• #3
    I thought there is supposed to be this separation of church and state,so what the hell is the government doing interfering with a church,a bible study at that,bet if it was a mosque they wouldn,t make a pep,it,s garbage like this that makes the 2nd amendment so popular
  • #6
    Read the full article. He only built the accessory building after they told him he couldn't have 15 people study the Bible in his living room. *That* original ruling seems like unconsititutional interference with freedom of religion to me. If he goes back to doing it in his living room then they should leave him alone.
  • #26
    Besides, Jesus specifically instructs his followers in the Bible that they should "render to Caeser what is Caeser's." Meaning: follow the laws of the land, pay your taxes, respect the authority.
  • #40
    Wish he'd had a good religion/constitutional lawyer represent him in that 15 people Bible study in his living room! That is absolutely the worst of this whole scenario. Well, that and a threat of jail time. Wish we could get word to him to contact:
  • #50
    Does it pass the smell test?
    If he is paying property taxes then it is his private property and he should be able to have a few friends over for a friendly night of prayer!

    If it is a church, then he shouldn't be paying any property taxes but must adhere to the public gathering laws.
  • #57
    This guy says it's a "game room". Do you blame him for playing word games with a government that is already doing it?
  • #5
    This is an obvious case of the government of Phoenix having a chip on their shoulder and using the force of law to punish someone who made them look bad. This is what government oppression looks like when government isn't supposed to be able to oppress.

    Get on government's radar and some powerful people don't like you? Zoning and tax laws are the first lines of attack. It's like the stories of the police officer who writes a stack of tickets for a motorist who embarrassed him.

    Give credit where credit is due. San Juan Capistrano in California had a similar occurrence...


    It took a national backlash against government overreach but it worked... Even the $300 fine was refunded.

    Here's hoping we see the same result from Phoenix.
  • #22
    what should be obvious is that there is way way way too much goverment. Watch for coin slots on your toilet stool in the near future
  • #55
    As of now, they are taxing our health, taxing everything we purchase, taxing our property, every year. It has nothing to do with religion, it is all about the money. Pretty soon, they will tax our mail, tax our air, tax our internet, tax how many pets and plants we have, tax the air that we breathe. The demo's need more money for their vacations, their plastic surgery, their maids and butlers, they aren't going to pay for it out of their own pockets, tax, tax, tax,
  • #72
    Yeah, Phoenix has a real chip on their shoulder and hates white, Christian males. How many of you clowns applaud Sheriff Arpaio when he locks up criminals in desert tents (as long as they are black or latino)? Which of you were offended when the good sheriff overstepped his bounds and went outside of his jurisdiction to investigate the president's birth certificate? How many were up in arms when the Supreme Court struck down the illegal alien law that was passed in Arizona? But the minute that the law is applied to a White, Christian male, Phoenix has a chip on their shoulder and overstepping government bounds.

    What would have happened if there was a fire in this non code building and 10 kids and elderly were killed? How many would be ready to lynch this guy for not thinking of the safety of others.
    Or better yet, what if this guy was holding muslim services in your neighborhood? How many would want the city to enforce these laws?
  • #73
    It was up to safety code for a non-public building. He never claimed it WAS a public building. Your entire argument is based on a false assumption from the beginning.
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  • #63
    Who are they to butt into freedom of religion? As far as I am concerned, church is really just a mind state. It's the time taken on Sunday to worship your diete, read the word and embrace it. I don't think it should be mixed up with "zoning" and all that jazz. That's the separation of church and state.
  • #23
    I would say that Salman needs to comply with code enforcement whole he appeals and sues the City of Phoenix. I can't understand why they were allowed to stop him from having people into his house. Leaving that aside I'm surprised the ACLU hasn't already stepped in. They have defended Christians before. With that said, I understand why some believe the City of Phoenix is picking on the one group of people its almost impossible to discriminate against - caucasian heterosexual Christian males. I don't know if Salman qualifies as caucasian but I think if he was anything other than Christian, the City would have thought twice.
  • #32
    I don't trust the ACLU one bit. It was born out of protest to the crackdown on union violence in the 20's and has stayed true to its communist founders' vision. A communist agenda masked as "civil rights"

    No mention of a spark that started the ACLU in 1920...
    I like this page. The ACLU's history page. It shows what the ACLU is proud of.

    Here it is.
    "In November 1919 and January 1920, in what notoriously became known as the “Palmer Raids"...."

    What were the Palmer Raids?

    Looks like it was a bigger, more vilent group of "anarchists" like our OWS crowd. No mention on the ACLU page of opposing nazism in the 40's. I'm not questioning Brown v. Board of Education. I think it was an imperfect solution to an intolerable situation. I don't question Thurgood Marshall's intention's or the people he represented. I do question the ACLU's intent with their involvement.

    The ACLU wiki page says they helped blacks from the start but the first mention on the ACLU's page is Brown v. board. In fact there is little evidence that the ACLU cared much about blacks the Civil Rights ball got rolling, they jumped on board. It was a change of tactic, not intent. They are mostly involved with unions and defending the fringes.

