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  • #5
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    Wow, the government sucks. Legislating for masses of people is so hard. Reading through different political articles definitely shows me that. It's just such a hard job to do, I guess. When you want to help out one group, it has unintended consequences for another. I'm not sure how I even feel about all of the different parts of this conversation, but I'm just struck by how murky and complicated this is. What to do, what to do.
  • #12
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    It ain't easy... The first step is identifying bias and liars.

    Every news source out there has a bias whether they admit it or not. The ones that deny it are liars. At least the ones that admit it are honest about it.

    All TV news except FOXNews is biased to the Left. MSNBC is the only one that's honest about it. The rest them toe the "objective" line just enough to be believable in their claims of objectivity to people who don't pay enough attention.

    FOXNews and Rupert Murdoch tries to play the TV news game and claim objectivity like CNN. That makes FOXNews and Rupert Murdoch untrustworthy too. The personalities on FOX don't hide their bias though. Agree or disagree with Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, Megyn Kelly or Shep Smith but they don't deny their bias. CNN's anchors do.

    Also identify liars by what they say about topics you DO understand. If they are telling you things that you know are lies based on your thoroughly informed opinion then it's wise to suspect they are lying to you about things you don't have a firm grasp of. A big part of that is knowing the limits of your own knowledge.

    lol... Did I say it ain't easy?
  • #21
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    Starting with square one we ask ourselves, is it governments job to take care of everyone, or anyone? The answer being no makes the other decisions much easier.
  • Comment removed for Engagement Etiquette violation. Replies may also be deleted.
  • Comment removed for Engagement Etiquette violation. Replies may also be deleted.
  • #16
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    We'd be much better off with a simple national, non-profit health care network similar to that of most free world nations.
    Better yet, if the United State would actually become a free world nation.
  • #13
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    Given the scope of Obamacare and what I knew already, nothing in this article surprised me... except this:

    "You are an undocumented alien"

    "Individuals who qualify for religious exemptions, are incarcerated, or are undocumented aliens are not subject to the mini- mum coverage provision. 26 U.S.C.A. 5000A(d)."

    From the PPACA Bill (Obamacare)
    "(3) Individuals not lawfully present

    Such term shall not include an individual for any month if for the month the individual is not a citizen or national of the United States or an alien lawfully present in the United States."
    http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/500...

    There it is... The Supreme Court calls them "undocumented aliens"... Obamacare calls them "Individuals not lawfully present"

    So today has now lengthened my list of "Labels people use for people who have broken lawful border control laws of a sovereign nation by crossing a border in defiance of lawful border control laws of a sovereign nation."

    I'll have to post an update sometime soon.
  • #14
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    1) "Immigrant" or "Worker"- Open border people. The "Reconquista" crowd. OWS. Communists. Proud Socialists. Any or all.

    2) "Undocumented Workers"- Cruel people who value "labor below open market levels for citizens and legal residents" more than they value human beings. They want the border to stay broken and the cheap labor coming. Both sides are guilty.

    3) "Illegal Immigrants"- believe that people who broke the law when they crossed the border in violation of lawful border control laws of a sovereign nation is a symptom of loss of control of our sovereignty.

    4)"Illegal aliens"- xenophobes, racists, nationalists, and/or protectionists.

    5)"Undocumented alien"- A combination of the cruelty of the "undocumented worker" label and the "otherness" of "alien". I've already lost a lot of respect for Chief Justice Roberts today. I'd hate to think he chose that label with that intent in mind when he wrote it into his opinion on Obamacare. I hope not because that's the way I read it. Valuing cheap labor over the lives of "others".

    6)"Individuals not lawfully present"- If you'll notice in the extract from which this is pulled from the above comment... Obamacare and the Democrats who wrote it, sold it, and defended in court the term "alien" when referring to lawful non-citizen residents of the United States... But when it comes to the "unlawful non-citizen residents" they don't even name it directly. The title of the clause is the best clue. The explanation of what constitutes an "Individual not lawfully present" is not named in the clause... S/he is defined by saying what s/he is not.

    The "Nots" are
    1) Not a citizen
    2) Not an "alien lawfully present in the United States."

    So what's my take on "Individuals not lawfully present"?.... My head hurts.
  • #11
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    The shame is that it's not universal health care in the sense that it won't cover everybody. 23 million are uncovered. It would've been better if they had offered that 23 million free or subsidized insurance instead of just saying "don't worry, you're exempt" as if that solved the problem.
  • #10
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    Sorry, Attorney Bodine - you got the Constitution wrong with your last post ("commerce clause"? really?), and since the health care bill is longer and more complicated than the Constitution, I have to assume you probably don't understand it correctly either.
  • #9
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    Most don't even come close to understanding how devastating Obamacare is for taxpayers and the next generations who will work. All they see is THEIR immediate need. Some think it's just fine because now they're on Daddy's insurance for a few more years. Some think it's UNIVERSAL health care. Some think it's going to be more affordable (insurance companies have already raised rates and you can bet it's going to happen again and again). Our taxes will go up to pay for all those who are excluded from penalities. And we'll still pay for illegal aliens.
  • #8
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    They're not "helping" anyone. Those who can't afford insurance are still exempt...the sorry MF is just trying to buy votes before November.
  • #3
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    - You are not required to file a federal tax return.(47% paid no income tax last year)

    - Your health insurance premiums exceed 8 percent of your household income (you have more kids than you can afford)

    - Obtaining coverage would be a hardship for you, as determined by the US Department of Health and Human Services ( you're poor)

    - You for a religious exemptions (how many black preachers are there now? 1 on every cornor in the south)

    - You are incarcerated (criminal)

    - You are an undocumented alien (ILLEGAL alien)

    Basically the scumbags who were taking advantage of the system are still going to be allowed to take advantage of the system but you get f**ked on insurance and welfare now.
  • #22
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    Well it sure takes one "scumbag" to know a "scumbag"...And I volunteer you, based on all of the garbage that you have spewed out here...All you did was expose your prejudice an made no useful contribution to this conversation at all... No body is taking advantage of anything....And YOU ain't making that much of a contribution in the "system" anyway....just more right wing complaining and whining....
  • #2
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    It seems to make no difference to Congress, Obama, & now the Supreme Court, that as many as 69 percent of citizens in this country do not want Obama Care.. As it's been said, the Supreme Court has awakened a sleeping giant..!!!
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