• #1
    We're raising the debt limit. That's a given. But I've written my reps and will continue to pester them demanding responsible spending. The fiscal cliff deal disgusts me. As does the crap loaded into Sandy relief. I encourage everyone to bug the hell out of their reps too. We need to demand better from our public servants!
  • #26
    If you don't bitch to your elected representatives you give up the right to bitch about the government. I keep two Senators and one Congressman on speed dial.
  • #47

    you folks should try envelopes of large, unmarked bills. remember, it's the thought that counts...
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  • #7
    This is the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard. Let's recap shall we? Those of you that have an attention span of more than a drunk lying in an alley? The last time the debt limit was raised there was a ton of caterwauling about "cutting spending and getting the fiscal ducks lined up" by the GOP. The Fiscal cliff was created by the GOP and the Dems alike as a compromise to raise the debt. And in exchange the govt would go to work to find substantial spending cuts in govt and since everyone got caught snickering, belly laughing and rolling in the aisles laughing at the idea of government cutting spending, they said "no really, we mean it" and here's the proof. If we don't do it, then there is a fiscal cliff that will automatically kick in and do if for us.

    So what happened? They turned their own bill into a crisis. NO WE CAN'T GO OFF THE CLIFF!!! HELL NO!!! IT'S CRAZY!! IT'S A DISASTER!!! The same bill THEY wrote and passed to ensure govt cuts in spending.

    And now here we go again. Oh by the way? They tacked on about a trillion in pork barrel spending when they passed the bill to avert the fiscal cliff. By both parties. You people are idiots if you think either party has the slightest intention of being responsible to the Citizens of America that make under the amount of 10 million a year.
  • #9
    Ironic, I thought the lack of prosecution for the Wall Streeters was the biggest load of crap ever...
  • #11
    "You people are idiots if you think either party has the slightest intention of being responsible to the Citizens of America that make under the amount of 10 million a year."
    Here here!! Don't vote for the incumbent, demand term limits and no more benefits after leaving "public" service.
  • #14
    @stepped_in_it Well the termlimits are cuitting off your nose to spite your face kinda deal. Why get rid of any good reps you might get.

    besides, if the only professionals in gov't are the military and intelligence committee people, man, that makes my tin foil hat itch just thinkin' about it...
  • #21
    @woodtick57 Same can be said about the president. I know America is afraid of a "king", but, with the branches of government that would not happen unless this "king" was trying to do away with these branches.
    To "keep my tin foil hat" from itching, name some "life long" civil servants that have remained true to serving the American public and have not strayed off to full fill their own agenda? I know I'm asking a lot, but, out of 587 members (senate/congress/president/VP) this should be an easy task. Presently I can't think of any who "remained true to serving the American public " (recent Hurr. Sandy bill a prime example!)
  • #31
    @stepped_in_it We have had many in MN. Dave Durenburger was a great servant of his district. the Tea party one timer that took his seat was shown the door in a hurry as he WAS not serving the districts' best interest.

    Mr. Kline Mn would also be in this category, thought not for so long.

    i thought Dr. Ryan was all teh rage as per people serving the people?

    Ted kennedy could have easily just sat back and drunk his life an money away, he actually served because he felt the need and desire to.

    Zero toleranmce rules are for those with zero intelligence...
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  • #12
    We are forgetting that America voted for irresponsible spending, borrowing and taxation. The debt will rise...significantly, as will (have) taxes and spending. That's just how it is when the takers outvote the contributors.

    It's all part of the long, slow decline that happens with every democracy sooner or later. All Republicans can do at this point is slow the descent.
  • #17
    Once again, you are starting from the false premiose that people who vote democratic are more takers than those that vote republican, when in the real world it is split pretty evenly, isn't it?
  • #23
    @woodtick57 If so, Obumble would not have won.

    The desire of the electorate is clear: More spending. More borrowing. More taxes.

