• #5
    you can not legislate our country slips more into moral decay and totalitarianism these kind of events will become more prevalent thereby calling for more stringent laws in an desperate effort to curb said events which will inspire more lash outs at society in general,this is a vicious cycle that will not be stopped by new laws,i think our current administration even in some of their divisive actions foster such behavior
  • #11
    "you can not legislate our country slips more into moral decay and totalitarianism"

    Very true. We have forgotten the values that made us America. Now we are becoming a cesspool of immoral inhabitants. I hope enough people wake up before it's too late, but I doubt it.
  • #38
    @Neo_NtheMatrix You mean morals and ethics like in the 1800s, right. Like when Laura Ingalls Wilder was pioneering with her family. Ah... the good old days. Say, I don't suppose you ever read "Little Farmer Boy" about her husband's childhood in upstate New York? They had a new school teacher that year because the older students had beaten the last one to death, much to the amusement of their roughneck parents. The killing was accidental, of course. They had merely meant to thrash him within an inch of his life for the amusement value of it. They were caught off-guard when the new teacher turned out to be very good with a bullwhip and he lashed them right out of the schoolhouse.

    I could give you olther examples but Laura Ingalls Wilder was about as all-American and moral as it gets and she was writing for children. And even so, if you do read you can see that people haven't changed all that much. There are just more of us, that's all.
  • #63
    @Zazziness You mean the boys that Mrs. Wilder clearly demonstrated to be led by a boy whose father not only let him do what he wanted, but encouraged his boy to do it and bragged that he had beaten the teacher? Yes, we read too.

    There are more, alright. Now we just have a whole countryful of students who are ill-raised, rather than a select few.
  • #64
    @TeresaJ Oh, btw, they didn't kill the teachers. If they had, they would have been arrested for murder. Bully boys looking for someone to overpower is a sight different from a suicidal mental case shooting and murdering little children.
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  • #15
    People forget that the 2nd Amendment is there for the sake of defending yourself against the gov't as well as criminals as well as hunting. The first thing any effective totalitarian government does is disarm anyone they consider subversive to the cause. I.E. Nazi Germany, Soviet Union, China.
  • #61
    @Denizen_Kate how are you? That's how Karate was developed as well, the peasants in Japan were not allowed to carry weapons so they developed open handed fighting methods Karate means 'empty hand' alot of martial arts weapons were modified farm tools Nunchuk's were used to thresh wheat
  • #6
    Short of an elimination of all firearms in the US, I do not think further legislation will prevent these kinds of events from happening. In particular, I would look to Norway as an example of a country with tighter gun control laws and yet a place where a massacre (69 murders) of this scale occurred. As for the elimination of all firearms in the US, I continue to believe that that would be detrimental to our level of security and freedom.
  • #40
    Your post is good & it is one reason we were not attacted on the original 48 when japan hit us. Some japs were asked why & thier answer was BECAUSE the PEOPLE were armed
  • #45
    @DerivePI It's been a long time since I saw Dr. Strangelove. I have forgotten most of the scenes expect for Slim Pickens riding the H-bomb.
  • #62
    we've been playing genetic roulette with our crops and livestock for so long,just maybe it is starting to have an effect?
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  • #1
    This is a violent world, indeed. "Their feet are swift to shed blood. Misery and destruction are in their paths. And the way of peace they've not known."
  • #42
    When the mental hospitals were closed in the early 1980's , the mentally ill were left to fend for themselves. That
    is why homelessness increased and crime and incarcerations also increased. We are becoming a more violent
    society and the fact that more people are left without treatment will only get worse...Not only do I see it working
    w/ the mentally ill, I have two friends who have children who are mentally ill, one is severe bi-polar who has had
    seven DUI's endangering the lives of others, the other is a heroin addict who has had her mother fight with everyone to help get her help. She has attempted suicide, threatened her family, and has flat lined twice.

