• #13
    He stole the weapons, so making them tougher for him to buy would not have prevented this. Focus on why his mind broke and how we could have prevented this, that's the real issue. I know it's a harder problem to solve than attacking guns,; I guess guns are just an easier target to get a therapeutic sense of action taken.

    Until we address this guy's issues (whatever they were) and others like him this will continue to happen.
  • #21
    I think that it is reasonable to require owners of weapons like this to own and use gun safes. It has been my practice to keep guns of all types in a locked gun safe to prevent them from being stolen. The life you save may be your own.
  • #77
    @Dan_Tien I agree with locking them away if you won't need to use them as a best safety practice. Not sure how that would be enforced.

    The solution won't be just one action though, it needs to be addressed on multiple levels, the right to have personal security being one of them. Public security another. They say healthcare is a right, security is more of a right than healthcare is. A single trained, qualified, and empowered staff member could have prevented this from being as bad as it was.

    I have a lot of respect for Dawn Hochsprung the principal who unarmed, tried to stop this man. That took guts. Even a tazer could have stopped him and I bet she would have used it. This whole thing is still shocking to me, I guess I expect it from a twisted Taliban mind, but not middle class America... I really feel for the families, and wonder why as a nation we've gotten to this place.
  • #86
    Firearms are not the problem, their owners are. We need to teach people commonsense safety. Drivers certainly could use a more of this -- or it is just Boston?

    Seriously, who allows someone struggling with mental illness access to weapons? I think people who want a firearms should have them. But a stricter licensing procedure that stresses gun safety might make a difference.

    Yes, anyone who really wants a weapon can get one if they look hard enough, but lets not make it too easy. Below are some gun statistics

    Injury Facts from the National Safety Council :
    In 1999, 3,385 children ages 0-19 years were killed with a gun.
    214 unintentional
    1,078 suicides
    1,990 homicides
    83 for which the intent could not be determined
    20 due to legal intervention

    Of the total firearms-related deaths:
    73 were of children under five years old
    416 were children 5-14 years old
    2,896 were 15-19 years old
  • #88
    @FFX_VA Enforcement is the problem. It is nearly impossible to force people to do the right thing. I have been avoiding the onslaught of news about the shooting, so I had not heard about the principal. I respect that too. Never give up.
  • #94
    1st problem: someone struggling with mental illness had easy access to firearms.
    2nd problem: the shooter broke into a classroom through a window. Does anyone know if those windows with the wire mesh inside are more difficult to break? Is it prohibitively expensive to have windows that are more difficult to break.
    3rd problem: If classrooms had doors that lock from the inside, a shooter would not be able to access children in other classrooms.(not sure if this was a factor)

    Another question, say you are teaching a class, you have a weapon in a locked drawer or somewhere the children could not easily access. A shooter enters the room and starts rapidly firing. Would a weapon in the classroom make a difference?

