• #3
    Also obama and Democrats would get blamed for it, as it would be their fault we went over the cliff. That means our next president most likely won't be a communist.
  • #24
    @PNWest Hillary Clinton is a war monger... if we manage to survive intact through Obama's second term... and the women, Mexicans, Blacks and gays subject us to Hillary... we're done for!!! Y'all need to quit voting for what is best for yourselves... and vote instead what is best for your country!!!
  • R Load more replies

  • #23
    The only inevitability of a crash will be due to intransigence of the Tea party and sheer greed GOP and ignorance of the idiots on both sides of the aisle
  • #107
    If the GOP is so Intent to drive the Bus over the Cliff Lets go for it.After all their Uber Rich buddy's well lets just say they deserve to pay More much much much more
  • #32
    I'm ready to dive off that sucker. We need to go off this cliff to bring back some fiscal responsibility to the nation. The rich might be taxed more and they will survive and so will the middle class. People might have to get over they can't keep up with the Jones and become fiscally responsible themselves and more foresighted but that will all lead to a debt free future for the kids.
  • #110
    No. The Republicans are playing games with our lives. They need to accept the Presidents' victory and stop being sore losers. They have shown nothing but disdain and disrespect for this President since his first inauguration.
  • #109
    i say it is high time, we quit giving our government tax bailouts. for their over spending habits, they are all responsible for. and if we fail to do anything about it, we are all just as guilty as they are for it. since their mo is still the same, raise taxes and overspend even more. not even try to use, tax increases to reduce the deficit. instead of using it as an, excuse to overspend even more. because you all approve, of your government representives doing this.
  • #106
    It always confounds me how when ever fiscal issues come up you have that sector that echoes the Dem mantra of tax-the-rich. First of all who are the rich? Is it people making over 1 million dollars or what the BO administration defines as millionaires aka- those who make over $250,000? It's so utterly stupid I think most of them are brainless.

    First of all many small businesses will be impacted over large corporations who can find loopholes to avoid paying those taxes. David Cay Johnston is a guy who has first hand knowledge on that and has written a books called "Small Print", how giant corporations get to pocket payroll taxes they collect from their workers instead of paying them to the state, how power companies have charged customers for maintenance they've never performed and how the shift to 401(k) retirement plans has been a boondoggle for American's retirement security.

    Then there's the issue of taxing corporations. Who are you really taxing? Not the owners or CEOs, but the share holders. Almost 75% of dividend payments go to those over the age of 55, and more than 50% go to those older than 65, according to IRS data. So all Americans would lose. Higher dividend and capital gains taxes make stocks less valuable. A share of stock is worth the discounted present value of the future earnings stream after taxes. Stock prices would fall over time to adjust to the new after-tax rate of return.”

    Employers that pay individual income tax rates account for a majority of all private sector workers and create most new jobs in America, so raising taxes on “the rich” indiscriminately would mean even fewer dollars available for hiring and investment. Many people forget that corporations are investor owned, and many investors are states and union organizations that have pensions invested in them. So do we have to burn down our houses to warm our butts?

    But ultimately what needs to be done is just trough out the income tax and replace it with something much simpler, most of it benefits large corporations anyway. Countries that have gone to a flat tax are doing pretty good. And the government need to do severe austerity in spending. The Federal Government is so riddled with waste, fraud and excessive entitlements it make Madoff look like a saint. Many state and county governments have the same problems, particularly in California. So an overhaul of how politicians run for their positions needs to change to help prevent the 'K' street revolving door on big corporations and political influences, not Wall Street, that's just the investment market.

    So for the government to go over the fiscal cliff would be a good thing as they would be forced to reconcile the excesses. Of course Congress and BO could go on with their stalemate and the government would just continue to have to cut expenses until 2016 when a new election cycles occurs or 2014 when voters have an opportunity to change Congress for better or worse. So far it has been for the worse.

