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  • #58
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    It's about time that 138 nations stood up and took right action. I am ashamed that America was not one of them.
  • #52
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    Palestine and it's people have been the greatest victims of the expansion of Zionism. They are much like the Native Americans only theirs is a living horror perpetrated with US support today
  • #44
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    I think this is a good thing. I think any attempts to teach both sides to try to do this peacefully is good. Contnuing to build in the occupied areas violates the treaty, shooting rockets into Isreal violates the treaty. Collective punishment of Palestians violates international law, murder of civillians by bombing civilian busses and Pizza stands violates international law. Bush insisted the Palstinians advance democracy by having an election. The Palestian Authority resisted that idea. The election was held. Hammas won. Bush then sais Hammas were terrorist that we should not recognize. This entire situation is a mess. My preference would be to pluck all the religiuos fanatics on both sides out of the country, put them on a desrted island and let them kill eachother. Until that happens anything that uses diplomacy, and peaceful methods for either side to make its point has my support.
  • #63
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    > pluck all the religiuos fanatics on both sides out of the country, put them on a desrted island and let them kill each other

    +1

    In seriousness, part of the problem actually is that Israel is a "jewish" country, and was created as such. No country should be "jewish" or "muslim" or any particular religion. Religions are stupid and certainly don't deserve their own countries.
  • #71
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    @ded
    But god sais so. In all seriousness that to me is not the issue, settling Jews there after ww2 and giving them a homland was fine, it was the zionist who in essense used terrorism to get palestinians to flee that were the problem. This political faction are the ones that continue to build in the occupied territories. There are plenty of jews in israel that support peace, problem is the right wing a holes like sharoon, and that political party, like the repubs in the u.s. see war and hatred as the solution to many problems..
  • #26
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    It's been impossible to establish a two state solution, I guess because nobody wanted to treat Palestine as a state. That just changed. Now, maybe, Israel will realize that operating an open air prison for 1.7 million people has run its course. I hope.
  • #27
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    I rarely challenge your logic as I can see your point even if I disagree but here I don't. The Palestinian history is that they war. They warred on other Arabs for a thousand years before Israel ever came into existence. Hamas says after Israel they are going for Jordan as that was also their lands. They took weapons from Hitler to massacre other Arabs did they not? Their history is full of more atrocities committed than any other group that reside in what is known as the "Arab world". I understand your point about an "open air prison" but I don't see what else the Jews can do.
  • #29
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    @jessejaymes I entirely understand and approve of the motives behind the creation of Israel in 1947. After the extravagance of the Holocaust it's exemplary that the world community took the best, single step possible to prevent another try at Jewish genocide.

    70 years later, the behavior of the Israeli government has been singularly unmindful of the interests of anyone else, let alone the needs of the captive Palestinians. In a horribly ironic turn of events Israel is operating a concentration camp. This cannot be sustained, and today's UN action, I hope, marks the point at which the Palestinian Authority, which engineered the UN vote, reclaims its legitimate role as the governing body of what may become a Palestinian nation.