    Okay. Here it comes.
  • #35

    sure he would have and did. the half of the takers that vote republican did so. don't you remember the vote count totals? it wasn't that long ago...
  • #83
    @woodtick57 Actually if you look at the areas most of the public assistance money is spent you will see that it goes to the inner cities. If you look at the total votes by precinct you will see that the inner cities carried Obama to victory. Even in states that always vote democrat if you look at the precinct results you will see that the rural areas voted republican in many precincts and the cities voted democrat. I don't believe in coincidence. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck I assume it is a duck not a dog. Those 2 statistics are enough proof to me that there is some truth to the assertion that the takers outvoted the contributors.
  • #3
    The debt ceiling thing is a sideshow. It has to be done, and it will be done.
    But that doesn't mean that the budget should not be balanced.
    Before this fiscal mess is solved, we will have raised taxes, cut spending, and agree on a bipartisan basis to continue on a path of fiscal responsibility until the debt is reduced to about a quarter of what it is now.
    In order to do that, the extreme factions of both parties will have to be marginalized and then neutralized.
  • #69
    @armed_liberal That may seem correct in the short term, especially from the perspective of current events, but the game is in the early stages, and the outcome is not likely to be the demise of the party.
    This has happened before, in the era of Goldwater.
  • #70
    @armed_liberal And speaking of goldwater, there is this -
    By the 1980s, the increasing influence of the Christian right on the Republican Party so conflicted with Goldwater's libertarian views that he became a vocal opponent of the religious right on issues such as abortion, gay rights and the role of religion in public life. On the floor of the Senate he announced, "I am frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,''B,''C,' and 'D'.... I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their convictions to all Americans in the name of conservatism."
    read the rest of it...
  • #13
    The people are sick and tired of the Republicans using the debt limit as a bargaining chip. ost of us of tired of our economy being held hostage by the Tea Party branch of the Republican Party.The majority of our debt was caused by the Republicans' obsession with trying to defund our government. Yes, they are trying to defund our government by constantly demonizing taxes. Taxes are a necessary part of any government. The GOP red states have played every dirty card they havd including trying to secede from our nation. I have a suggestion instead of trying to secede how about you just LEAVE the good ole USA and find yourselves a small govenment, no taxation, theological country far, far away from us Americans!
  • #19
    Wow, are you lost or what? Do you understand the simple notion of debt? Spending more than you bring in? What, are you getting Government assistance or one of the 20% who call themselves Liberals. In four years Obama has run up debt twice as fast as Bush did in 8 years. He is an activist Socialist who will do everything in his power to grow our Government to a size not sustainable and then as in the last election will have a majority of Americans taking charity from tax payers which guarantees a Democrat will always get elected. It is truly sickening watching the Democrat party freely choose to bankrupt this nation all for the sake of getting elected. Are you one of the millions of Americans who have no shame and proudly run down to the social services to grab a free ride on the back of tax payers?
  • #28
    @commonsense51 A wife walks into the living room where her husband's friends are watching the Superbowl. "Hey," she says to them, "This Superbowl party cost us $50 for the ribs,$40 for the burgers,$30 for the chips and dips, and $150 for all the booze. So pull out your wallets and chip in to pay for all this." "WHAAAAAAT????!!!!" Scream the men. "You tax-crazy socialist!!!!!"
  • #34
    @NormalFlora Maybe you have missed the last 40 years or are too young to know better. I have heard this same rhetoric from Democrats my entire life. Every time they raised taxes they said trust us we will cut spending and address the debt. THEY NEVER HAVE!!!!!! I for one am not brain dead to the point of swallowing that garbage again. Our liar and chief told the GOP last time that if they passed the debt limit, he would cut spending. HE DID NOT! He is absolutely the worst liar this nation has ever elected. No, I will not believe one word from any politician. They must make iron clad budget cuts in spending across the board.(that was what Mc'cain wanted to do but Obama supporters wanted their free Government subsidies). What don't you get about our Government? They are addicted to spending for sake of getting elected by the groups they give money to. Why are so many people like you ready to give these idiots more of our hard earned money? They will not use the money to cut the debt. They never have. The only answer I can see is that you are one of the millions running to the tax payers for charity to get free college, free housing subsidies, food stamps, etc. We are spending 600 billion a year on the interest from the 16 trillion debt and you bring up everyone chipping in to pay for super bowl food? There is not enough money in our nation to pay that debt with tax increases. WAKE UP! WE MUST CUT SPENDING and the GOP along with the tea party know this.
  • #84
    @NormalFlora Pretty close analogy but I think you missed it by a little. Try it this way. A guy and his friends decide to have a super bowl party. They all decide to eat before it starts to save a little money and to bring their own beer. Around half time the wife comes in from the store and says "Hey I just bought all of this food and beer and it cost $270 you all need to pull out your wallets and pay for it. Oh and by the way I saw my friend Sally at the store and she didn't have enough money to buy food and beer for her husband and friends to have a super bowl party so I bought her $270 in food and beer so you need to cover that also". The guys look at her and tell her she's lost it and there is no way they will pay for any of it so she pulls out a gun and forces each man to pay. As they pay she realizes that half of them quit school before graduating and work at Mcdonalds so they are broke. The other half went to college and after graduating started out at the bottom but worked their way up and now make a good salary so she takes half of their money and gives it to the first group. After the super bowl is over she realizes she didn't keep any to replace what she spent on food and beer and now doesn't have enough money to pay the power bill and mortgage so she goes to the bank and takes out a loan to pay her bills. She then realizes that the Daytona 500 is next week and does the same thing with the money she just borrowed and subsequently has to borrow more the next week. And the cycle continues.
  • #91
    @nomocrap I agree. People no longer live within their means because they see Government as their backstop. They live it up, buying nice cell phones, cars, vacations and when that rainy day comes, they run down to the nearest social service office to ride the back of all the tax payers who actually went without and saved money for that rainy day. These responsible tax payers who never ask for charity see this over and over and start asking, why am I killing myself just so irresponsible dead beats can use me. This is why all Socialist nations have high unemployment. People finally give up and start riding the Government. The final result is default.
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  • #54
    51% of the people who care enough to vote want bigger government and don't care how much it cost to get it, let the next generation worry about it is their thoughts, they have the power so yes, we will go deeper into debt in two months
  • #16
    Are so many Americans that totally stupid? WE ARE 16 TRILLION IN DEBT!!!!! If the people who voted for Obama can't understand simple math then they should stay home and let responsible people elect our politicians. If it were not for the Liberal partisan media supporting Obama every step of the way, Obama and the Democrats would be the ones labeled obstructionists. Can Democrats understand that to blame the GOP for not allowing our Government to keep spending money it does not have, you must also blame the Democrats for not allowing spending cuts that our nation disparately needs. Only a complete idiot would just blame the one side. But there lies the power of a corrupt partisan press. When our free press takes sides, our nation will go in one direction and will no longer have the checks and balances we have always lived by. It sickens me to see our Government run by people who want free handouts. It is truly the death of this great nation. People who elected Obama are traitors in my book.
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  • #4
    We are in a mess there is no doubt. Holding the country hostage will cost jobs, growth and tank our investments. Frankly my 401k is still recovering from the previous meltdowns and as I am unlikely to get social security I don't want to see that. Congress needs to do more than bicker and come up with a plan. I assume that congress has no problem borrowing money to pay their salaries, pensions and benefits.
  • #49
    If they start any nonesense the administration could mobalize wall street and the business community to pressure repubs. If that doesn't work he can raise the ceiling using the 14th amendment and let the courts decide.

