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  • #11
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    Having a gas well on my property for more than 30 years which was fracked ... all I can say is ... enjoy not being able to drink your well water anymore and the run-off & oil spill pollution that kills your cattle and fish located near the well site. There's other things that they do which is a real threat to your health involving benzene ... but hey ... if it creates more jobs and makes some out-of-state CEO richer ... go for it ... wouldn't want to stand in the way of progress huh? Oh, enjoy being ripped off because these natural gas companies are thieves when it comes to paying ... I love getting a check in the mail for less than the stamp on the envelope knowing they've trucked out several tankers full of oil! Hope they frack the hell out of New York ... then you'll understand why other states put a stop to the practice in their states years ago!
  • #2
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    I know a few people who have leased to frack drillers. Two things the land owner needs to watch is the care with which the fracking fluids are loaded and unloaded and the casing depth. When these are done right fracking is a boon to all involved.
  • #46
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    Fracking in and of itself is a inexact science. They have zero control over whether or not the fracture will release into the water table or the air. There are areas in the country where natural gas bubbles from streams and people literally live in 24/7 poisonous gasses. There is no safe way to control this from not happening. Sure, there are places where this hasn't happened, but it's by pure luck because like I said before, it's an inexact science.
  • #62
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    @AceLuby

    I suspect that fracking is not as inexact as you believe. Fracking has been done for over fifty years now. What has lead to the current boom are the advances in directional drilling. As for the process, it isn't till several sample wells (called soil borings) are drilled and the core samples analyzed that the decision whether to proceed with the fracking is made. While my company does not do fracking, we have installed and do maintain underground storage wells. During the exploration of the field, there were many soil borings done before enough data was gathered to make a decision. When the field was mapped, we knew exactly what we were doing. And there was a good sized safety margin set before we drilled the first real well. With what's at stake in a frack well, I expect the frack drillers are at least as thorough as what I've seen.
  • #63
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    @Thunderchicken Actually, I don't think it's as exact as you believe, my wife is a geologist. Yes, they try their best to control it, but not because of environmental issues though, it's because that lost gas is lost $$$. There is simply no way to tell how a solid piece of rock is going to crack and while they do their best to make a good guess, it's still an inexact science.
  • #67
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    @AceLuby - Yes, the very small non-zero possibility of failure. Don't get out of bed in the morning. Actually, you should drag your bed into the middle of a field because that non-zero might collapse your house. Of course that non-zero bolt of lightening might get you. Thinking of which, dragging your bed might cause you to non-zero your head onto a rock. Oh my...

    Now then, back to the world we live in. If we currently install wells with a safety factor of 6 and you want to discuss upping the factor to 8 or 10, we can talk. If you (or your wife) think additional testing needs to be provided prior to mining, I'll listen. I'm very interested in safely obtaining this resource.

    Food for thought - most structures are designed for a once every 300 year wind storm (hope your house isn't that old - TIC).
  • #76
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    @AceLuby

    Derive made the point I would have made quite well. Nothing in 100%, 100% of the time. As for your gas loss assertion, I'll add that EPA fines and lawsuits are enough to keep drillers in line. Although LUFG (Lost and Unaccounted For Gas) is a problem. It isn't that great till you get near the end of production. From what I've seen, that last bit of gas isn't worth the time and money to get at it.(Just my opinion)
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  • #10
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    New York state government should not be suprised at number of taxpayers fleeing the state. Here is an option they can use for a new energy source, more jobs, and additional revenue. With statists like Bloomberg and Cuomo in office, I doubt NY will embrace it.
  • #34
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    Watch how fast they leave when the Hudson River is polluted and most of the water in the state is unfit to drink or even bathe in.
  • #40
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    @Clarke12 It's the main source of water for NY City and New Jersey. It is polluted, but we can clean out the pollutants, you can't clean fracking waste water to make it drinkable and you can't clean out water polluted w/ natural gas. You can, however, light it on fire. The question is would you drink water you can light on fire?
  • #1
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    Ahh, PA. We led the charge into oil exploration and extraction and we'll continue with coal and natural gas. New York, you just sit back and relax.
  • #44
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    How many times do we get to hear "there is no proof that there are serious repercussions" for industries that damage the earth that we live on, only then to hear "Oops, guess we were wrong about that. Endeavor to persevere." Want to free us from dependence on foreign oil? Develop workable hydrogen fuel. Except that would be the end of the oil and gas industry, wouldn't it?
  • #89
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    @cleverusername Unlike yours, my computer does not run on gasoline. Electricity in the Pacific Northwest is created with hydroelectric power, although many "liberals" want to blow up every dam in order to save the salmon so that they can become extinct because of fishing trawlers instead. Other than that, you know nothing about what I consume or what measures I take to conserve, reduce and recycle, but you don't need to know that to be a smartass, do you?
  • #114
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    @Dan_Tien You are right and I apologize to you. I was having a bad day yesterday and while no excuse it is what it is. I agree though that we need to press the government and corporations and ourselves to find different means.
  • #32
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    OMG. That was the most disgustingly biased opening sentence I have ever read in a professional article. Then I looked to see who wrote it. Gee, a real shocker. Propaganda from an oil company.
  • #22
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    Energy will mean nothing if there is no clean water. When we go to other planets and the moon we don't look for natural gas or oil deposits, we look for water and ice because that's what brings life. Fracking not only pollutes the ground water through the release of the gasses into the water table, but also pollutes the millions of gallons of water needed for the entire fracking process. This runoff is never cleaned and typically gets into the water table as well. The question then becomes, are you willing to sacrifice your children and grandchildren's right to life and clean water so that we have economic stability now. Anyone who cares about saddling our children with debt should be equally concerned with saddling our children w/ these non-reversible environmental hazards.
  • #70
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    where do you live? Do you have power? where does that power come from? how do you get to the grocery store? how do you eat?
    gimme a break....
  • #83
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    @cleverusername Who cares about any of that if there isn't water, the source of LIFE? There's a reason we look for ice and not oil/gas on mars.
  • #9
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    Well, this didn't help sell me on the argument, "they (environmentalists) assume that the oil industry is pursuing profit at the expense of environmental safety, but they're conveniently overlooking the fact that safe and "green" fracking practices, such as better methane capture, adoption of techniques that use less water, and recycling, can actually increase oil company profits."

