out panhandling and stealing and what ever else they do, they would just destroy anything they get for free
  • #42
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    Now here is one place I can at least partially agree with the Liberals. When I did Social Work one of the 1st things I noticed was the waste in human potential in the homeless. The article added up the cost of incarcerating them and the end result is a person, released from jail, who is still homeless. Nothing of value was accomplished by making them a guest of the City.

    I'm not 100% sure that they can even get either TANF or SSI because they don't have a fixed address for obvious reasons. They couldn't when I did Social Work. Maybe that has changed. I don't know.

    I will say, however, that before simply throwing money at the problem we need to find out what causes homelessness in the 1st place. Contrary to public opinion most of them are NOT veterans. A lot of them would be rejects for military service for a whole lot of reasons. Many of them will never be able to be put pack in the labor force again for a lot of reasons. Some of them are just plain unlucky, and some are deeply involved with alcohol and drugs.

    I think, however, that it would be cost effective to look into the problem.
  • #91
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    @grammler

    I think you can now get SNAP even homeless and they allow the ones that have no place to cook to eat at a few select restaurants.
  • #33
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    Homeless has been on a steep rise for youth under the age of 23, for the past year and a half. It's one thing to be an adult whos choices or bad luck has caused them into that life. It's a completely different situation for kids that have no support or useless parents that have no place to turn. I would rather support kids that still have a chance to do something with their lives and contribute to society than an adult too far gone.
  • #41
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    We have something called the YES House here, Youth Emergency Services. Many of the youth that show up there say they were kicked out of the house by their parents. Too many families get angry at their kids and just open the door and say go.
  • #26
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    Have you ever seen what the housing for welfare folks looks like after just a few months. I wish it wasn't so but the homeless with many problems addictions, mental health and other absolutely destroy housing because they don't care.
  • #34
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    This. I want to help people, as most empathic people do. I don't think that everyone will destroy housing, but enough do to make it a problem for the rest of the group. I think any kind of housing needs to have some kind of cost share attached to it, either monetary (not a lot, but enough to create a sense of ownership and value to the house), or in kind (doing community service, etc). People need to have some skin in the game, or it is just another freebie to be squandered and taken advantage of.
  • #15
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    Maybe.
    The problem is that taking raw data like this and trying to apply it to people doesn't really transfer very good. Many homeless would benefit from this type program but may would not want it and would not participate in it. It all sounds nice but in practice it may be a very different thing.
    The other question would be what type housing are we talking about?
  • #123
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    Isn't it extremely TELLING that in order to bring HUMANITY into our society now we have to have the PRICE attached???

    MORAL PRINCIPAL and CARING just isn't enough anymore???

    And what percentage of homeless are VETERANS??? Do you know???
    25% of the homeless of the AMAZING NATION ARE OUR VETERANS!!!

    That number is 'outrageous' and cannot stand the test of a good country with a 'good' population of people!

    I am a conservative ....most of you know that. And ususally that is linked to those who don't care about the poor and ABHOR spending for help for much of anything.
    Isn't the stereotype of what WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BELIEVE IN ridiculous??? Why do we have to believe in a PLATFORM of someone else s ideas to belong to one of TWO PARTIES we have in this nation NO MATTER WHAT???
    Well I DO NOT FIT IN A BOX...no one will ever PUT ME IN ONE....and WE ARE ALL AMERICAN'S FIRST!!!
    There is enough money to help the homeless and the veterans and anyone else most especially children who are in NEED.
    American's come FIRST.

    STOP paying for 'the alliance' of other countries!!! STOP giving bonus's to BAD CEO'S who assist in the MURDER of our veterans!!!!
    STOP sending Michelle on 'vacation' every month! STOP, STOP and STOP to help our people!

    With whatever it TAKES to make them 'whole' and HUMAN.
    And believe me THAT IS NOT OBAMACARE EITHER!!!

    So to end this RANT let me say this last thing: QUIT USING THE POOR AND HOMELESS AS AN EXCUSE TO TAKE OUR COUNTRY DOWN!!!
    OBAMA CARE WILL MAKE MORE HOMELESS PEOPLE HOMELESS AND will end many jobs for people who need to work more than 29 hours per week.

    WE CAN BE AMERICAN, REPUBLICAN, AND DEMOCRAT and still help the POOR and HOMELESS and that will just make us MORE HUMAN and BETTER AMERICAN'S!!!
  • #121
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    As everything else there is enough funding short of buying everyone a rent free home. We have so many programs and thrown more money at poverty and homeless then ever. The problem with Gov is that they throw money at a problem then walk away. We don't need more gov we need more mother Teresas, but somehow some jerk will sue based on separation of religion..\
    So in the end everyone is screwed.
  • #115
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    Fancy figure finagling. This is about getting taxpayer money for private organizations.

    1) The police are already being paid that amount and to spend another $10,000 would only increase the total.
    2) The cost of "emergency-room visits and hospitalization for medical and psychiatric issues" would also not change if another $10,000 was dumped into the mix. They are now receiving treatment as necessary.

    I spent three years in Tampa working with the "homeless". Most, not all, were there by choice. They would find day labor, get paid, then spend the money on the bare essentials and alcohol, then be broke the next morning. I became disillusioned and left. I thought I was helping solve a problem, when all I saw was a desire to be "free and unencumbered".

    The ones we should, and do, focus on are families who find themselves in that situation. The Salvation Army (among others) has a terrific program for them. Housing, daycare for the children, job training and referral. Many churches have food banks and dinners. These folks know just where to go on what night to get what dinner.

    I realize that "showing you care" is the ultimate in liberal philosophy, but the statistics show that while they are the first ones to say, "We should do something", what they mean is, "The government should do something" and they don't put their money where their mouth is. Make the 1% pay for it.

    If more bleeding hearts would open their wallets instead of just their mouths, the existing services could thrive and expand to help the truly needy.
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