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  • #1
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    Is this the same 17% that said they'd quit if don't ask don't tell was repealed? BTW...did they leave as promised?
  • #72
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    @Ghost116
    I have, but that's not the point.

    Any girl in a combat MOS will have to be just as capable as any of the guys. Same physical standards, no free passes.

    I doubt you'll see many female 11Bs, but for a few who are motivated and can hack it, why not?
  • #76
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    @harold_lloyd I understand that point if view. What I'd like to see first is an all female combat unit. Avoid the pregnancies, relationships, sex, etc... I have no doubt some females can hack it. I'm worried about more than that. If all female units can take it, maybe try an integration. But social experiments do not belong on the front lines.
  • #80
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    @Ghost116
    That's the point, the experiment has already begun.

    How many women have been killed in combat in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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  • #44
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    I was in the army and I can totally agree with them. There complaints are valid. This IS going to be a problem.
  • #51
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    Have to ask, were you regular Army, or Airborne, etc? My first husband was Airborne, there were some gals in with him that made the rest of the guys look like rank amateurs. They were amazing.
  • #73
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    @thatgirl RA I'm not saying women can't fight. And there are some that can do the job. But the majority can't. A lot of them got pregnant and took a discharge. Even then they guys resented us. We took all the skate jobs. And did get preferential treatment. I'm being pretty harsh but I can never support anything that makes our soldiers job harder or weakens their combat effectiveness. This is a matter where being PC will get people killed. My husband was SF, a Sniper and lots of things he can't tell me about. Totally hard core. He has been there and done that. And he flat out told me that women in a combat infantry company would at the minimum be bad for morale. And he couldn't support it. But then again most men don't qualify for that job either. BUT he does agree that there are combat jobs that some women can do. We have to face it. We aren't the same. There things I am much better at than men and some things that are ladies only. Why shouldn't we leave combat to the men? I personally can't imagine anyone wanting to be 11bravo. It's a terrible job and I have total respect for anyone that's done it. I hope that somewhere in the pentagon someone is willing to look at this honestly without political correctness clouding their judgement.
  • #90
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    @thatgirl Augsburg Germany and got married transferred to Bragg to be near him and to finish my enlistment. Which didn't work out lol he stayed deployed nearly the entire time I was there.
  • #93
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    @NTBFW Ft Campbell (the azzhole of the world) to Mannheim, which I LOVED, didnt want to come back. Its tough, aint it? Have a good night, waiting for my husband to fly in tonight, we are having kids (goats, that is) in the next 48, need him here instead of FL, where he has been for the last month.
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  • #40
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    I would to, if the military needlessly put my life in danger just because they want to be politically correct then it time to find other employment.
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  • #177
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    @Hireman Well, thirty-four (34%) percent of the ladies are up to the challenge of combat, whereas a bunch of dudes are handing in their pink slips over it. You tell me who's tougher.
  • #204
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    @twinertia again, the same percent of women as men are willing to quit. Apples to apples, there's no difference.
  • #205
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    @Hireman Hardly! Twice the number of women are willing to go into combat as are willing to leave over it. The fact that ANY "men" are willing to leave at all proves that female Marines are tougher than male Marines .
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  • #126
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    The problem is, most of these decisions are made by civilians that have no military experience what-so-ever that acquiesce to 'feminist' groups that want it for others, but not for themselves. Socialization of the military doesn't work, if a country wants to keep it's combat mission at a peak performance

    The first thing that usually happens, they lower the standards for all to facilitate the combat roll of the female. The Israeli IDF have women in light combat rolls, not because of political correctness, but out of sheer necessity and survival due to their numbers in a sea of Jihadist that don't want peace, but want them dead.

    The Dutch military is a perfect example of socialization, they are the most inept and marginalized military on the face of the earth that couldn't fight their way out of powder room. Woman in the military is one thing, but not in 'infantry' combat rolls or other situations that might require them to face off with the enemy in close quarters -- a stupid idea that will get people killed unnecessarily, all for political correctness....
  • #174
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    Furthermore, the Military is not a Democracy!

