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  • #322
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    @dances-weebles
    Or you can get a job like everyone else and pay for your own expenditures and obligations, or at the very least provide me with your SSN so I can list you as a dependent on my taxes.
  • #1
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    There's no question we could make undergraduate degrees cost-free. But considering the depressingly large fraction of freshmen who need remedial classes to make up for what they should already know it might be better to upgrade high schools first.
  • #19
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    I think this is a pipe dream redirecting 2500 or 8500 a year. that will only cover a small fraction of the cost. where is this guy getting his numbers. you can count on 20K+ for many colleges and even more for the ivy league type of schools so 8500 a year isn't going to do much more than make a dent.
    I agree with you on the remedial courses... when you have people in math 98 etc.. you know they definitely missed something.
  • #34
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    Remedial classes are a waste of time and money. All they do is make students spend unnecessary money, including on ridiculously expensive books. How many will need Algebra or the other assorted math skills taught in remedial college courses? Answer: a fraction of 1%. In an age when software, such as Microsoft Excel, will calculate automatically, it's ridiculous to go beyond high school math classes by forcing students to repeat what they forgot, didn't learn, will not use during their careers, and don't need in order to complete college courses. Even English remedial courses are generally a waste of time.

    Also, I for one, am not interested in throwing more money at education. We have already sacrificed a lot to try to give schools the funds needed to make sure resources and teachers are available to provide top notch education.

    What have we learned by throwing billions at education?

    Answer: There comes a point where money is not the answer. To believe that more money means better schools and education is pipe dream that has been proven wrong. Money isn't the answer for everything. We need education reform, such as charter schools and an end to tenure, so that bad teachers can be fired. These two will go a long way to positively reform the education system by making it clear that public schools do not have a monopoly on education (particularly when charter schools are a viable alternative that provide overall better education) and bad teachers aren't wanted.
  • #90
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    @DARSB Starbucks is a private business who are free to do with their profits as they wish. Our tax money on the other hand not so much. If kids want a free education they need to earn it because there is no such thing as free.
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  • #50
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    @Beanomac911 "Higher education is a privilege, not a right"

    BS.

    In the right neighborhood breathing is a privilege and not a right is a truer statement.
  • #52
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    @Tolpuddle while I agree breathing is a privilege shared by all, going to college isn't. It's called higher learning for a reason and for that higher education you should have to pay out the nose for it.

    Or get grants and scholarships.
  • #53
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    @Tolpuddle let me guess, you're one of those @everyone is winner and gets a trophy for just showing up" types aren't you?
  • #54
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    Yeah. Becasue who better to run our country in 30 years than a bunch of todays trust fund kids. Nothing says American Dream quite like Daddy's checkbook!
  • #56
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    @Beanomac911 Have you ever seen tuition costs versus what majority of grants award? I believe the pell grant is the same as it was in the 60's.$8,000… only back then it covered most if not all of your tuition. Some of the smartest kids in the USA get accepted into major universities every year. Most have to decline, because they can't afford the tuition, or they fear crippling debt for the rest of their lives. America used to be the best country in the world as far as education, funny how at the same time we were the most innovative, and productive, and they all dwindleled together. Rampant greed is making us stupid, and is making us China's little piece of property.
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  • #18
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    The real key to getting a good paying jobs is being a go-getter. Trade skills and knowledge to a certain extent, yes. But when you're at work, work! No professor can teach that.
  • #36
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    You can be the worlds hardest worker, but if you aren't educated, you aren't going to get anywhere. Well, maybe from fries to the grill.
  • #39
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    @boombatic likewise, you can know all there is to about a MaxxForce 13 Diesel Engine, but if you can't do an EGR swap in the standard repair time, you'll never reach your earning potential.
  • #147
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    @boombatic Actually, it's a balance of both. You can have a great education, but be a worthless slug...or you may not have the piece of paper, but you have years of experience which turned into practical job related knowledge.

    There are still a few companies out there that value experience over a degree and will take an older, proven worker over a green behind the gills college grad.
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  • #7
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    Remember the GI bill? It helped create the American economic juggernaut after WWII. In the '60s, I attended a state college in NY where the tuition was free for in state residents. Many successful Americans today can trace the beginning of that success to a free college tuition.
  • #10
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    It wasn't a "free" education. It was a benefit that you got for sacrificing years of your life serving the country.
  • #16
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    @Ets101592 I would prefer that you not use semantics to prove your patriotism. It's just annoying and gratuitous.
  • #20
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    @PauldenZangpo I would remind you that more poor people sacrifice like you did than those who are wealthy, if you believe the statistics of those are currently serving in the military.

    In my estimation, the biggest problem that's ripping America apart is that Americans act more like enemies to each other than a single people with a love of country. Such an attitude does little to engender a sense of belonging and a desire to be patriotic because there is little to love and no one to fight and die for.
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  • #28
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    Anything worth having is worth working hard for.