    That development, in which Hamas is demoted to the fanatic criminal class it truly is, makes me a bit more optimistic than ever before.
  • #31
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    @DARSB I hope you are correct. What I wonder is why no outcry to give back Jordan to the Palis? All of Jordan and a tip of Syria is former Pali land and much more desirable land than Israel. Why no demand for them? Again, I'm not debating your statement about an open air prison although I don't see how you can call this a concentration camp in light of the Holocaust. I don't recall that the Jews only had to recognize the right of Germany to exist in order to escape their fate. I don't see how Israel can do much differently than they are doing when the Palis will not recognize Israel's right to exist and stop raining rockets on them. I would be more sympathic if they were to simply say yeah, two countries. You are good to stay here. I know it's much more complicated than that but it can get to the complicated parts if the Palis will not say that.?????
  • #33
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    @jessejaymes It's terribly complicated, as all balances of competing human needs and desires must be. As I said at the beginning, it's tough to achieve a two state solution unless both sides are recognized as states. Therefore I am hopeful that today's vote will stimulate a new, productive stage in the search for a peaceful solution. I doubt I will see it, but I'm hopeful none the less.
  • #59
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    Darsb -- did you see in today's Wa Post where Israel has already retaliated against the UN approval by issuing an order to build 3000 new Israeli structures in the West Bank ??!!! Sadly, it doesn't sound as if Israel has any intentions of opting for peace.
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  • #19
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    I live in amazement at how the USA has forgotten that Sirhan Sirhan killed Robert Kennedy because he was angry at the USA supporting Israel.
  • #57
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    I think its been pretty clear that Palestine is a different state from Israel for a long time. It is silly to have objected to this designation.
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  • #67
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    Hey @steveandesinTN, I agree that you can use proxies and people won't be able to stop you. But why are you propagating this sort of childish cartoon racism? You're not really offending people, you're just making yourself look an idiot in public.

    Also spare a thought for the people who work on the site -- they're just trying to build a great website. They didn't have anything against you, so why deface their website in this way?
  • #53
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    Obama & Co quietly support this but since the US bankrolls Israel (at least for now) they are maintaining the status quo.
  • #51
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    Ok.. Now Israel should say Ok.. You are a State.. Close all boarders with Israel, cut off all supplies passing through Israeli boarders, Not send them a Dime in funding and let Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the Arab world support them... Then tell them as a State they will be held responsible for every rocket fired from their State and would be targeted each time one was fired. Same with the US ... They wish for Statehood then they be supported by the states they associate themselves with.
  • #50
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    I see nothing special about Israel. As far as I can tell, they bullied their way into the Middle East and created a mess with the help of the United States and Great Britain.

    God has them thrown off the land about 2000 years ago for killing the prophets and His Son Jesus. If God wanted them over there they wouldn't be having so much trouble.
  • #65
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    I see. And when a child dies, the parents' pain, God wants that does he? You really should be ashamed of voicing those sorts of religious beliefs in public.

    I agree with your first two sentences though.
  • #72
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    @ded
    YOU are the one saying that. I was talking about the nation of Israel which has no connection to your parenting pain analogy.

    In the 1800s the Jewish population in Israel was a mere 4% it was 36% Palestinians. After the Palestinians beat the Ottoman empire the British came in and talked about apportioning more of the land to the Jews. Meanwhile the Jews began flooding in from all over the map and taking land from the Palestinians by force. Today the Jewish population is 53% with over 5 million living there and growing.

    I would have no problem with it except they forced their way in. Is it any wonder the Palestinians despise them so much? Would you like for me to force you off your property and take up living in your house and saying that it's mine by divine will? I very much doubt it.

