• #4
    There is a trend toward looking at creativity as something our society doesn't need. Creative thinkers are deemed "idealists" and "naive" - and those terms are used as an insult rather than a compliment... Our congress has been rendered completely ineffective in problem-solving because no one dares think outside the box any more. Imagination is a gift... and imaginitive people are the greatest problem-solvers... they are also our greatest inventors. Take away a child's ability to create, you may as well groom him at an early age to perform the same task every day so he can contribute revenue... since that is the only contributions we value anymore...$$$
  • #8
    Creativity grounded with common sense. To solve any problem one must first admit that there is a problem, then identify the problem. History gives us a factual base to help identify the problem, creativity give us the ability to solve the problem. History also give us the ability not to make the same mistake twice. ;-]
  • #16
    @FollowTheMoney - I prefer common sense heightened by creativity. Creativity gives people insight and enhanced ability to see problems before they have a widespread impact on society. History simply reminds us of consequences of a problem not being solved. BTW, "common sense" is a product of creativity AND knowledge of facts. You can't have common sense if you can't imagine the impact of your behavior on your environment AND come up with a solution based on facts learned from consequences.
  • #28
    @FollowTheMoney - Yes, I alluded to that when I blatantly said: "come up with a solution based on facts learned from consequences."
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  • #5
    I am often amazed by how little people know about our country, it's government and it's history. I really don't see why we aren't already doing this.
  • #14
    Understanding Edgar Allen poes crooked mind won't help our children understand economics and history (which always and I mean ALWAYS repeat themselves). I agree with you completely. Fantasy worlds in the mind that ate written on paper don't solve problems. Understanding the world how it works and the history of it allows you to stop the repetition of history and allows the to produce and provide a better future for their children. Sorry if people dislike that we are moving to a logical reasoning age.
  • #22
    @kirbstomp1 Thanks for the vote up. But to be clear, I'm not against promoting creativity. I just think history and the three R's should come first. Moderation and balance are key, along with a heavy dose of reality and common sense.

    PS. I can't stand Edgar Allen Poe... ;-]
  • #41
    @FollowTheMoney - I think creativity comes through education itself. Think of engineers, the most by the book people. But they also seem to (create) and engineer the most magnificent structures and mechanical machines. I believe every student should take an art class and a historical literary class. Everything ties into history, the different ages, and how science is accepted. Even fiction is good, but like this thing says, only 30 percent should be fiction. We don't like in a fiction world, we live in a realist world and our children need to understand how the real world works.
  • #1
    Did I have these oppressive educational standards held on me when I was a child, no.
    Do I have a decent job... Yes.
    Why are they making kids learn more and more sooner and sooner?
    Kids have honestly gotten dumber in recent years, an I blame the explosion of the learn everything today craze.
  • #53
    @martydotcom My first thought...not the "comment", but that it would be brought up quickly. Maybe because it's Sunday? LOL
  • #58
    @martydotcom LOL....but originally from California. So, I guess if I believed in hell, I would be going there. LMAO
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  • #36
    Let me ask everybody a honest question. Has any of you witnessed the facts in History? Any of you performed experiments? Any of you honestly know why we need to congigate a vedrb? I didnt think so....... So why do so many say the Bible isnt true facts??? I would believe it long before I would believe american history..
  • #38
    Because, my dear friend, Kellso,...learning to conjugate a verb is something that would serve all educated Americans, in one capacity or the other, at some point in their professional life. Learning one form of religion and/or trying to force it upon all students (regardless of that child's personal beliefs) is not a good use of classroom time. At least in my opinion. I personally don't know if the bible is "true or factual" or not. I have my personal views on it. But kids can learn their faith or religion at home, or at the church, temple, etc., of their choice. But school needs to teach those basic skills, and sets of knowledge that we CAN all agree on, and are needed for that child to compete.
  • #62
    @Sonny I aint worried about the basics of school if that is what the heart of the mater is.(Did you understand what I just said?)( I said aint and that isnt proper english but you understood it..) The Bible is more history than any man can imagine so it IS something that should be taught and not all the silly crap that the kids are burned out with today. and as for a child compete????? Comjpete with who? another kid that learned useless crap that has no usefulness in life except used to 'compete' in cliques? I was manager of public facilities for ALL my life. I had only a 12 grade level deploma. I still managed and taught college kids that had engineering degrees and they learned the facts of life and also how to live in todays world and MAKE MONEY by using their common sense and NORMAL abilities. College is mostly for the clique to go learn things that they teach to other clilquie kids in college so they can teach other clique kids and so on, and so forth. Trade schools are whats needed and all the useless clique subjects need to be put to bed somewhere.