    It's really strange in my state. The voter voted in 2 Republicans, A mayor and a governor, who are getting the states and cities finances in order but then they turn around and vote for 2 Dems, a Senator and House, that have shown fiscal and economic insanity. They have shown knee jerk responses over entitlements and social issues. And I think they believe that just taxing the so called rich will bring them salvation, what a bunch of naves.
  • #105
    is there any difference, in jumping of a smaller cliff today, or a taller cliff tomorrow? when in either case, there is still going to be that sudden stop.
  • #72
    The idiot liberals have already said that if we go over the fiscal cliff they are prepared to blame George Bush. How long will the morons in our country continue to fall for that? I think the long term Democratic strategy consists of blaming George Bush for the next 50 years. LOL - like anyone in the electorate will even remember Bush by that time.
  • #63
    Yes we should!! If Obama gets the Tax increases he's demanding the extra 8 days it will run our government will just put us to a higher cliff next, it's time government tightened its purse strings like the rest of us!!! It would be interesting to see how many of the unemployed would be employed if government quit supporting them!!
    Then we could actually held the true needy that are being deprived all the help they need because of the freeloaders!!
  • #61
    Lets pull a HOSTESS and end all salaries and bennies, never to be reinstated, for all ellected and appointed goverment people.
  • #60
    Stupid argument - Both sides looking to blame the other - the ONLY thing the government should be spending money on is the defense department and Social Security. Trash everything else.
  • #52
    I hope so. Americans need to lose enough comfort and fiscal security to get off our lazy asses and force congress to do the right thing for America. Flat tax and term limits to start with.
  • #55
    Term limits are in effect now & have been for years. CALLED , VOTE. but alas ppl return the spenders to spend more.. I say cut congress pay & perks., Thats millions right there.
  • #34
    Yes, go over the cliff, but with a plan in mind. EVERY American must start businesses that financially support the existing businesses they work for. Converting unused credit into investment capital will lift ALL boats, and bail the state out of debt in short order. Anything else is just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic; petty, shortsighted, and confiscatory.
  • #31
    Should America Go Over The Fiscal Cliff?
    YES! as Americans we know that the system is rigged and a default would reset the system, Put us back onto the Gold Standard, where they cant borrow $$$ and they have to by law have a balanced budget. We are now $16.5 Trillion in debt to China, Because liberal politic's allowed us to go into ruin.
  • #28
    I have always been for current Americans to get their fiscal house in order. I consider it morally wrong to saddle future generations with debt that is accrued as a result overspending on recurring "monthly bills."

    There's a difference between assuming debt for "one-time costs" and "recurring costs." One-time costs are like the construction of the interstate system during the Eisenhower Administration or the park in Wasilla when Palin was mayor. Recurring costs are like the maintenance costs of the interstate system or the park in Wasilla.

    So long as the recurring costs won't accrue debt, cases can be made for taking on debt that future citizens could be responsible for paying.

    Not so with recurring costs.
  • #29
    So... What does all of the above have to do with the fiscal cliff? Simple. At present, we are accruing more debt every year in order to pay our "monthly bills"... recurring costs.

    I would prefer it if we could get our fiscal house in order without having to prove to half of America that raising the "revenue" rates when we are already on the wrong side of the Laffer Curve will result in less revenue as a result of less growth or even shrinkage of our GDP.

    Part of me wants at least a temporary fix to the "fiscal cliff" if only to give us more time to educate the masses who have fallen for the Left's Class Warfare rhetoric... But another part of me shakes its head and concludes that half of America need to find out for themselves that the Left's classist economic policies are a recipe for economic collapse.
  • #25
    Good thing the deficit is shrinking faster under President Obama than any time since WWII - but that doesn't mitigate the damage to be done by the Alternative Minimum Tax. The" cliff" has also been described as a " slope" since not all the horribilomas happen on the first day.
  • #27
    You are my favorite person to read here. While I am more conservative than you, you always seem to make decent sense and your wit is outstanding. Having said that, you are correct that Obama is spending less in today's dollars than any president since WWII. At the same time Military spending will never shrink unless something drastic like this happens. The other things can be rectified by congress looking to get reelected but that military spending has to be cute.
  • #36
    @jessejaymes Thanks for the props, I appreciate the chance to discuss things with an intelligent group of sincere patriots.

    The Pentagon had been blessed for quite a long time. I read someplace this week that even if the sequester knicks off $500 BILLION from its budget we'll still be spending more than the next biggest military spender, China.

    My personal view is we haven't yet dealt with the end of the Cold War and all that it implies. It's important to do so, to get the military sized for our actual needs. If we hadn't had so much military might lying around unused we wouldn't have gotten tangled up in two unnecessary wars.
  • #37
    @DARSB We currently spend more on the Military than the next 9 nations combined. And we spend 10 times what China spends. We have 30,000 Abrams tanks retrofitted at a cost of 5 million per tank sitting idle beyond what is in use and another 4,000 waiting to be retrofitted. The Pentagon says this unnecessary yet the GOP House says they will retrofit those tanks. We could sell them to Israel or another ally and make money instead of spending it. This has to stop.
  • #48
    @DARSB My mistake. I should have said 30,000 tanks retrofitted at a cost of TWENTY 5 million per tank.
  • #22
    Should America go over the fiscal cliff? I don't think America has a choice in the matter. A fundamental law of reality is that you can't consume more than you produce. Look at any cheap grocery store almanac and you'll see that America has consumed more than it has produced for decades. So when is the payback for all this excess consumption? Don't worry, reality will find us soon, and it WILL collect. It doesn't matter how you vote, who is elected, or what laws are passed. Reality will aways prevail and the reality is if we could raise $16 trillion by tomorrow .......... then tomorrow we would be broke.
  • R Load more comments...