    Do we really want our teachers to carry at all times?
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  • #5
    Gee, who would have thought....we raise our kids with violent games, mind altering drugs, and provide for easy access to assault rifles......then ask why??
  • #63
    We also for the most part raise them without fathers, hence the need for drugs to calm down little billy, then the "total transformation system" when little billy starts calling mom ugly names. I havnt been watching the 24/7 coverage of this, the media WHOREd have descended on conneticut, giving us up to the minute pictures of peoples grief, adding to it, but have you heard, where was this kids dad in all this? Was he on ritalin or something like I suspect?
  • #25
    The gun was stolen, does anybody really think a thief with murder on his mind is going baulk because he can't buy a gun at walmarts!!!?
    Hey, terrorist can't buy commercial 747's either! Does that mean we can stop security at airports? No way a terrorist could get a plane! It's illegal!! The planes didnt kill at 911, the gun didnt kill hear, it was used, if he'd ran his moms car into the school and killed those innocent children and adults would we be showing the make and model of the car and trying to take away the rights to own one?
    It's time we started blaming the person!! Not cause they had a bad morning, supper disagreed with him, had a bad hair day, whatever!! The sicko was an evil murderer!!! Period!!!
  • #32
    The gun was taken from the house he lived in. his mom was a gun nut "prepared for the worst" whatever that means....
  • #37
    I voted you up because it wasn't the "object", it was the idiot!
    But, as for the plane thing, with enough money and the advent of foreign airlines going out of business, buying a used 747 could be easier. But, flying that 747 into American airspace without notice would be difficult. Besides, security at airports are to "just" make us feel safer. Another one of those "if they want it done, it will eventually get done", as they only have time and want on their hands.
  • #144
    Well some blame should be assigned to the mom, who kept these guns accessable, knowing her mentally unbalanced son, who had been denied a gun permit, could get at them. 20 kids are dead. Why? Maybe if he'd shot the mom at home none of this would have happened.
  • #147
    @woodtick57 not prepared enough. Her preparation should have included wearing kevlar clothing and having a gun safe to which only she had the key. But you know how these gun nuts are...they need to take the gun now by prying it from her cold dead fingers...
  • #164
    I was just pointing out that the planes didnt kill at 911, I guess I needed to clarify that, like you said, objects can't be blamed for how idiots use them!
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  • #7
    I would like to know if the shooter was medicating. I suspect that another common denominator among spree shooters is a history of substance abuse, besides the similarity in weapons they use to kill people. It takes more than the availability of a weapon to create the intent to kill.
  • #14
    In a recent article I read, it referenced that most of these shooters embraced "alternate lifestyles". Without going into the meaning of alternate, I have to think the shooters showed signs of being somewhat mentally unbalanced before they went on their rampages.
  • #135
    The article is inaccurate, it said the gun makes the bullets explode. That is untrue, it is a type of ammo used that determines this. Self medicating, medicating by perscription, mentally unbalanced, these are all factors. The fact in this case is these were legally possessed weapons kept by an owner who irresponsibly kept them in her home knowing her mentally unbalanced son, who had been denied a gun permit could access then. Perhaps we need laws to prevent stupid people from owning guns.
  • #4
    Guns aren't the problem. Fifty years ago when we had to gun laws these things weren't happening. The problem is this country. If is sick and broken. Gay marriages, abortion, the Internet, social media. The USA has lost it's values!!!!
    Hey, let's make drugs illegal and get them off the streets???!!!
  • #231
    I agree.. If someone snaps and wants to kill people .. they will find a way. I imagine that back in the cave man days there were many killed by a rock to the
  • #3
    I have 2 AR's and their ammo, neither of them have ever killed anyone, guns and ammo do not kill.
    Psychos' do.
  • #100
    What do you use your AR's for? What do you shoot at? Just curious. I am pro 2nd amendment all the way, but have no idea what people would use such a rifle for...
  • #109
    Yea, and they use guns and ammo like that to do it. These children were gunned down, and gun nuts are still defending these weapons. When Benghazi attacks happened we heard about the victims for months from Republicans, because they thought it was beneficial to their politics. Now 20 children executed in America, and there seems to be more concern over defending the guns than there is mourning the victims. You have no reason to own a weapon like that. The American public is quickly coming to that conclusion. If they implement an assault weapons ban will you comply, or choose to be a criminal?
  • #115
    @DogLady_1 They are fun to shoot and ammo is dirt cheap. A lot of people use them just to go to the range and shoot. There's no harm in that. However, they are also incredibly common predator and hog hunting rifles. They tend to be shorter, which lends it to the thick brush and night hunting. Adjustable stocks are an ergonomic feature, same with pistol grips. They exists elsewhere on non-"assault" hunting guns. Especially turkey shotguns which requires you to hold the weapon at aim for extended periods (turkeys have incredibly keen eyesight and any movement has them fleeing.) The color black isn't the most practical color for hunting, but I don't think that makes the weapon deadlier. They come in hunting camo though.

