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  • #11
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    In the long run, it is the coward's way out, this is true, BUT let's have an honest moment from the Politix staff. Shep didn't call Robin WIlliams a coward. If people actually listened to what Shep said. "... and yet something inside you is so horrible, or you're such a coward, or whatever the reason you decide you have to end it."

    He rattled off a list of reasons why someone would commit suicide. Although I don't know the point of bringing up the smoking pot with his aunt. Very poor attempt at changing the subject? I don't know. I don't watch his show. Was it a stupid time to bring it up though? Yes.

    I have suffered from crippling depression. I have wanted to commit suicide. I did think it was the coward's way out. I have fought myself to change what was causing the depression and it has worked, sure I do have moments when I am alone and those old thoughts do creep back inside for a short while, sometimes when I am drinking at a party. They're fleeting now.
  • #57
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    What a lot of folks don't understand is mental pain can be more unbearable than physical pain. It can permeate everything. The person just wants the pain to stop, to go away.
  • #62
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    I was watching that LIVE and knew when he said that in a list of reasons ... some retard would focus only on that one reason!

    Give an idiot enough rope and they'll hang themselves every time ... rotflmao =)
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  • #45
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    I resent any attempt to try to politicize Robin William's tragic suicide. Who cares who on what network says what? This is not politics, it's life and death.
    And when people say, "Suicide is the coward's way out," I consider this a layman's feeble attempt at discouraging something they don't understand. Is the POW who swallows the cyanide pill to avoid horrendous torture a coward? Is the terminally ill person who is suffering and no longer afforded a quality of life a coward.
    I appreciate @Joshacham's balanced and informed comments.
    I suffer from chronic depression, and some days I hope to find the courage to end it, but so far, I have been the coward. Sometimes I hope to recover the quality of life I once knew. But for those who do not understand depression, it's like living in a dark room with no windows or doors, no means of escape. Climbing out of bed each day, is like climbing a mile high cliff. Like Joshacham said, " I have fought myself to change what was causing the depression and it has worked,...."
    I too have done that for years, but it seems like even that is becoming more and more futile. Sometimes you can't escape those causes, at least that is what I am finding.
    I am happy to see a dialogue opening up, at least here on Politix. And if here, then hopefully throughout the nation. Hopefully, the dialogue continues and is not short lived.
    It is important for parents, family, friends to be able to open up, learn the signs and know what to do, not ignore them. It is important for the undeserved stigma of depression to end. It is not weakness, it is illness.
    One last note, Williams recently had heart surgery. People who have heart surgery, heart disease and similar are very susceptible to severe depression. If you have a loved one with health issues as such, be aware.
  • #55
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    Thank you for noting that heart surgery can give one or exasperate depression. I have seen it in many people including my father.

    And thank you for noting that it takes "courage" to end it. I can't imagine anyone making "it" an easy decision to die especially those of you like Robin Williams who do have so much to give to the world and to live for.

    May you and others who struggle with depression see brighter days and never find the courage to end it. Whenever you struggle remember, this too shall pass.
  • #126
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    Very well stated. Unless you suffer from depression yourself, or know someone who does, you have no idea what that person is going tnrough.
  • #185
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    @JustGuessing -Thank you for your kind thoughts. I was deeply saddened at the loss of someone so vibrant and wonderful who gave so much to the world. In many ways Robin and I are kindred spirits. I love to make people laugh and many times it's from something totally spontaneous. I still battle the dark thoughts and devising means for a rapid and relatively painless demise. In itself though the ingenuity of my "plans" dispel much of the pain. Perhaps by this reasoning Alice Cooper (aka Vincent Furnier) also suffers from extreme depression and anxiety and too could be a kindred spirit. I think also it may be important to point out that Abraham Lincoln (notably perhaps THE greatest U.S. President suffered from severe bouts of manic depression. I'm supposing many of the right-wingers reading this will dispute this, but perhaps to their dismay Lincoln's condition has been listed as historical fact. LOL!!
  • #191
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    Is the POW who swallows the cyanide pill to avoid horrendous torture a coward?
    It would be done to avoid divulging information to the enemy.
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  • #77
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    People set back and judge people all the time, especially news reporters. What people need to understand is depression is what kills you-not cowardice. depression makes everything seem hopeless with no end in sight. Imagine never having hope or faith in anything, and everything seems to get worse around you. That's depression, and some can handle it and some can't. It doesn't make you less of a man or woman, and even the strongest people eventually fall to it. Depression to me is worse than any alcohol or drug because it's with you 24 hours a day. Drugs and alcohol can be taken away out of reach. Depression is like the air you breath-it's always there. I feel Smith didn't intend to say Williams was a coward, but maybe someone who was thinking of doing the same thing might have thought "I am no coward, I'm going to beat this". I have had depression but never had to go to a doctor because I pulled myself out of it. My first divorce about killed me because I lived in a whiskey bottle for six months and one day decided to get myself together. I am one of the lucky ones. Others have not fared so well.
  • #105
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    It seemed like my brand n was hosting another personality that was trying to kill me. I let everyone know and got help. I expect being famous makes it harder to get real help.
  • #148
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    " My first divorce about killed me because I lived in a whiskey bottle for six months and one day decided to get myself together. I am one of the lucky ones. Others have not fared so well. "
    ----------
    GLAD you pulled yourself back together, American.