    No word on how the author knows this or where a curious skeptic could learn more.
  • #15
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    Me either. I think "safe and green" fracking practices are a contradiction in terms...greed knows no bounds and cares less about the environmental and human toll.
  • #29
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    Lest I should be accused of anti-industry bias, let's say I'm suspicious of the oil industry for its past behavior: Exxon Valdez, Deepwater Horizon, etc.
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  • #7
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    I had a vision of oilfield boys in NYC... the Big Apple would never be the same. If any of y'all have seen The Cowboy Way, you know what I'm talking about...lol
  • #4
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    fracking should be banned everywhere. it pollutes the groundwater, and causes natural disasters. give it up and work on finding alternative energy sources.
  • #18
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    @woodtick57 oy yeah... and we certainly don't need it. what we need to do is to exploit things like wind, tide, surf for generation of electricity. you know, clean stuff. we also need to cut down drastically on our energy consumption.

    it's time to stop feeding the monster.
  • #19
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    @dances-weebles There have been very small earthquakes, that most people can't even feel in fracking areas....hard to call that a disaster in any sense.
  • #20
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    Isn't it funny how the people going insane with debt being left to our children don't mind them inheriting a planet unfit for civilization as we know it?
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  • #133
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    I have seen what happened with peoples water supply from gas leaking throug the concrete into are facets. Which causes a fire hazard and makes others sick from drinking in are homes. Plus the controversy s over them causing earthquakes.
  • #107
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    The head of the New York "family", Don Cuomo, isn't interested in affordable energy. He's much more interested in seizing firearms from his underlings. It's all part of the dog eat dog philosophy that La Cosa Nostra lives by.
  • #105
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    In answer to the thread starters' question, I'd have to say that the "holdup" is the very real concern over the very real potential of causing more earthquakes like those experienced all along the east coast after an attempt by companies to sink wells in the nearby area:

    http://www.wkyt.com/news/national/headlines/N...

    Which doesn't even touch on the documented occurrence of soil and ground water contamination caused by other efforts to install subterranean gas extraction wells through the process of "fracking".

    All in all when it comes down to it, the demonstrated threat to our personal well being in pursuing this resource in this fashion far outweighs whatever economical benefit we might stand to gain...We need to be smarter and a helluva lot more realistic in acknowledging the impact a catastrophe of this nature could have on our nation if we were to allow corporations to put their greed ahead of our safety.
  • #103
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    There is a way this can be done, both sides need to compromise. My husband is
    an environmental engineer. It can and should be done, we need the jobs and we need to be oil independent. Scare tactics on the Left, that's the reason for the
    hold up and then they'll whine about not having jobs, and so it goes...
  • #100
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    Look at all these idiots that want their drinking water to kill them and there houses shook to the foundations bc that's what fracking does America's busting out the seems with idiots
  • #79
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    The problem with fracking is that you can't undo it if something goes wrong.
    A polluted aquifer is forever.
    If I were a governor, I'd move slowly, and learn from others' mistakes.
  • #68
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    " New York put a moratorium on fracking in 2008 to give regulators time for gathering and studying data on the process"

    code for "I am not giving you my vote until you pay me off or not"
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