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  • #21
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    What is dangerous and Americans should be terrified is when we lose control of our nation to those who pay no taxes. Taxation without representation, that is what just happened in our last election. The vast majority of tax payers voted for Romney, but Obama was elected by the huge welfare base that pays no taxes. The 20% far left Liberal vote meant nothing, they always vote for the Democrat. It was the very people that Obama added to the welfare roles with his failed policies that elected him. When a nation is run by those who have their hands out for charity, that nation is on the path to bankruptcy because they will only vote for the people who pander to them and do not care about the good of our nation.
  • #25
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    "Lose control of out nation to those who pay no taxes"??? Perhaps you're talking about General Electric and Boeing, to name a couple. They collect billions from Uncle Sugar, spend lots on lobbyists, purchase the favors of congress wholesale--- but pay nothing. Are those the welfare cheats and charity cases that cause your outrage?
  • #33
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    Is that right? 4.6 million Americans are on welfare. I bet 1/2 voted. So, what about the other 60,000,000 votes for Obama? Freeloaders? How about those non-tax paying seniors? Oh, they voted for Romney. I suppose they don't get a vote either.

    Know what you're talking about before you actually try to make a point.
  • #42
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    @RoyFloyd Can you see how lost and brainwashed you are? What do those companies that you mentioned do? They create jobs and a livelihood for millions of people. There is absolutely nothing more valuable to a people than a job to raise a family and I have all the respect in the world for those who take all the risk, and start businesses. Do you have a clue how much revenue those companies bring into Uncle Sam so that Uncle Sam can give it away to welfare people? Tell me, what do those millions of welfare folks do for our nation? Oh that's right, they take from it decade after decade after decade. Do welfare people ever give it back when they get on their feet? NO! You have got your priorities completely screwed up. But that's the Socialist Democrat mentality. hate the rich because Government wants to control the people. They want no one to have power but them.
  • #43
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    @grapesofwrath When I say those who pay no taxes, I'm not just talking about welfare people. Do you have a clue that 50% of Americans pay no Federal taxes? Get your facts straight before you rant.
  • #44
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    @commonsense51

    Actually, those two companies have 440,000 employees combined- worldwide. Millions? Are you in a making up stuff mood? I agree, they make jobs- but they should also pay taxes, dontcha think?
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  • #108
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    Secession is a worthwhile question for adults. Not because of our final answer, but because it returns us to the basic principle and source of power. From God to the citizen to the constitutionally limited federal government.
  • #3
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    hey i like the idea of only those who actually pay taxes to have a say on how they are spent. no one should be able to vote for something they have never put into.
  • #5
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    I'd like the idea of folks with opinions like that to move to another country but neither of us is going to get our wish.
  • #20
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    They don't want those that actually pay taxes to go anywhere, then who is gonna pay for all this free crap. I would love it if we could take the money and go our own way.
  • #49
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    @Thegrif Hey I'm happy with any people who don't want to be Americans to leave. Don't let the door hit ya in the a** on the way out. Of course I have little respect from the conservative types and figure that very few if any of them will really leave. It's just more BS from the crybabies on the right.
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  • #23
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    @Hireman - well, this recent "worthwhile question" is the latest.

    A couple of his quotes pertaining to race ........1 -> "If you have ever been robbed by a black teen-aged male, you know how unbelievably fleet-footed they can be."

    ......... 2-> "Given the inefficiencies of what DC laughingly calls the criminal justice system, I think we can safely assume that 95 percent of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."

    He is in agreement with Alex Jones and the Truthers regarding the notion that 9/11 was a government conspiracy.

    He has a truly unrealistic idea about the free market being able and willing to police itself without government regulations. When asked about the obvious transgressions of industry and big business back during the late 1800s and early 1900s he contended that that was a collusion between government and business. He may have been right about some collusion, but it was the very fact there were no regulations being installed because of the collusion. He is looney tunes brightly packaged for mainstream wannabe libertarians.
  • #48
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    @MRMacrum Your first 2 quotes are under dispute. The guy who claims he thought 9/11 is the same one who says Paul's not racist at all. We have to discount one or the other from the source, so I have to discount the source in reality. Additionally, if you listen to his public statements, he doesn't exactly say what you're claiming. His issue is government has a vested interest in colluding with big business for a myriad of nefarious reasons. We have seen so many things from the free market such as cooking oil recycling to employee wellness that sprang up not because of the government, but in spite of them.