    You have to remember, many military guns have found their way into hunting. Muskets were made to kill people first, but then used for hunting. Rifles, shotguns, handguns, all the same. Bullpups are becoming very popular in the military now, and you are also starting to see them in the hands of hunters. It's the natural progression.
  • #119
    @Troshie - Thanks for the info. I enjoy shooting, but I was raised with the notion that practice at the range improves your odds of killing supper. I can see where the AR's are useful for larger prey... I hope you also follow my dad's axiom: "If you kill it, you eat it."
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  • #1
    Ok I know we all love our guns as Americans, but should civilian even posses such a weapon? Looks like something you see in a battlefield.
  • #10
    Probably because you do see them on the battlefield. Right along side next to bolt action rifles, handguns, shotguns, etc. No matter how you try to demonize guns they're still simply just machines controlled by.... PEOPLE. I know lots of people with assault rifles, including myself, but somehow we manage to curb the urge to go gun people down at random.
  • #38
    The fact is, no matter what the gun "looks" like, it still only fires one shot per trigger pull, the same as any SEMI- auto rifle, pistol, or shotgun. And there are already millions of them out there in the hands of law abiding citizens. Take any gun and put a bunch of black military-looking plastic on it and it will look "mean". It has absolutely nothing to do with the functionality of the firearm. The fact is, the reason this murderous nut was able to kill so many people is because he did not meet ONE BIT of armed resistance. Schools have been made "gun free" zones, thus no "law abiding" citizen can carry a firearm there. But murderers are not, by definition, "law abiding citizens" what do they care about "gun free" zones, other than knowing no one will shoot back? The fact is, police rarely are in the "right place at the right time", they don't protect people as much as they investigate later. An armed adult at the school, trained in the handling of a firearms, might have stopped the killing in Sandy Hook. Better yet, let people KNOW that school employees are likely armed, rather than sitting ducks, and the crazies will quit choosing schools as easy targets.
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  • #178
    yesterday they said the 223 cal. was found in the killers car now they say it was used in the attack something seems fishy
  • #156
    the only reason the govt media is focusing on this rifle is because it fits their narative and agenda. you are just as dead if the weapon is a iron pipe or a .22 cal rifle. dead is dead. but this gun fits the bill to reinstate clintons assault ban so thats why the libs were trying to ressurrect the ban while the blood was still wet.
  • #112
    Just yesterday they were saying the shooter was found with two handguns, and the rifle was found in his mothers car. So, if it is true that most were killed using the rifle, the shooter must have stopped at some point, made a trip out to the car, and then returned.
    This makes a very good argument for having certain school administrators allowed a CCW in schools. It might have prevented more deaths.
  • #64
    I understand the murderer drove to the school. What type of car was it? It think that should be examined as well. Without that car, he would have been unable to get himself and his weapons there. It's high time we have that conversation!
  • #16
    This rifle is not the problem. It is not an "assault rifle." It is an "assault-style" rifle. It is not automatic but, as stated above, it is semi-automatic. It is an inanimate object that will remain whereever it is put until someone picks it up and uses it. The problem, in my opinion, is the clips allowed in these weapons. No one has any reason to use 20 round clips, period, no questions asked. That is stupid. There should be a limit on the number of rounds of ammunition that can bought at any one time and a limit as to how many rounds can be loaded into a firearm at any time.
  • #27
    Here here! The very first thing I thought when I saw the picture. The problem. But, can an owner of these type of weapons please tell me the "need" for a 30 round clip (besides "it's fun"). Please don't tell me for hunting because if you are that bad of a shot, then you need to put it down and back away!
  • #67
    @stepped_in_it -

    1. All firearms that fire as quickly as you can repeatedly pull the trigger are "semi automatic". This extends to multi round hunting rifles as well as hand-guns. Technically, a two round, single lever derringer is "semi-automatic".

    IMO - The term "semi automatic" is over used in the media to sound ominous.

    2. Not all firearms that are listed as "semi automatic" can be modified to full automatic.

    3. Most military style semi automatic rifles are sold to veterans or prior service who are comfortable with the style and handling. They are always sold with 10/20/30 round clips because those are the clips made for the fire-arm.

    4. Hunting? Only once have used a semi-automatice military style weapon in the pursuit of game. We had bobcats attacking the cattle on my cousins place near Hutchinson. I loaded up 20 rounds and went out with him. Use the right fire-arm for the situation. In that situation, big cats move quickly and run in a straight line in open fields. You don't have time to reload and must lead the target with multiple rounds watching not only your sight but the ground bursts to effectively hit the target.

    5. For target practice it is convenient not to stop and reload.

    6. I enjoy practicing with all my weapons, not for "fun", but it makes me happy to know that I, my wife, my children and grand children are proficient in the use of these tools.

    7. I would question the legitimacy of need for any city-dwelling civillian to own military style weapons that hold 10/20/30 rounds.
  • #90
    @CanisCanemEdit Ok, I already understand the "semi-auto" features of firearms (have and had a few myself). Double action versus single action. And also understand not all semis can be made into full auto (a semi auto pistol is a prime example). But the size of the clips bother me. Maybe 20-30+ round clips need to be also registered and can only be bought if the need can be shown (your example of the "ranch" is a good one). A "city" dweller does not have that problem (unless their "hunting" the elusive, fast running, dodging human being....joke) and should not be able to buy them. Still hard to control though. And, with a 6 shot revolver and some "quick loads", could still do major damage. "Dirty Harry" I'm not, but, the answer to this problem is a tough one....but elimination of guns is not the answer (as the want far exceeds the "nonavailability" of guns)
  • #114
    @stepped_in_it - I am all in favor of licensing and registering, unlike some of the paranoids I know that insist the government will round us up.

    IMO - We have raised a generation of children who also raise children. These kids are used to Reset, Rewind and Redo. They have no real concept of what "death" is.

    On the farm, we raise and eat our animals. We rarely give one a name because we were brought up not to play with our food.