    This scares me for two reasons.

    1) College is not for everyone. There are many other forms of secondary training that makes more sence for many Americans. If these schools are included.....

    2) There has to be a form of accountability. If you go and drop out?

    I love the idea but in practical terms it seems flawed.

    Lets look at systems that are providing free/help for tuitions. The military use to offer great programs...they still mightm

    California offers free schooling but their tax brackets are insane.
  • #108
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    If college is going to be universally required in order to get a job with a living wage, then it becomes more efficient to treat college as an extension of the public school system.

    Instead of school lasting 12 years, it would last 14 or 16 years.

    This all presupposes that the public schools are rehabilitated from the harm done by the privatization and monetarization of education movements.
  • #212
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    .
    You are making the mistake of equating the length of time in school with the quality of the education a student receives. Your grandmothers 8th grade education of 1940-50, assuming she was able to spend at least 8 years in grammar school was at least equal to a high school education today. Your fathers high school education equaled or exceeded what the college graduates of today grant BA's for. quantity and quality of education are not equal.
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  • #279
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    @dances-weebles .
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    um .... YES emphatically yes. Education has not progress since LBJ in the 60's decided he was gonna incorporate it into his great society and education has stagnated ever since. It has absorbed enormous quantities of taxes but has made little or no advances in the quality of education. science has advanced and made many new discoveries but education has not. Due in great part to tenure and retention of incompetent teachers.
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  • #283
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    @Cincinnatus

    You would not be under attack if you were making even minimal progress. More money has been poured into education EVERY year since 1950 that I know of and education has not progress only regressed and gobbled up more of the city state and federal budgets. take a look at what the Kansas city Mo school district had to do in the 1990s under federal court order and then report back the results of unlimited funding. Unlimited that means anything they asked for they got and they still failed to educate the students.
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  • #41
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    heck no. it takes away the value of being an adult and earning your way instead of getting handouts. i am sure those who want handouts or other socialist who think all things should be paid for by others will like it .

    funny thing those folks never want to step up and pay it all themselves they all want others to do the paying while they do the taking. must be a lib mental illness who want others top pay for them.
  • #51
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    @tomincali "heck no"

    Indeed. To keep the conservatives happy let's put everything back exactly like Bush left it. We after all were doing so well. Let's not change a thing when we go back to that moment, just continue letting everything get worse and worse and worse.
  • #87
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    Well said! If you think it should be free, then you be philanthropic and pay for it yourself; don't force the rest of us to pay for it at gunpoint - that's false philanthropy no better than outright theft.
  • #88
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    @Tolpuddle look around all things have gotten worst under this administration ,it will take a strong conserve to fix it.

    i know some want all things to be free,thing about that when the money runs out what will happen? maybe the gov should also assign jobs for life to everyone and we all make the same pay
  • #160
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    @tomincali - look around all things have gotten worst under this administration -

    Oh agreed it has gotten worse under this administration, but you're for whatever reason ignoring a portion of the variables going on in this administration.

    1. record filibusters
    2. no matter what is proposed by the left gets a wall thrown up in front of it.
    3. the right only proposes what will harm the middle class and poor yet will benefit the wealthy.
    4. the right has kept coming up with one conspiracy theory after another simply to keep fear alive and the focus off what's important.

    I'm not making this up. It's right there in plain view, all anyone has to do is look.

    The right wants to cut spending and so does the left. the problem is, the right wants to cut the spending that keeps the poor alive yet offer nothing up to provide an avenue that will help the poor stay alive.

    The left wants to cut corporate welfare which costs more than all the social programs combined but the right keeps blocking the attempts.

    For fact tax evasion with the wealthy costs more than 2 billion a year yet the right blocks everyone attempt to curb it.

    The poor by the way include the aged and disabled and for fact the right is causing a great deal of harm to this class of people that in the literal sense are at the mercy of everyone.

    There is no possible way for someone in the 90's+ to be a contributing member of society, unless of course they are a senator and only THINK they're contributing yet the right is as of this writing placing stumbling blocks in front of them to limit their benefits.

    There is no possible way someone so disabled that all they can do is lie in bed and drool can contribute to society yet the right, for a fact have these very people living in poverty already and want to cut more.

    Right now, as of this writing it is virtually impossible for some of the aged and disabled to contact their social security office in a reasonable amount of time in the event they need to.

    In fact, their social security office may very well be a vacant building because it's been shut down and relocated to somewhere that could very well be over an hours drive away rendering it totally inaccessible to some.

    I'm not making this up. It exists and if the right have their way will get worse.

    Social security btw isn't in trouble and never has been. It currently has a two trillion surplus that is growing, yet the right wants more cuts and in fact wants it gone completely.

    Saying these people need to be taken care of, or, those aren't the people we're talking about that nee cutting off doesn't cut it because yeah, you are talking about cutting these people off and for fact the right is doing it.