    If you doubt that the Bible is not true then research and then see how you feel. I researched the history of the wars and i come to the conclusion that they did infact happen. I reasearched the information given to us in teh Bible and have also come to the conclusion IT WAS AND IS REAL!
  • #65
    And before you critique my typing abilities, with some extra letters in the words sometimes or dislexic letters in some words, I usually try to correct them before i post but sometimes I just let things fall as they come.
  • #76
    The Bible is the only record or proof for a lot of claims, and that in itself is troubling for independent academic inquiry, but okay for religion study where spirituality and belief is the driving force. Job, David and Goliath encounter, humans in a fiery furnace unharmed, there is no proof of any of that other than the Bible.

    God is worshipped in spirit and truth and many of stories in Bible are devised to make a spiritual point. Lots of metaphors, parables, allegory, fictional stories to make a higher point. Then some of Bible is about cultures, customs, traditions, and practices attributed to be from God which have nothing to do with God.

    If there was a diseae in pigs many people would not stop eating them just because someone said they were not healthy, rather it would take the invoking of God's name to dissuade the people from eating the diseased pigs. Then the people begin telling a story of unclean animals and citing God as forbidding the eating of them, which would contradict that everything God made is good, and later Jesus says same thing that it is not that which goes in the mouth that defiles the person but that which comes out of the mouth by the tongue, the words we speak.

    Very important to determine if it is from God or mammon. That from God is consistent throughout the Bible. That from mammon is not.
  • #77
    @WMCOL The Bible says the Jesus Christ was borned, Crusified and died, and when they looked in the toumb, it was empty! We know where the toumb is. Whe know where those cities or towns that were told about are today. The men and women of the Bible in many years prior to the actual appearance of Jesus told us He was coming. It was even told what He would say when He was on the cross and what the Roman souldiers would be doing at the time He was on the cross. What more proof does anyone want????
    About the swine ( as is with all scavengers). They were created by GOD to help cleanse the earth and thus should not be eaten because they were poisonus by the filth they eat. GOD created everything we need for nourishment and for medication. So GOD created the scavangers for a purpose and thus THEY ARE GOOD! GOD also gave us all free will to kill ourselves if we were stupid enough to do so and I'm sorry to say, we are killing ourselves and eachother.

    If anyone uses common sense that GOD gave us all, and if one reads and absorbs the meaning of the words and stories that GOD told the profits to put down, it is easy to understand. BUT dont take what mankind has rewritten over and over an overfor years that has clouded the actual wording and meaning of GODS word. Go to the OLDEST writing of the Holy Bible that you can find and it is far closer to the original writings. Even it had some misinterpetations and was warned about by the people that published it for King James.
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  • #26
    The real issue is not the curriculum. The problem is a culture that doesn't value education and in which the parents hold no responsibility. They can alter the curriculum a million different ways, but until parents return to being interested in their children's lives and involved in their schooling our situation will continue to deteriorate.
  • #34
    I think most parents are very much interested in their child's education. But you have to understand that parents (all of us) are under more pressure now more than ever before, to simply put food on the table. Many parents work several jobs, just to be able to send their kid to a good school, and may not have as much time as they would like to attend all PTA meetings, or help with home work every night. That does not mean they are not interested...its just a matter of practically using what little time is now available these days.
  • #18
    I see nothing wrong with teaching our kids a greater degree of practical skills & knowledge that they will need to compete in this very competitive world. I mean learning Yeats, Emerson, and learning to recite Moby-Dick, chapter by chapter is "nice"...but may not be all that practical for a young kid competing for some opportunity that requires more "technical skills"..It's a good move, and I think it should have been done long ago. In fact, I would like to see more of the building trades taught in our schools, as they once were in schools throughout Maryland. Good move on the part of schools, for a change.
  • #15
    Good! Now Mark Levin's book Liberty & Tyranny can be used in government courses. It's about time conservative literature other than the constitution is taught!
  • #20
    No let's please leave this kind of partisan warfare out of our schools. And stick to things that a student can use, not more political rhetoric...
  • #12
    People can read literature when they're not in school. Folks in the article act like it's impossible for someone to read of their own free will.
  • #96
    That's a good point. By the time I went to high school, I'd already read many of the novels on the English or American literature lists for my classes. My entire junior and senior years were "extra credit" where English classes were concerned.