    We can continue to blame guns, mothers, violent games ( which I do feel desensitizes kids from violence )...but,
    still don't believe that a "normal" kid commits the acts of violence we are seeing only because he's played violent
    games. In the mental health field "evil" is not a word that's used, and yet the acts of violence we have seen can
    be called nothing but pure evil. Those who have lost touch w/ reality and are schizophrenic are capable of very
    violent acts of evil. Many are imprisoned, many are walking the streets and are ticking time bombs, but one
    thing is almost certain, there ARE signs. We have de funded mental health to bare bones, and we have spent
    millions of tax dollars on phones, and the silliest things one can think of to waste money on. We can remove all
    guns, the thugs will still have access to them...guns are not the problem, our broken mental health system is.
    Until we fix that, we will continue to see mass murders committed. Call it insanity or call it "evil', but, whatever
    label you attach to it really makes no difference. Normal people do not to these things, they just don't!
  • #55
    You and I are in full agreement on this issue, Mimi. When the Reagan administration pulled federal funding of state mental health institutions, those mental hospitals often opted to turn resident patients out into the streets. My close friend's aunt was in such an institution in Camarillo, CA. She was let go with no notification to her family. It took the family 18 months and thousands of dollars in private investigator fees to find her, scraggly and dirty, malnourished, wandering downtown San Francisco and babbling at the voices in her head. That is no way for an enlightened, civilized society to treat its people.

    My own health care only covers 10 visits per year with mental health professionals. More than that and you have to pay, and excuse me but 10 visits with a shrink ain't gonna fix anything. We need more options, more affordable coverage, and more research done into phenomena such as why so many teen boys and young men reach this pitch, and how we can help them before they get so far gone.
  • #58
    @Denizen_Kate I remember when Reagan closed the mental hospitals...I was a Dem at the time. Part of me
    felt it was good and that they should not have to be confined for years or for life... I was much younger then, and
    it was before I had worked in a mental health facility. Not everyone who commits murder is psychotic, or mentally
    ill. Every case is different, however,in the last several school shootings and the movie shooter, were all showing
    clear signs of psychosis prior to the killings. This was such a disturbing week-end for me, I haven't even felt like
    posting...Friday, I was at my nephews grade school, helping w/ breakfast and then they read to me, they are in
    kindergarten. How adorable they are!!! I left there about 9:45, went shopping and to lunch with a friend,. My
    husband called me on my way home and asked if I had watched the News, and then proceeded to tell me what
    he knew at that time. I think he said 18 kids were dead, he said , these were 5 and 6 yr. olds ! I came home and turned the news on, and I was sick, as I'm sure most people were. Who does this?! I can tell you no one who is
    "normal". Normal people may kill due to a love triangle, drug deal gone bad, or even a drunken brawl. "Normal" people do not kill 20 children and 6 teachers... All of these killers were showing very clear signs of serious mental
    illness, psychosis.. Most mentally ill people are harmless, very few actually kill, that said...these people were very
    dangerous and they were ignored. We definitely need more mental health facilities, more in depth psych evals,
    and more people who are showing signs of violence being probated to a locked facility, and kept there until they
    are well, and if they do not get well, then maybe for the rest of their lives. Our mental health care is as sick as the
    people who are falling through the cracks, and until we 'fix' that, these killings will continue. I can't look at the pics.
    of the kids, I just can't look at those beautiful faces and think of them being lifeless now. How tragic!!! How needless!!!

  • #30
    So I guess the question of why so many young men today are angry and violent is irrelevant to this particular topic?
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  • #14
    America was born by fighting tyranny. We have been fighting for our rights for over two hundred years. We do not want to be ruled by any one, thus a government of the people for the people. Professional politicians and Elitist have worked from our beginnings to gain control over us, as that is their nature. It is our nature to fight back, that's what we do. Of course many Americans have given up and gotten used to living as sheep, many haven't. This governor is a professional politician and is using this tragedy as means to make more sheep.
  • #51
    I prefer to cut the governor a little slack here. He's probably still in shock. Let him say whatever is on his mind and in his heart, no recriminations or throwing it in his face later.
  • #60
    @Denizen_Kate I wish I could cut him some slack. To me a thief is a thief is a thief. The professional politician is no better than the petty burglar or shoplifter. I can't bring myself to trust them, I won't trust them.....screw me once_ shame on you, screw me twice_ shame on me... It doesn't take me being screwed a trillion times before I know what I'm dealing with.
  • #9
    We all are so eager to push away people who aren't normal, or we tell them to get on meds, or some other "solution" so we dont have to deal with it. We don't want to solve the problem, just cure the symptoms. If we stop looking at these kinds of people with such disdain and angst and accept them for who they are and LISTEN to them and what they have to say, then maybe we won't have these outbursts all the time.
  • #8
    There is only one way to tone down the violence that is happening in our society. I will say it, even though I will be ridiculed by more than a few posters for my convictions.

    We have to get back to a family centered society focused on simple living. This rat race far too many people live, this keeping up with the Jones, this fast paced society that leaves no room to consider people and for parents to simply be parents and be there for their children are the things that are destroying our society.

