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  • #17
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    Big brother is the same no matter if there is a (D) or (R) in front of their name....same as it ever was....power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  • #19
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    @SavageMazx We are now rapidly approaching the level of govt intrusion into our private lives of the USSR.
  • #43
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    @jessejaymes "We are now rapidly approaching the level of govt intrusion into our private lives of the USSR."
    Ironic isn't it? Spouting off about how certain legislation is making us Socialist and then supporting bills like Patriot and NDAA 12 that actually DO make us Socialist.
    The level of hypocrisy is mind boggling.
  • #55
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    This is a total lack of respect for the constitution and for the people that it was intended protect. We should have listened to the indians, they had this goverment figured out long before we did,
  • #13
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    "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
  • #26
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    @Heavy-Fed Are we talking about concrete, or about our safety? What exactly are you giving up? We are dealing with people who want you dead, and they are getting closer to their goals.
    9/11 had a profound and lasting effect on me. Maybe if it had a direct effect on you like it
    had on so many others, you wouldn't be equating safety with concrete. The only people
    who can protect your right to safety in your own country are the feds. What you may be
    upset about is abuse of the process. Me too, and I don't see an alternative.
  • #28
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    @Dan_Tien My view is that it is not temporary, and I would give up a little liberty for my safety. The bad guys will not be using muskets this time, the brilliant Ben Franklin's quote
    notwithstanding. I do not believe that he has faced a 9/11 or the hatred that religion has
    foisted on certain societies.
  • #32
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    @bobrob - "9/11 had a profound and lasting effect on me." Me too. I was quite close to the WTC that day and saw more than I care to think about, but allowing our government to invade our personal privacy under any circumstances without first proving just cause and obtaining a warrant is going the wrong way down a dark and scary road. If you really believe they want this in order to make us more secure, well ... there's this bridge I'd like to sell you, it's quite close to ground zero, too.
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  • #1
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    The difficulty level of spying increases dramatically when you let the person your spying on know you're doing it.

    Can you actually be a stalker if the person you're stalking knows?

    We tried the "Gentlemen don't open each others mail" school of intelligence gathering a long time ago.... it worked about as well as Neville Chamberlain negotiating peace treaties.

    National Security concerns are real, gathering information is a vital aspect. The Constitution protects CITIZENS of the United States; foreign nationals, especially those working against our interests aren't entitled to the same protection. So long as the intel is used properly, gathering it is acceptable.
  • #10
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    This bill does not protect American citizens who happen to be outside the borders of the United States when they make a call home.
  • #14
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    I don't think the govt or anybody else should have the power to wiretap a citizen without a warrant
  • #15
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    @MBernard Do you think that the government should have the right to wiretap non-citizens within our borders without a warrant? This bill seems to allow them more privacy than it does to citizens calling people outside the country. It is all rather moot, in my opinion, since the NSA has been routinely monitoring international calls for decades.
  • #25
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    Obtaining a warrant does not necessarily have to become readily apparent to those under surveillance. The wiretapping can still be accomplished clandestinely, there merely need be probable cause.
  • #38
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    FISA allows our government to spy on US citizens without probable cause or a warrant. I'd rather be attacked by terrorists than live under a totalitarian regime! Give me liberty or give me death!
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  • #74
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    well if i have to wait for the government, to protect me. then i am sure, they have a lot more body bags available for that. since according to the constitution, the first line of defense or offense, is not the government, the military, the courts, firemen or the police. though i am sure they might show up, after a lot of people are already dead or injured. as far as i am concerned, i am the first line of offense or defense. and the goverment saying they can keep me safe, is nothing but a cruel and unusual joke. they can't even keep our kids safe in schools, and tall buildings, more or less any of us in movie theaters. and i don't need the government, making it more difficult, keeping myself safe from them.
  • #70
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    No. This is another nail in the coffin reserved for the once loved "Freedom". Take a step back; this world is so inundated with people businesses and even government that are so interested in knowing exactly what you are doing at any given time. They want to know what clothes you wear, what food you eat, what shows you watch. They monitor how long you spend on the internet and what websites you visit. They know exactly how much you are willing to spend on that new dress, or how many cases of energy drinks you buy every month. Sure, you have privacy settings to curb what information is broadcast, but this is only usually after finding out it's been turned on full blast for a week. There is also no guarantee that they stop recording your info. It's difficult to participate in society WITHOUT giving up some personal info. Of course, we still willing give it out on sites like Facebook, Twitter, or even on credit card applications and reward cards.

    Even if you take all the steps to try and curb the seepage, there are still virii and spyware that install on your computer without your knowledge. Got Anti-virus? Remember that Norton pay hackers to make new virii. Who is to say that they don't already have it on your computer, but your favorite anti-virus is programmed BY THE DEVELOPERS to let those specific apps to slip through the cracks and collect away.

    But who are "They"? The ones who are getting your money, of course. Scam artists, ID thefts, big corps., even our very own USA government. Why are they doing this? So they can make ads and commercials and products targeted specifically TO YOU so you will buy yet another useless piece of technology, that new power drill or name brand clothing. Money, money, money.

    But before you go blaming the government for allowing this, or the big industries for being greedy, just look in the mirror. YOU wanted legislation like this because YOU didn't feel safe.
  • #66
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    "After all, there is a war on! But isn't there always a war on?" Harlan Ellison, "'Repent, Harlequin,' said the Tick Tock Man."
  • #64
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    Think I said last week that trust of either side of the gov't would be a mistake. We the people are just pawns, our gov't does not consider us equals and as long as they can keep us fighting each other, they will end America.
  • #62
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    What's wrong with some g'damned accountability?
    If they are spying appropriately and not abusing the privilege they should have nothing to fear from submitting a request to an impartial judge.
    What are they hiding? In the 1970s COINTELPRO was revealed when a group of raiders of unknown identity stole documents from an FBI office and leaked the documents to the media, proving that the government was actively spying on people illegally for political reasons and even sabotaging the efforts of activists.
    Why was that not our wakeup call? Why is this episode in history not even mentioned in most history textbooks? Why was there not a huge public outcry? Calls for resignation of all involved?
    We couldn't trust them then, we can not trust them now. We need more oversight and accountability, not less. Many of these people aren't concerned about saving us from terrorists, they are concerned with their own power and will direct wiretapping to the benefit of special interests they support and the detriment of those interests that they are against.
  • #59
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    I am Always concerned about giving the Feds more power over me, however, I also want my country and it's citizens from terrorist attacks like 911. The cost of freedom isn't free. Anyway,my grandmother told me long ago " don't ever say anything over the phone you don't want repeated"! We still had party line phones until I was five, and my grandmother was just too old to learn to trust.
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