    My cousin went through a similar situation but he didn't fare as well. He did kill himself. He was poised to kill his wife to but he shot her in the leg while she huddled under the kitchen table.

    Divorce can be devastating and it takes not only a strong person to overcome the event but it takes the help of family and friends as well.

    Glad you were able to turn a corner.
  • #157
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    @cnw95 I wasn't mad at my wife-didn't want no harm. Just felt sorry for myself because I had failed. Up till then I had always considered myself a winner with a bright future in the army. Losing like that tore me a new one. I don't know what snapped me out of it, but I was clearly on the road to nowhere.
  • #161
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    @MadAmerican
    With my cousin, he had similar feelings such as you had. But he also harbored ill feelings towards his wife as well.

    There was some infidelity on his part and she had had enough. She took him back after a past similar occurrence. But this second time she was through with it.

    I was talking to him in the months leading up to his death and he was trying desperately to make amends and keep his family together but he had failed.

    That was five years ago. I still regret not being able to help him. Just wished I could have done more but I didn't know he was ready to take it to the level he did.

    He really hit rock bottom but i did not know just how low he had sank until it was too late.
  • #199
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    @MadAmerican

    You were in the Army with depression?

    I ask because if so how did you function?

    I'm involved in Vet affairs in Miami and I was surprised how high the suicide rate was for vets over 50 .

    I know many felt invisible like the VA nor any politicians cared .

    That and the EverGlades are the only 2 causes I stuck with in Miami, People and politicians here aren't worth "sht" but those causes I believe in.
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  • #19
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    It's not just calling Robin Williams a coward, it's calling all suicides cowardly. I'm sure it's easy for him to sit there and judge someone else's feelings and problems, but IMO it's sorry as hell to say that.
  • #410
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    @LoraM If it's "cowardly" or "cowards way out" it's still an insult to victims of depression. It is very hard for most to pull that trigger, or cut that arm, etc... It's not brave, but it's not cowardice either, for a lot it's just a kind of peace.
    Suicide doesn't solve your problems, it just stops them for you and brings more for your family and friends.
  • #4
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    Suicide is a national tradegy and should be treated as such, move beyond the blame and grief and let's come up with solutions, mental health needs more money.
  • #215
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    What do quote marks imply when you change someone's words? Can you still attribute the words to them? This is not what we were taught in school in the 50's.
  • #217
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    @SocialismSucks Taxpayers pay dearly for failed suicide attempts every day, in ER's and shrinks offices. I liked it much better when we had more God and less problems in the world. I'll bet we had fewer suicides during WWII than today.

    My Mother told me to mow Mrs. Loves lawn one day and I asked her why. She told me because she so. I later found out Mr. Love died in Korea and wouldn't be coming home. I want the loving Christian nation we were back.
  • #225
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    @SocialismSucks If suicide is a crime, then how much jail time does one get for suicide? Could one be tried for murdering themselves and get the death penalty?
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  • #14
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    I will give him the benefit of the doubt to assume he was trying to understand but failing miserably at it. It's typical of those who do not have a clue to say something so stupid. All the more reason we need to talk about depression and suicide more. It's not cowardice.
  • #119
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    Probably the former, or perhaps even that he has experience with suicide in his life and that this just opens up that wound for him again.
  • #166
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    You are correct. I escaped with my life but the scars will be there forever. Sad, so so sad. Who is the loser here? Everyone else!! I have been sick for years bc of this so I dare anyone to argue with me about courage or depression!! I've been both and I can tell you for me the one and only reason I live on this earth today is bc of the love of The Lord. This is not a political statement , religious statement, this is the truth!!!
  • #167
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    Well then, paint me as an asshole because I was there 13 years ago.
    January 5th, 2001 was my low point and a decision was made to turn my life around, quit self medicating and take charge of my depression instead of it controlling me.

    Hardest thing I've ever done, it took courage and it took faith in myself and my higher power.
    If that's an asshole, I'm guilty. I for sure could have taken a coward's way out and for the longest time I thought it was the only way to achieve peace.
    I'm truly happy today but happiness isn't automatic.
    I have to work hard at it because at times it's hard to motivate myself out of bed and into the shower. Afterwards comes the struggle to get out the door and do something, anything but procrastinate and/or feel sorry for myself "because life is so unfair."