    When cuts are made to SS or food stamps, you're cutting off the aged and disabled as well.

    When the right blocks bills that can create jobs, they're hurting you too.

    When the right demands deregulation, that is a return to what allowed Wall street and Detroit to collapse and we had to bail them out.

    The right is lying to all of us and for whatever reason those who support them haven't checked out enough facts to comprehend they're being lied to.

    I've been 100% disabled since '03. I know for FACT what the right has done to cause me harm since then and I know for FACT what the left has done to try and help and what the right has done to put up a stumbling block.

    For FACT I move further and further into the poverty area due to cuts and have every year since '03.

    For fact in the eyes of the right in office if you aren't contributing to society you're dead weight and just need to hurry up and die.
  • #189
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    @Tolpuddle PLEASE, let's do! Unemployment was down, property values were increasing, gas was cheap, food was affordable, people had spending money, wages were rising...

    The exact opposite of the last 6 years.
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  • #8
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    I can agree with expanding programs that broaden the opportunity for a larger number of people as long as it doesn't lower academic standards. Also, I think more money should be funneled towards getting degrees that are in higher demand. There are only so many jobs out there that require a marketing or psychology degree.
  • #173
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    BUT! it should also be based on the student showing ability to enter into and remain in school by maintaining a high grade average. WAY too many students leave college/university with a barely passing grade. No free education or diploma for anyone that drops below a 3.0 grade average. If students did not have to work outside jobs in order to afford college they should have no problem maintaining that level of grades. And if their parents are paying their way and they drop below a 3.0 (because they know they can still get a diploma with a 2.0 or are not serious about it) then they still don't get the diploma.
  • #164
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    We could shift money and scholarships from athletic to academic and College would become affordable enough to graduate without a mountain of debt. It should be designed for the those interested enough to have studied for entry. The library is still free, and so is study.
  • #141
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    As long as free means they pay it back out of their paychecks. Must be tough getting a degree and then competing with people from other country's like India and China for jobs. Free trade really doesn't work when competing against country's with cheaper labor. NAFTA was a job killer for the USA.
  • #276
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    um... no. nafta was meant to kill jobs in south and central america by creating markets for north american products. it's a fact that u.s. companies had been shifting their manufacturing operations to other countries for years before nafta was even thought of.
  • #312
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    @dances-weebles Well, I traveled the country as a truck driver and at least several times a month , someone would tell me of a whole company moving to China or Mexico. This went on for years!The idea that the USA can compete against countries with cheap labor and few regulations. It's common sense to know that we can't. I saw this from about 1994 until i stopped driving a while back.
    There are only so many job's and people for these so called high tech job's. We have plenty of high school level educated people who need jobs. Years back i wondered about the lack of long term thinking about job's for Americans.
  • #313
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    @ron17571 that's the problem... nobody wants to hire anyone who stopped after high school any more. they want people, even for entry level positions, and as cashiers who have shown enough gumption to get some education, rather than giving up half way through.
  • #315
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    Give me a break. So a college degree is needed to run a cash register? Wash car's or stock shelves? That's the kind of job's that are out there.
  • #116
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    What we should do is make testing out and graduating free for those who are up to that task.

    If someone self-educates, such as by repeated trips to the library and perhaps experimenting at home with a laboratory for certain degrees and then acquires all the necessary skills and knowledge and can prove it in a test then they should get the credentials for free.

    But college provides more than just credentials, it focuses the mind so that people who otherwise wouldn't be doing so get the skills and knowledge they need to deserve those credentials.
  • #9
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    So how would that work? I went to a community college that cost about $2,000 a year for my first 2 years while my sister when to an art school with a $15,000 a year tuition.
  • #260
    Authors of "Millennial Majority"
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    you would get $2500 per year to pay for tuition and a community college would have to accept that amount and not send a tuition bill to you or your parents. But the art school, which I assume is private, could take your $2500 scholarship but you would still have to make up the difference.
  • #262
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    @Millennials $2500 is hardly a free tuition even at a CC. You need about $6,000 for 24 credits a year at a low priced CC.
  • #2
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    If everyone had a college degree...there would just be more people flipping hamburgers...who had college degrees...everyone should be trained to handle,,., the new technological age....but colleges are not vocational schools...nor should they be
  • #115
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    This is a great solution to our student debt issue, the government already spends enough money on grants/loans to make public colleges completely free without raising any taxes. The only potential downside is that they'd have to remove aid from high-end private colleges to make public school free, but as a person whose experienced both private and public universities, this wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. I found out that the "quality" of teachers don't depend on the school, but on the teacher themself so the only actual difference between private and public schools is that private schools just have a fancy ambiance about them. Let the rich kids have that, but as for the rest of us who simply want an education to better ourselves (which is 73% of America) this would be a great option.
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