    That said, however, if we tip the scales too far towards non-fiction, aren't we creating a generation of automatons, skilled in whatever passes for labor but lacking in creativity, imagination, and abstract thinking? Also, I learned more history in high school by reading fiction than by reading the history textbooks. I also learned how to write by reading fiction. 70/30 may be a bit too far. I guess we'll see.
  • #9
    Who's view of "non fiction"? Especially for history class. The lib indoctrination that's being taught today or actual history of the country/world. This might be a good thing. If done correctly, the "nanny state" mentality might actually be gotten away from. That is, if schooling is actually still required by then. It seems as of now, the government wants everyone on full welfare once born until they die. That's the libs view of "non fiction".
  • #23
    There is no "lib indoctrination" taught in any school that I am aware of...That stuff continues to be a myth by the right.
  • #73
    @Sonny It seems the only people that don't believe in the lib indoctrination are the ones that are indoctrinated themselves. The lib indoctrination starts with the "entitlement" mentality taught at home from the "taker" parents and continues on through the child's school years with the "cradle to grave nanny state" propaganda that gets pumped into them daily. The ones that do actually graduate and go onto college get a double dose of the socialistic process pounded into them from the lib professors that "teach" what their lib masters tell them to.
    Here's something that puzzles me about the libs. If the libs are so anti business and corporations, why do the libs use their products,(cell phones, computers, cars) all the time? Why don't all of the libs gather together and go "without" the evil boss's products?
    Or does it just boil down to another hypocritical stance from the left as with most other situations they get involved in?
  • #89
    @NotReally Actually I do. I have a son in high school. So your assumption as to my knowledge of "what passes for history" is not correct.
  • #90
    @NO-BAMA Once again, there is no such thing as any "liberal indoctrination". What some on the right get all bent out of shape about is the fact that so many people do not believe in their right wing theories. So they start making up stuff like "liberal indoctrination" and "black liberation theology"...LOL...What a crock of non sense...

    No one is "anti-business"...It s just that, unlike the right, we don't "trust" each and every aspect of our lives to big business or the so-called free market...Can't understand why you would? They are the one's doing the so-called "taking"....not the poor family down the street trying to get by on a poverty-level income...because your "corporate takers" are too greedy to pay them a decent living wage.

    So please if there is any attempt to "indoctrinate" anyone its you guys on the right who think that ALL of us have to either agree with you and your way of thinking or else....LOL Well if that is your definition of "liberal indoctrination" (not agreeing with you) then I would rather be "indoctrinated" any day!
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  • #117
    Right, because there's no academic or educational value in reading things like the Great Gatsby, 1984, or William Shakespeare for that matter.
    I'm becoming more and more convinced that we should do away with public education. All these top-down rules for how to educate kids can only stifle innovation.
    What kept me from coming to this position has been my concern for poorer students, but what if instead of public education the government gives means-tested guaranteed vouchers to parents and still keeps education compulsory or even abolish compulsory education but create legal and economic protections for students who wish to attend school but their parents don't want them to. Yes, this means some of the more well-off families will find themselves having more bills to pay, but it's worth it to be able to open up market forces while at the same time guaranteeing every child an education. We are already paying for it with our taxes and the quality will be better.
    We should do the same thing for healthcare. Healthcare should be a right, but if you have enough money you can pay your own way. And we should abolish private insurance as well and make those with the means pay out of pocket. That would lead to a drop in health care prices and the government wouldn't have to pay for as many people.
    There's always one side saying "government should do it" and one saying "the market should do it". Why not generally keep it in the market but use the government as a safety net just for those who don't have the means?
  • #113
    While the US might have China beat at Twain, it certainly doesn't at math and sciences and Twain doesn't move economic growth and technological advancement.
  • #112
    Perhaps we should take a look into my favorite FICTION book "Brave New World". I'm not saying that the world will definitely come out to what is described in the book, but this is exactly what is happening. Anything that doesn't involve making money, spending money or having sex is pretty much outlawed. Books are burned, walks in the park are discouraged, and the only movies you watch are porn (essentially).