    but the best approach politically is to let them hold this back, sit back and watch as they get voted out in 2014. I root for the tea party for just that reason.
  • #93
    The Quote of the Decade:
    "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America 's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the US Government cannot pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. Increasing America 's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that,'the buck stops here.' Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
    ~ Senator Barack H. Obama, March 2006
    Pass it on 'til eternity...
  • #92
    I do suspect many of the Republicans who caved in Fiscal Cliff Part 1 (including my RINO rep...noting that for 2014 and if I decide even vote to be honest) will also cave in Fiscal Cliff Part 2: The Revenge of Spending. I partially agree with the guy on the GOP backed into a corner but two things: the GOP is finished as a nation party, and two, they put themselves in that corner because they helped Clinton repeal Glass-Steagall.

    Welcome to the one party state, led by socialists and their hero, Comrade Soetoro.
  • #90
    If the GOP would come up w/ a plan for those cuts I'm sure they can figure it out. It seems the only idea they have though is to get rid of Medicare for the next generation and mediocre cuts to the few programs they don't like. I'd like to see what ideas they bring to the table as to how the budget should be cut and then see some actual NEGOTIATIONS. It's like these people have never negotiated before.
  • #81
    The debt ceiling will increase, but no way any Democrats will agree to any meaningful spending cuts. The only way we will get spending cuts is to vote the liberal democratic spenders out of office. Obama just increased the debt by another $3.6T with the last round. That puts the 10 year projection of our deficit at $24T.(Some Democrats actually bad-mouthed Bush for the debt being $10T at the end of his presidency.) I predict that before the next 4 years is through, Obama has successfully pushed the debt to $24T by 2016, and we will see our very first $2T deficit year. As a reminder, before Obama the largest single deficit was something between $400B and $500B. It is sad that the liberal Democrats don't see any problems at all coming to America as a result. Don't believe me that there will be consequences? Just wait and see.
  • #77
    The GOP fell for the old bait and switch the spendocrates win using crisis. Wasn't the idea to balance the buget, so why was there a 4 trillion dollar increase in spending. Grow a back bone GOP and let us go off the cliff. Its going to hurt in the short term, but it better than given Obama an unlimited credit card.
  • #63
    I think the GOP has a lot of leverage here. Younge people got Obama into office. It would be immoral for him not to make a plan that will reverse the course we're on toward financial ruin for younger people.
  • #61
    Trusting Congress to fix the National Debt problem is like putting the Hole in the
    Wall Gang in charge of Wells Fargo.
  • #55
    Holding cards? LOL, the whole economy was built on a house of cards. The ONLY way i see to get out of this is to, audit the FED, put bankers in jail like Iceland, force them to have a debt jubilee. That, or accept the slavery for you, and your progeny.
  • #57
    the Iceland banks walked away from $8billion in debts to the people who had money in their banks....