    Anyone who has been around as long as he has with as many powerful detractors is bound to have well-publicized 2nd hand rumors about him. I don't KNOW which items are true, and which are false, so I have to go with what I can verify. His videoed statements about economic collapse years before it happened, his documented fears of foreign interventions which later turned into devastating quagmires, and straight-forward answers on difficult questions show him to be anything but a whack job.
  • #61
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    @Hireman - They are under dispute? Of course they are. Any Paul fan would dispute them. These were just some quick examples I could come up with. The man does live with both feet firmly planted in this universe. He is an idealist. And that is fine, but his notions would not work in our society, or this World.
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  • #65
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    Consider this "Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those "traitors" became our country's greatest patriots." - Ron Paul
    Then go to http://paul.house.gov and read the reasoning behind his thinking.
    I know some consider the man to be a lunatic. But people who speak the truth are often labeled as such. At one time anyone who said the earth was round was talked about in much the same way. And yes it is very dangerous to be speaking of secession. But only dangerous to the authoritarians and judementals . Paul just believes while pondering the question it may make some of us look at who we are as a country as apposed to what we are supposed to be. Free.( Another dangerous word. Meaning, not under the control or in the power of another; able to act or be done as one wishes.) He knows as everyone else does secession will never happen.
    Just an after thought _ To be free requires tolerance and we are diffidently lacking in that regard. It must be a character flaw we all have.The flaw of being arrogant.
  • #37
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    I am sure that lots of people were against us leaving the Untited Kingdom about 230 years ago.
    Not sure if it is a good idea but there is no reason not to discuss it. We as a nation are a sinking ship, jump off before it goes completely under water.
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  • #95
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    Those people back then that didn't want to go against the crown. They where told to go to Canada until the uprising was stopped.
  • #9
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    Isn't it odd that a self-described "constitutionalist" exhibits such astonishing ignorance of constitutional law. Texas v Smith, Dr. Paul.
  • #24
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    Yo DARSB - question: Along the lines of secession... If a state can't secede, could an individual give up their US Citizenship which would amount to a 'personal secession' and remain in the US.?? Would one then have to designate a country they are a citizen of?? How many of the benefits or taxation would they be entitled to??
    Now I don't care one way or the other - I'm just kicking a debate topic around some.
  • #30
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    You do understand that this country was founded on secession? Right? The 13 colonies seceded from Great Britain and formed their own country. Is that not what the CSA did in 1860? "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation." How is secession unconstitutional?
  • #32
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    @Rocker Truth to tell, wealthy Americans have been renouncing their American citizenship to avoid taxes in increasing numbers - which is strange since the Bush tax cuts have favored them for over a decade.

    Staying in the US might be a problem for them, however, since they might not have been granted citizenship in another country, which would leave them without either a passport or legal status in the USA. Where you'd deport a formerly American person is a neat question, isn't it? http://goo.gl/3xm1X
  • #39
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    @DARSB - In the theoretical case, renouncement or secession, one would give up that which has been paid into SSI because that is a federal program. Also, continued residence would amount to an illegal immigrant without a deportation status. Without sovereign recognition after secession then, a state would essentially become immigrants under the same conditions. Is that supposition in the ballpark?
  • #40
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    @CCR Hmm... Sister Mary Agony taught us the American Revolution was a rebellion, not a secession, involving as it did military force and the deaths of many many people on both sides. The CSA committed rebellion, not secession, hence the Civil War.

    Secession requires a formal method, one that doesn't exist in the Constitution, and in fact wasn't included in the earlier Articles of Confederation. Furthermore, we have over a century of legal precedent denying secession, starting with Texas v Smith in which Chief Justice Salmon Chase wrote a beautiful majority decision.
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  • #4
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    Ron Paul is a peculiar little man. Sometime he has some pretty good ideas but often he's just batsh*t crazy. That being said the country would be better off without some of those low IQ taker red states.
  • #14
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    Funny, 69% of folks without a high school diploma in Ohio voted for Obama, blue state. Texas sounds pretty good to me!
  • #34
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    Oh yeah, real batshit crazy. If keeping the government at a minimal size and making people actually exercise personal responsibility and govern themselves is a crazy idea then I guess you can call me crazy as well.
  • #80
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    @PNWest

    "I guess you can call me crazy as well. " I'm OK with that."

    What an attitude change!
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  • #105
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    I think its wrong for the author of this story to dismiss the authority of the tenth amendment out of hand. Sadly though, our society either does'nt understand the constitution or is affraid of the responsibilities brought about from it. Most would likely trade a feeling of security,however false in nature, to actual freedom from an oppressive nanny federal government.
  • #103
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    Fiscally responsible states (the few that remain) will end up footing the bill for the blue states who are spending themselves into oblivion. California will be the first to need a bailout, and it will come from other states that reigned in their spending.

    As the European Union is bailing out its failing members, the United States will bail out its states that run out of cash.

    Get out while you still have some money left.
  • #38
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    Sometimes it seems it isnt at all possible considering the division that is being instilled by both liberal media and Obama playing the race card and damning certain classes according to their income... and Black Panther members standing at polls for 2 elections straight. You cant fight division with division.
  • #8
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    Actually I hope he takes up the standard of the loony secessionist crowd. Let folks see just how dangerously odd the man is.
  • #186
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    Keep on dreaming red necks...Obama has done nothing to substantiate succession...get over it there's half a black man in the White House omg
  • #184
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    why is this under "discredited ideas?" Not many wish to address anything with Dr Paul seriously. Why, they receive all their information from the TV. They still have this convoluted notion that the press is still the 4th wing of government. If it isn't on TV it didn't happen or if it did happen it will surely be on TV. Even though the press is full of bought prostitutes, they expect us to believe, and sadly some still do, that they do not fabricate, omit, and stretch stories. Then these bottom feeders try to speak as if they speak for the people.
    And they wonder why their ratings are right up there with the shopping channel.
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