    Boo Hoo...

    Substance abuse makes it damned hard to climb out of a depression rut.
    It's impossible to know the why of Williams suicide, Shepard Smith simply threw out the possibilities. Could've been Williams responded to voices in his head, if so he wasn't in control. Then again he could've said screw it, I'm checking out.
    Smith threw out several possibilities.

    Smith also mentioned Williams did so much for so many people. Anyway, I'm no fan of Fox News or Shepard Smith, I'm just saying Smith didn't call Williams a coward. He simply threw out the scenarios by which people choose to take their lives.
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  • #31
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    I am in favor of assisted suicide. I hope to go quietly in my sleep. But if I had a terminal illness I will not wait to suffer the deaths I have witnessed.
  • #408
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    I thin I would communicate with my family first so there was no questions left before I did it. No suicide until everyone thoroughly understands. That way no one would have any regrets in not being able to say something to their loved one.
  • #422
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    @LoraM About 30 years ago I was misdiagnosed and told to put my affairs in order. After a day of recovery I wrote a page outlining things for my wife. We talked everything out. This turned out to be very lucky.
    A few weeks later follow up tests cleared me.
    Two years later my wife was at Sloan-Kettering. The Dr. told me 5 years. I sold my businesses and retired.
    The Doctor was almost right. 5 years and 3 months!
  • #28
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    Being a coward has nothing to do with Robin Williams death! Drugs, alcohol and suicide go hand in hand with mental illness, such as bi- polar disorder and depression. Many people who suffer from these illnesses are mis- diagnosed and treated with the wrong medications. I myself suffer from bi- polar disorder or manic- depression which I think better describes the illness. I was treated for depression for years until I found the right doctor who correctly diagnosed my illness and probably saved my life. Mr Shepherds comments are ignorant and shows his lack of knowledge and understanding on this subject, but he's not alone, many other people feel the same way as he does. Manic- depression is an illness that must be lived with on a daily basis, including the taking of a large amount of medication that you can't forget about, and that means never! So if you have feelings of despair, helplessness, suicidal thoughts, alcohol and drug abuse, please talk to your doctor, don't hold anything back, tell your doctor exactly what your felling. You can get help, don't give up.
  • #131
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    I can't even find one to trust to get my blood pressure under control after four years of pill swapping, I take 5 different BP pills now. I found talking to a counselor helped more than any of the multitude of prescription crap I was told to take. I find it very hard to trust a doctor when I know more about my medicine and case than he does. Cookie cutter medicine does not work, everyone is different.
  • #26
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    It's just a stupid thing to say given the situation. There is no way to full understand the depth of his illness or the battle he fought over time. Could he have sacrificed himself because he felt that was what was best for the family? If so is the man who puts himself in a position of certain death to save his family, say from an oncoming vehicle, also a coward in this guys book?

    As I have said before, name calling is typically a sign that you have no idea what you are talking about, I think it applies here.
  • #8
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    The "cowards" in this are the people who knew him best, yet (apparently) did very little to help him......
    Chronic depression is a difficult disease to control, but, it starts with acknowledgement along with extensive family/friend support. And drugs often make it worse without close physician support and follow up.
  • #29
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    What have you seen or heard to justify that? It seems like he has had a support structure of family around him encouraging him to seek help his entire life. Unless you plan on putting them in a strait jacket and in a rubber room there is only so much you can do. He's been in therapy, rehab, all of the things that you do to combat these demons. Maybe I am wrong and you have insight beyond what can be read and watched on television, without that, your comment makes Shep's look kind and reasonable.
  • #78
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    @WoodyKC "What have you seen or heard to justify that?"
    HMMM......he committed suicide. That might have been obvious to most, apparently not to you.
    "there is only so much you can do. "
    2X HMMM......kinda what I said above.
    "look kind and reasonable"
    Who said "kind and reasonable" was in my post. Truth is. You just can't hear/see/feel it. You want the easy answer. There is NO easy answer.
    You failed to understand that!
  • #94
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    @stepped_in_it I think you did when you called those around him cowards. So the suicide is how you justify your statements, once again that means your position is that leaving him alone for more than 15 minutes was the act of a coward, sorry don't see it. After all that you say there is no easy answer, but they are still cowards, I guess I refuse to place that kind of judgement without more information. To judge like that just seems cold hearted and needlessly cruel.
  • #112
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    Very true. There surely were signs that he was suicidal and people who were blind to them and/or otherwise ignorant of them (maybe ignoring and/or denying them) for whatever reason. People do get worn out with dealing with depressed people, though only when you give up on us will we go to the extremes (e.g., suicide).
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  • #79
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    Suicide victims die at their own hands by the being that has tortured them their whole life.