    is that what you suggest the Us banks should have done? what about the FDIC?
  • #58
    @woodtick57 What else is there to do, pay it off? We'll NEVER pay off that debt, not even the interest. FDIC? It's another house of cards. We're living in a ghost world if we think otherwise. We're living on worthless fiat currency, and just about all our assets are owned by foreign banks. Why can we get an audit of our gold reserves?
    FDIC Broke and Selling Real Estate: How $13 Trillion in Assets is Protected by no Deposit Insurance Fund. FDIC Selling Properties to Replenish Fund and Collecting Early Fees. .
  • #62
    @SmedleyButler Huh? if we had bailed on the debt owed by the US banks, the FDIC would have had to cover it. how much would that have cost the US taxpayers?

    You don't htink that for every dollar yu have in the bank, there is a sme dollar in the FDIC to back it up, do you?
  • #74
    @woodtick57 Who knows, or trusts the FDIC for that matter. Nobody can make heads or tail of anything today. We have all these Harvard economists predicting economic outcomes, and strategies on how to manipulate the economy into recovery. So far they've proven themselves either part of a failed self important entitled class, or criminals covering for their boss's crimes and screw ups.
  • #52
    If we crash the economy now, that means we get started four years earlier to clean the mess up instead of prolonging an even bigger mess. It has to happen, the big question is when? Why screw up the tomorrows when toay cost less?
  • #29
    One thing I notice is that just about the only time you hear any common sense out of a republican politician is after they retire or get voted out. Of course the dems hold the upper hand. The GOP can either attempt to crash the economy like they are threatening to do or put America first and work with the President and democrats. Guess which choice is more likely?
  • #64
    The Republicans wouldn't be putting today's America first by doing that, true, but they would be putting America in 2023 first. Who do you care about more, you or your children? If the answer is you, sure, support the Democrats, but if not, the the Republicans hold a far better fiscal future for this nation.
  • #65
    @Politicskid Show me some evidence that the GOP does better for the economy please. The stock market performs better under Democratic Presidents, the country grew the middle class best between 1932 at the depth of the depression and 1980 a period of 48 years where we only had 1 conservative republican President (Nixon). Since Reagan we grew best under Clinton and Obama than we did under Reagan/Bush I and Bush the moron. So show me some hard evidence that the GOP does better.
  • #100
    @PNWest It's not a matter of Reagan Republicans versus Kennedy's Reagan Republicans versus Obama Democrats, who are the most left leftists in American history. It's different parties then their were a decade ago.

    How about you take a good hard look at those unemployment figures over the last 45 years, instead of since Lincoln?
  • #101
    @Politicskid Let me translate: "Oh Mr. PNWest I looked it up and it turns out that the stock market has done much better under Democratic Presidents than it does under republican ones. You were right - as usual. Oh by the way unemployment numbers are very high right now. Why is that?"

    Well kid - the reason unemployment numbers are so bad is because the republicans blocked pretty much everything that Obama was trying to do since 2010 when they made their number 1 goal to make Obama a one term president. We saw how well that republican plan worked. Unemployment numbers now are about the same as they were when Obama first took office 7.8% give or take. They would be lower had congress worked with him instead of against him.

    The republican record:
    Tax companies that ship jobs overseas – BLOCKED
    The Dream Act – BLOCKED
    Political Ad disclosure Bill – BLOCKED 2x
    Small Business Jobs Act – BLOCKED 2x
    Anti- Rape Amendment – BLOCKED
    Benefits for Homeless Veterans – BLOCKED
    Affordable Healthcare for America – Voted 33x to Repeal
    Healthcare for the 9/11 First Responders – BLOCKED
    The Jobs Bill – BLOCKED
    Wall Street Reform – BLOCKED
    Oil Spill Liability – BLOCKED
    Immigration Reform – BLOCKED
    Fair Pay Act of 2009 – BLOCKED and DEFEATED
    Unemployment Extension Bill – BLOCKED

    All this while voting 33 times to repeal Obamacare. No wonder cockroaches have a higher approval rating than congress.
  • #102
    @PNWest All of those bills were filled with liberal rubbish, if you'd like to pick one for me to debate you on, go right ahead.
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