    My youngest grandson (4 1/2) has been to the butcher barn and understands that what walks around the pasture and pen winds up on his plate.

    The cycle of life, as it were.

    However, city kids grow up with X-cubes and Nintendo machines and in their minds they are "killing" zombies and boogymen and humans...and when they run out of things to "kill" with a little palm sized controller, they hit the reset and start again.

    I don\t know what the answer is...but I think it starts at home with Mom and Dad.
  • #116
    @CanisCanemEdit Look, I understand semi-auto and auto. As a Marine vet and having hunted all my life I consider myself fairly knowledgable about firearms...but, I am no expert. And, make no mistake, if I have to I will shoot the ass off of anyone who decides to harm me, my family, or my property. All my firearms are legal and I follow the laws of the land as best I know how. And, people who "push the limits" with firearms do make me nervous because they threaten the rights of all of us.
    I have killed three bobcats in my with an old Winchester model 97 pump, and the other two while on a deer stand, one shot, one kill. I have one stalking rabbits and creeping around the bird feeders at my rural home now and, if the opportunity arises, I will pop him with a .22. I also shoot cayotes with a .22...when you see them in the East Texas woods they are usually close, unless in a pasture. I choose a Browning A-bolt 25-06 for deer hunting.
    Now, all of the above are my choices and mine alone...what another shooter uses does not bother me as long as it is legal. However, large clips are of no added value for any hunting as far as I am concerned. They are meant to "outshoot" someone else who is shooting at you...and it looks like some use them to help them kill more people faster.
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  • #2
    These types of guns are no more dangerous than any others. It's the shooter not the gun. The problem is the lack of parenting and lack of discipline. Kids are not connected with the real world. For those who wish to remove guns from our society I urge you to watch Red Dawn.
  • #8
    If you want me to watch a fictionalized movie about the invasion and conquest of America by Cuba in order to better understand the consequences of gun control then I urge you to watch "Horse Feathers".
  • #22
    @Dan_Tien before we take guns from responsible owners we should examine who these shooters are and what drives them. Almost all have been disaffected youth not responsible gun owners. As a society we never address the underlying causes we always seek control over cure. This has never worked. It has not worked for drugs, or any other problems in our society. If you think stopping the sale of guns will end violence in our country you are wrong. You can not compare our society to any other society on Earth. It's not the same. We are not civilized and we are a nation divided. We don't even have equality for all our citizens. Our politicians and police are corrupt. They are not prepared to protect us. In my neighborhood if your house is broken into the police don't even come. They tell you to file a report over the internet. They are too busy rousting gay bars and illegal gambling halls to protect the public.
  • #24
    "For those who wish to remove guns from our society I urge you to watch Red Dawn." >>>And there in lies the problems with society (or maybe younger society). It's a fictional movie. I know it. Many older know it. Many "younger" do not know it.(KNOW I WILL HEAR FROM THAT STATEMENT). They seem to also believe in the "zombie" Apocalypse. And Freddy, Jason....etc. Gaming doesn't help much either! It's fictional...understand. Try something else.....please.
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  • #267
    I carried an m-16 for 6 years I now own a smith and Wesson ar15 sport and a Bushmaster carbon 15 and others all for sport and if I must self-defense lets hope not. If people want to use these rifles for unlawful use they are going to find a way to get their hands on them there are to many of them out there already. The individual that used his vehicle to rundown people on the boardwalk anything can be used to kill . On a better note education and storage of the rifles in a safe keep ammo apart. Good luck to us all
  • #266
    Trying to keep someone from getting a gun is impossible. Trying to use prohibition will only result is that they will get a full auto version. We all know how well prohibition works. The reality is that you are more likely to get killed by our militarized police kicking in your door in the middle of the night looking for drugs than being killed by a crazed shooter. You are also more likely to be killed by a drunk driver and we know that no one wants to ban cars banned. It is not the gun that is the problem but them being in the hands of an unstable person. Society always seeks to find quick but ineffective way to deal with complex problems. When with this fascination with prohibition as a cure all end?
  • #255
    For what purpose would someone need a gun like that in their home. It's no good for hunting or fishing. That gun's only purpose is to shoot quickly and a lot with a fast reload. That gun looks like a killing machine waiting for the right person to pull the trigger,
  • #227
    idolitry and idolitors kill, not the guns. if you stop the idolitry, then this type of crime would diminish. all pestilence, plague, and famine, is the symptomatic results of idolitry. and mass murder, is the result of an increase in idolitry. and treating the symptions of idolitry, will never cure the idolitry causing those symptions.
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