    Then when questioned about their liberal bias, they always bring up how they've defended nazis. They mention that on their history page too. My observation is that capital "C" Communists who are Jewish are Communists first. And Communism tolerates anti-semitism. Jews are useful as scapegoats. The stereotype is a perfect fit.

    I hesitate to call them self-loathing Jews. For most I imagine their "jewishness" is irrelevant. My guess is that the Salmon's aren't useful to the ACLU. That's why they aren't defending them.
  • #12
    Its on his property, they need to leave him alone.people in this country need to stop being push overs.if they can threaten you, you can threaten them.stand up for yourselves and each other, stop being scared.
  • #16
    thats all well and good,but i don,t see that family being able to stand off a Swat team,and that's ultimately what they would be facing
  • #37
    you know i guess i really do agree with you,reckon thats where militia's and second amendment kick in,it just seems so overwhelming at times.need to be a 3% i guess
  • #4
    what if it was a harry potter book club,would 40 chairs be to many,when i have my spotted owl barbecue with panda burgers would 40 chairs be too many.this is proof we have to seal the borders from the drug cartels
  • #2
    this is on top of all the P C issues going on - the white Christian has been under attack for decades - we should stand up for our religion as we try to reconcile with the government - if they continue then we should stand up for our beliefs
  • #46
    Really for decades? Tell me sir how many states will not let you hold public office if you are a christian? The answer is none...... There are 7 that will not allow atheist to hold public office. So ya you can stick that we are so oppressed crap up your ass... Also this has nothing to do with this mans faith. He was breaking building codes. He could have people coming there to talk about cars. He would still be breaking building codes.The only reason we are ever hearing about this. Is because the Christian right loves stuff like this. They can use it to show how they are so oppressed. When really this has nothing to do with faith or religion.
  • #54
    BS. White Christians are ALWYS proclaiming that they are under attack when in reality they are one of the safest most powerful groups on earth. Always playing the victim for attention.
  • #58
    Almost every time I see an atheist post in a forum it is an attack on christianity . Put simply there is a disconnect in this country on what principles are supposed to be taken to heart. Tolerance of anyone's faith or lack there of is supposed to be what is important. I see it come from all sides so please do not think that I am defending one aisle here. I have seen christians that lash out against those that are not of their faith as much as I see atheists lash out in kind. When are we just going to respect each others right to believe as we wish? Are the kids that gather during their free time in the school to pray infringing on anyone's freedoms? Are they forcing anyone to participate? Was this guy really circumventing a bunch of city ordinances? Likely it was as it says it was,..a group of people who hold different beliefs did not like what he was doing and wanted to shut him down. Jail time? Way excessive.
  • #77
    The "white christian"?----Gee I thought christians were christians I didn't know that that faith had divided itself by color...But back to the issue at hand....I think that if this guy wants to hold church services for 40 people, he probably does need to follow the appropriate codes for a crowd that size...But once again, here we go with a guy who wants to do something unusual in a residential setting...Hey screw the neighbors, "I want to hold church for 40 or more people in my back yard, and I don't care one hoot about my neighbors".....And building codes, by the way...are another way to say ..."the laws"...I thought christians believed in following the laws of their community...Or is this just one more selfish guy hell-bent on doing what ever the hell he wants to do....Much like the guy (in another story) who wants to keep his dead wife buried in his front yard...Unbelievable!!!
  • #79
    That's not why he's going to jail. He is going to jail for not having the building codes up. As a christian I would say that God told us in 1 Peter 2, "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

    14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

    15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

    16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

    17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king."
  • #78
    well telling anyone, they can't hold any kind religious meeting on their property. is a violation, of freedom of religion. and it is obvious they are, purposly targeting this person unjustly. losing our freedoms, piecemeal is still unacceptable. i can't even imagine, this even happening before 20 years ago. they are chipping away at our freedom, they hope slow enough to not notice.
  • #71
    It's a money issue. They, as in city officials, have redefined terms and code to meet their need for additional monies.
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  • #67
    The real question is "Is he causing harm to his neighbors?". We have zoning requirements for a reason. If he causes any inconveniences or harms his neighbors in any way, he should not be allowed. If on the other hand he is not harming his neighbors in any way, let him do his thing. If I was a neighbor and was inconvenienced because of his crowds, whether it is noise, lack of parking or any other problems that came up, I too would fight to stop these actions and I think most others would also. It is easy to say let him do his thing...when it causes no harm to you.
  • #66
    Well, it's a 2000 sq.ft. building with a cross erected in front and he's got 40 people attending his little swaray. I can see why the city considers it a church and why they are requiring it be up to code.
    However, as I said before, in doing so, the city must also grant him property tax exempt status.
  • #62
    It's not an attack on his faith, he's opened a building to the public which does not meet code. He'll still have to bring the building up to code after his 60-Day sentence if he still wants to conduct a public service. It just like YOU can't start feeding your neighbors everyday without running into of serving food to the public without a permit.
  • #64
    It passed all the building codes. The city wants to treat it as a church and force handicapped parking etc. He's calls it a "game room". He invites friends over and they like to talk about literature.

    Works for me.
  • #65
    If it's open to the public and doesn't have handicap access then it does not pass code. Just like I can't start feeding people out of my kitchen and pretend like it's still my private home.
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