    There will be no true peace in that region ever.
  • #73
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    @Laradian Hi @Laradian, I think we agree with each other.(It's just that you said "If God wanted..." which sounded like batty theism to me.) I am also not at all comfortable with the creation of Israel by the white imperialists of the mid-20th century. And I agree that the Arab population has every reason to hate the Israelis. However, achieving peace is not about who is right and who is wrong. It's Israel that seem to be more interested in demonstrating their power and the strength of their position, than they are in actually preventing more deaths: witness their disgusting response to the vote at the UN. So I think we should try to focus as little as possible on the justness of people's hatred, but instead on how peace can be achieved.
  • #48
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    Why doesn't Britain want Pa$estine to join the international criminal court? Isreal is a big bully. And the US is scared they can't beat 'em (financially) so they join 'em
  • #46
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    Shocked. The UN is a bunc of do-nothing losers who spend wildly while accomplishing nothing. They're anti-Israel so this isn't really all that shocking. A great spending cut: eliminate the UN, or at very least, have the "diplomats" pay for their own security and hotels...don't really see how the representative of a poor country deserves five star accommodations and total use of NYPD and US security services or DSS. So the Palestinians have bullied the UN: it's okay to shoot rockets and blow-up busses, no problem, welcome to the UN...nonmember State...
  • #64
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    Whoa, wtf dude? It's not the UN, it's the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD. The USA and Israel are on their own. Don't you get it? It's not about an overly bureaucratic institution. This is the entire world telling the USA that it is on the wrong side on this one.
  • #76
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    @ded well, being an American I agree with their position - the UN are a bunch of do-nothing morons - "States" shouldn't be allowed to terrorize their way into recognition. But that's what the world allows for. Israel will never give-up more than they have done already...they have the Palestinian police forces arms and what happens? Those arms are used against the Israelis. Still they let Palestinians work in Israel, get healthcare from Israeli hospitals, and want a peaceful solution. When I was in Gaza last year it's probably the most filthy place I've ever seen, there was no law, the PLO won respect when they made "peace" but they're getting bullied by Hamas - a terror to the whole world - Hamas doesn't really "care" but they certainly love blowing people up. I don't see how a State, run by a terrorist regime, deserves "recognition" from anyone, let alone membership in the UN. But as I type this I realize who actually cares? Hopefully the gesture will stop Hamas's continual terror...guess we'll see.
  • #77
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    @VeryLameduck Hi VeryLameduck, OK, but to be fair, the initiative at the UN was Abbas/Fatah's doing, not Hamas. We've got to try to be positive here if there is any hope, and one sort of positive thinking is not to simply criticize Fatah because of Hamas's existence (it's not like they are fans of each other)

    I'd love to know what took you to Gaza if you don't mind giving more details.
  • #45
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    There will never be any peace in the region as long as radical Islam is allowed to whip the populace in to rabid mobs....same as it ever was.
  • #39
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    I think this is a positive step! Two-states is the only possible way to go, but there is one big big obstacle and that is Hamas. I don't blame the Israelis one bit for not trusting them.
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  • #62
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    Do you think it's acceptable to compare muslim immigrants to cockroaches in public? Clue: it isn't. Your comments are disgusting racism, of the sort that reaffirms everyone's worst suspicions about conservatives/right wingers in the USA. They make this site less pleasant for other users and I have asked politix to remove them.@FenceSitter
  • #78
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    @ded good for you look how powerful you are...

    I post a lot of opinions at this site , I can't possibly remember word for word each post but the fact that it was removed by moderator does not mean it had racial overtones, it simply means it offended your delicate sensitivities.
    I sense you lack any real world experience with mobs of Palestinians who want to see you killed and see your corpse violated, and not specifically you , but if you are a " Westerner" or a "Jew" that certainly is the case and is expressed daily and as a national battle cry by their citizenry.
    I don't recall word for word what the post was but the "cockroach" reference was likely and illustration of the way they act and think with the mob group mentality. the facts are the facts and the Palestinians have never been an honest partner for peace and never will be.

    add voting them non member status is not going to further the peace process, stopping firing rockets into Israel will. I don't need to explain myself to you nor do I need to apologize for the word cockroach in my post. I was using as an illustration of that mob mentality, and apparently I was successful in it.

    I realize you are "new" here, there will be opinions that you disagree with.
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  • #15
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    Yeah, sure there'll be a two state solution.. religion is involved, so when they get to jerusalem,(which the same god gave to both sides..funny guy, the almighty...) the talks will break down and they will start killing each other in their god's name again....

    ain''t religion grand?!?!
  • #16
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    @hwyangel - Do you really think he supports Israel? I think obama is just pretending. He gave Netanyahu the cold shoulder for a long time. Wouldn't even meet with him when he came to NYC. Instead obama headed off to the View. I'm just a little skeptical.
  • #17
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    @Neo_NtheMatrix

    the Obama administration has never strayed from the long held US stance of unwavering support for the security of Israel...regardless of what the far right whackjob media as told you...
  • #30
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    @Neo_NtheMatrix

    Maybe not as much support as I would like. But has taken the narrow path in standing with Israel against the odds. I have to give him credit where credit is due.
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