    The point I'm making, is that like Brave New World, people are being discouraged from being individuals, and more focused on being numbers. Non-Fiction is something we all can (and to some point, must) get behind, only because it is truth. Reality. It's hard, cold and not very comforting. It's not conducive for a very inspiring future. Eventually, our future will be determined by seeing what worked in the past and not taking a chance at something that could be great.
  • #104
    Our children are falling behind in every category except fatness, laziness and high confidence. They think they are awesome but they are not. You can see it easily by watching them enter the work force with such a sense of entitlement. "I deserve a raise because I show up almost every day" They have no sense of winning or losing, it's "I deserve a prize for trying". I support extending the school day to 7AM to 7PM Monday through Saturday. Require nutritious foods, 1 hour of exercise and some kind of job training every day.
  • #102
    Communist Takeover of America: Number 22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." (source: )

    By taking out creativity, it's easier to make the ants march in line. Of course, there is evidence of disappearing creativity just in the failure of new movies and slew of remakes being made. Whether that is due to conspiracy or the just plain falling apart and moral corruption America has waltzed into, isn't possible to be determined; and yet we as a people keep choosing this path. The only reward for a corrupt and wicked people is destruction. We deserve what we get.

    For everyone of the posts blasting the Bible, for 200 years nearly every person grew up learning it's Words and lived by them more or less, even if they didn't fully believe everything. And for that 200 years, for better or for worse, America prospered. Now today, most of you have no clue what is in it. You honestly think it is as simple as Daniel and the Lions Den?

    You know, today for family church, we read in the book of Judges. The people of Israel would heed God for a time, but after a few years, they would fall into wickedness. So God would allow a kingdom to conquer them. They would repent, and He would deliver them. But they would soon do it all over again, and God would allow another to conquer them, and it happened over, and over, and over, with the captivity getting longer and longer. You would think they would learn after awhile. You would think, America's children, who's ancestors studied such a Book, would make sure their children knew such a lesson. But this is the Land of the Free. You would think we would make very sure to protect that freedom, within, and without. But no one ever said the human race was smart. 70% of non-fiction, will definitely not make them smarter.

    "The only foundation for a useful education in a republic is to be laid in religion. Without this there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty, and liberty is the object and life of all republican governments." -Benjamin Rush (Signer of the Declaration of Independence)
  • #103
    Proverbs 9
    1 Wisdom has built her house;
    she has set up its seven pillars.
    2 She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine;
    she has also set her table.
    3 She has sent out her servants, and she calls
    from the highest point of the city,
    4 “Let all who are simple come to my house!”
    To those who have no sense she says,
    5 “Come, eat my food
    and drink the wine I have mixed.
    6 Leave your simple ways and you will live;
    walk in the way of insight.”

    7 Whoever corrects a mocker invites insults;
    whoever rebukes the wicked incurs abuse.
    8 Do not rebuke mockers or they will hate you;
    rebuke the wise and they will love you.
    9 Instruct the wise and they will be wiser still;
    teach the righteous and they will add to their learning.

    10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
    and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.
    11 For through wisdom your days will be many,
    and years will be added to your life.
    12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
    if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.
  • #86
    I have never once has occassion to use my time spent reading "Silas Mariner" nor "Hamlet". Useless. If kids want to read it they can read it on their own time. Maybe they would if we could figure out how to teach them to read again.
  • #78
    "Dreams from My Father" is non fiction. Just what our kids do not need. Barry on TV. Barry on the radio. Barry in stupid songs. And now Barry as a school course.
  • #64
    English class was a nightmare. My view of a book was never the same as the teachers and therefore wrong. If I had to write about a fictional book, I didn't read the book and wrote whatever the teacher said in class --not very creative.

    I avoided literary topics and wrote papers based factual inquiry. Since it wasn't the 100th paper on Hamlet, it was more interesting, less likely to be "wrong" and, actually, more creative. I have a BFA (bachelors in fine arts) and am an artist.

    While working on my masters degree, I rediscovered my passion for putting the facts together to prove my point of view. Facts do not stifle creativity. The opposite.

    We need people who can take the facts and come tofor a conclusion. Your feelings on Hamlet are nonessential. Problem solving is crucial
  • #52
    whats the point when they keep lowering the bar? go back to no special treatment no grading on curves and all get only what they earned,these things have caused nothing but failures. hold all to the same standard unless having a legit learning disability and those kids are in special edd.
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