    I don't have a 60" flat screen TV, I don't own an iPad, I don't drive a $40K car, and I don't have a lot of the modern day conveniences liberals say are a must to survive. What I do have is a wonderful woman who has stood by my side for the last 20 years, two beautiful precious sons, and a wonderful family and community in which I live. These are the things that are important. People are important. Until we get back to that type of society, where every child can come home to a mother and a father, we will unfortunately continue to see this kind of suffering.

    The Bible foretells these events. The hearts the fathers will turn from their children and then the hearts of the children will turn from their fathers.
  • #12
    The thing is, we can't go back. Yes, it does seem like an ideal way to handle this, but not realistic. Lots of things have changed over the years to just simply roll back the clock and start over. What we CAN do is roll with the changes, and adapt to the situation and make the absolute best of it.
  • #20
    Do you believe in capitalism? Are you concerned about our economic future? Yours is a prescription for a massive collapse of our economic engine. Your vision is just, but absolutely incompatible with the U.S. remaining a world power.
  • #24
    Not buying it. There has been untold amounts of violence as far back as history has been recorded. The only difference in which we kill each other now is the means we carry it out by. Idiots have been predicting the end times my entire life, saying its just around the corner. Sure someday somebody may get it right but it'll only be by coincidence and then at that point who gives a shit.
  • #50
    Neo, I'm sure that's a nice dream, but once released, you can't stuff the genie back into the lamp, you can't unopen Pandora's box, you can unsee or unsay something that has already happened, etc etc etc. Going back is not possible. A way forward must be found.
  • #66
    How can you believe such beautiful things and still honestly believe that guns are the answer . I had an instructor once he picked up a rifle and said this is a rifle it is for killing people and that is all its for. Really look into it less guns would make your country a better place for your children.
  • #77
    The problem isn't guns or mental health, in general terms, it is the lifestyle that killers live. Instead of taking something away, we should be facilitating the presence of opportunity for those who otherwise would be exploring violent means of creating beneficial lifestyles for themselves and their families. Not to discount the sadness of Newtown, but most criminals that commit gun crimes are disadvantaged. We need to address the larger issue of the availability of legitimate employment for people who may be at risk of committing such crimes.

    Indeed, this is a touchy and controversial subject, but it must be address. Disadvantage people need to be provided an environment where they can succeed in life, and they also need to take responsibility for their neighborhoods and the state that they're in.
  • #74
    I didn't vote on any of these things because I don't believe there is one simple answer.

    While we can and maybe should tighten some gun laws and while we most definitely need more availability to mental health, I think the real answer has to come from within us all. The Connecticut governor says the US is a violent society as if he's telling us the sky is blue. As if that's just the way it is.

    No. I don't believe that's just the way it is. I believe this can be changed, but it will have to be changed from the inside. We have to change our way of thinking. We have to stop glorifying and patronizing violence, and that includes war and 24 hour news. We have to stop seeing everyone and everything as a potential enemy. We have to learn to get along. We have to close the divide that has ripped our nation apart. We have to lower our levels of anger and frustration.

    We have an entire generation of young people who have been raised on 24 hour news and hateful political pundits and have known nothing but war their entire lives. They been raised on paranoia and fear. More is expected of them, yet there are far fewer opportunities for success. Everything from home life to college to jobs to relationships to the world around them has become increasingly more difficult and stressful. They go to school under tight security, often with metal detectors and police officers. They live in homes where parents drink and drug and fight and have lovers revolving in and out. Or they live in homes where parents sit and discuss all the world's problems, including their personal beliefs on everything imaginable.

    Childhood innocence is fleeting, at best. We adults have created the world WE wanted, without ever taking our children into consideration. Now we're reaping what we've sown.
  • #78
    Amen to most of what you posted here. I made a similar post about how we have to get back to a world that is centered around family and not material possessions. As expected, I was ridiculed by those who call themselves the "enlightened" progressives. We need a slower time, a time when a child could come home to a mother and a father, not a baby momma and a welfare check. We need time to meditate. We need a world that is more conservative and traditional. Many hate what I say, but they can't disprove that the more liberal our society has become, the more angry and violent (and less prosperous) it has become. Anyhow, good post.
  • #69
    Also, this is an outrageous statement on the part of this governor. America is not "a particularly violent society". I gurantee you, our per capita murder rate is lower then 90% of other countries, and a lot lower then most.
  • #68
    They should tax people less so they can open up mental health institutions and nonprofits. And then they should also put at least somebody trained with a gun on school campuses, and maybe a trained teacher or two with concealed carry.
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