    If one is tortured unceasingly throughout even the quiet moments and let's their guard down just once... the torturer will kill them.

    He self medicated... not the best way to treat mental illness, but the most common way our country's citizens use. It is a less a social stigma to use Heroin, Crack, Meth... than it is to be treated in a mental hospital.

    So one who let his guard down once and let the killer who had always tortured him inside... to kill him.

    Is that cowardice?
    Or is it inevitably the end of a life where one heroically fought for decades... only to eventually to lose?
  • #6
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    shows the depth of the issue when it comes to understanding and removing the stigma from mental health issues ...
  • #237
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    @MissMostly not necessarily true, my mother, to this day still says I had to have been messed up out of my mind when I shot myself in the chest years ago, but I was stoned cold sober, it was the demons in my body and mind that put me in a place that by killing myself was the only way to stop the pain and in my irrational state, I thought it would be best for my loved ones too, that they would be better off without my crazy ass around in their life's, however, after luckily surviving in a coma for two weeks and with help from mental health programs, the support of my family and most of all, my children, I am better and trying to enjoy what life I have left, I was lucky, many are not...
  • #269
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    @hankf68 I'm happy that you made it. Demons are a different animal. Not all that suffer from mental illness have demons. I don't know if you have read any of my posts here but w/o going into it again, when I was younger my guy took his life like Robin a Williams and was going to shoot me.we were in our 20s. He slipped off the chair, didn't make it :( I arrived home too late, but didn't die. I know what depression is from that day!! Like I said I'm not going into it again, but The Lord bailed me out that's all I can tell you, and bc of him I did not take my own life, and totally respect the life that he gives all of us.
  • #323
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    @Frosty45 look back the hell off!! I'm telling you right now. I don't know abt Mr. Williams but I know abt the mixture that my hbd. Took I saw him hrs b4 and you are not the authority here! Like I said back tge hell off
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  • #25
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    I listened to what Shep Smith said on the video above. I suggest you do too. He had a lot of praise for Williams, far more praise than criticism -- and he did not actually call him a coward that is very misleading.
  • #146
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    Of course it's misleading..... just the typical whining about Fox that is common among pseudo-journalists. It's dime a dozen reporting. Yawn.
  • #107
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    Smith is the most liberal news guy on Fox to the point that he should be on CNBC. The conservative crew, you know the ones you guys hate, were shocked and affected by William's death. They are still having what I think more than appropriate eulogies for the guy. So again what is the freekin point. Another silly story Mary,
  • #117
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    What does that matter? Ignorance can come from all sides. The friend who gave me a hard time is a conservative and an Orthodox Jew who doesn't even know (let alone hold) what Orthodox Judaism holds: "that the majority of suicides are to be considered as distressed as Saul and as having acted under compulsion when taking their own lives. As such, they are not responsible for their actions and are to be accorded the same courtesies and privileges granted the average Jew who has met a natural death." (See "Issues in Jewish Ethics: Suicide").
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  • #9
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    If MSNBC had said something like this about a deceased conservative entertainer, the hue and cry would be so loud, it would drown out all other news.
  • #132
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    In THIS context, no...you're wrong.

    Like I said to you elsewhere, I was ready to go into attack mode, but when I LISTENED to the whole segment, IN CONTEXT, I understood why he mentioned it.

    Come on Kate, you're better than this!
  • #238
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    @methinks - I stand by my comment, which is based directly upon my experiences with the right wingers who are regulars on this forum. Indirect and general off-the-cuff negative comments by liberal politicians and media pundits are pounced upon by conservatives here.

    Come on, methinks, YOU'RE better than this.
  • #250
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    @Denizen_Kate As I told you elsewhere, if anyone else had said these exact words, I'd still feel the same way.

    I CAN think objectively. I have a logical and analytical mindset. Math was always my forté.
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  • #224
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    Having lost 3 friends to suicide in recent years, I can understand an ignorant mind thinking it's cowardly, selfish, etc. However, having a better understanding of mental illness, which depression is, I find comments like this extremely ignorant and offensive. I have no right not to be offended, I understand that, but more needs to be done to educate people. Having a sound mind, it seems easy for a person to escape depression, and realize it can be temporary. A person that suffers depression, often sees no way out.
  • #320
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    I haven't been involved in any mental health traing for decade now, but it used to be that depression was classified into 2 groups, Situational & Clinical. Situational is what happens to all of us. Deaths, loss of jobs, divorce and things that just happen. A woman co-worker with my sister had always said she hoped she died before he did. She didn't. Her son dropped by one day the month after his fathers funeral & she was sitting up in her bed with a bottle of pills and an empty bottle of Bourbon beside her dead.

    Clinical depression is far harder to treat because the victim faces demons that make no sense to other people. Voices or fears of non existent terrors that dominate the persons life.
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