    Equal Rights are subservient to the mission; the mission is accomplished by the best trained and QUALIFIED personnel, not by lowering the standards as they do with affirmative action -- And hopefully, not gleaned from a pool of politically correct wannabes that will end up getting themselves and others killed in the process. Folks who haven't served in Combat, let alone in the military wouldn't have a clue of what inhumane degradation that exist as a 'grunt' in the rice paddies of 'Nam, or in the bug infested Hot climes of the M.E.
    Seeing a war movie with ones girl friend on a Saturday night is one helluve poor substitute for the real thing!
  • #121
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    I'll bet. Months away from wifey, on patrol with some sultry night, a a hot women in this unit, covering him while takes a leak, and whisper's in his ear "now that really is a big dam deal."
    As the night grew warmer she removed her blouse, revealing her victory secret black ops bra...
  • #155
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    @thatgirl yea, despite my typos and failure to spell check i do a bit of writing, mostly policy and legal memoranda, some op eds, five or six incomplete books on my computer. My first stab at battlefeid erotica is is presently being reviewed by thatgirl on politix.com ...a big deal, in that i used to watch her show on tv.:)
  • #12
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    This is reminiscent of the uproar when President Truman integrated the armed forces. Vocal opposition came from his Secretary of the Army, Kenneth Royall, whose "trouble with civil rights officials stemmed from the fact that he alone in the Truman administration still clung publicly to the belief that segregation was not in itself discrimination, a belief shared by many of his fellow citizens. Royall was convinced that the separate but equal provisions of the Army's Gillem Board policy were right in as much as they did provide equal treatment and opportunity for the black minority. His opinion was reinforced by the continual assurances of his military subordinates that in open competition with white soldiers few Negroes would ever achieve a proportionate share of promotions and better occupations."
  • #36
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    I'm in the Marines currently and I work with women all the time there are a few hard workers and those I would take to combat with me but the others I would most defiantly not. You have to work with women in order to understand their combat mindset
  • #45
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    I don't have a problem with their mindset but I am weary of physical fitness levels. I retired from Army Infantry and I know male and females have different physical fitness test standards. I know in the Army if you took a male and female that did the same amount of push ups, sit ups and run the female would score about sixty points higher. My units minimum for up to e4 was a 240 score and e5 up was minimum 270. This did not distinguish between male or female. Now that women are allowed into a combat unit a woman could score 240 by a womans standards and she would barely pass to not at all if she were a man. My question is do you see this bias being a factor in unit readiness in combat units? Do you think the standards need to change when evaluating a pft? Just would like to get a Marines view on this. I know there will be some awesome women in a combat unit however it's the rest that have me leery. Also I knew some women that were at max for their weight to height standard and could barely squeeze into a uniform let alone into a hatch on a vehicle. Do you see body mass index being a problem for these women?
  • #50
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    @GunPolitics as of January 1, 2014 the Marine Corps is standardizing the physical fitness test(PFT) of course females will have lower pull-ups BUT the crunches and run will be the same
  • #52
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    @GunPolitics appreciate the response, this is pretty much how I and the vast majority of my retired and active friends feel about it also.
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  • #15
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    you know what they really wanted to say was they will quit if Hagel passes through the nomination process... they're just using the girls as an excuse ;-)
  • #34
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    @thejimbo I seriously doubt any of these grunts are concerned whether or not their female comrades see their peckers at some point.
  • #41
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    @bsking Believe it or not, the gals could give a damn less if they see some random guys pecker. Big damn deal.
  • #102
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    @bsking - I'm guessing that the term 'short arm' inspection will no longer be in use then. New ending for the term 'FNG' too.
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  • #5
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    wait a minute...forced to serve in combat INVOLUNTARILY...did I miss something? How exactly were you forced to join the MILITARY in the first place? So when the time comes for patrol do they line up and ask for volunteers now?
  • #19
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    @cleverusername That's what's confusing, at least to me it sounds like they are given a choice, they shouldn't be. They already volunteered to join the military. The equality door was open, they get sent where they are needed, combat zone or not. Seems as though this specific bit of equality should have come with a side of caveat emptor.
  • #29
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    @Real4WheelDrv I think it refers to the fact that some women don't want to serve in combat zones. Some women know they aren't equipped for it and don't want to ride on the equality train. The ones who are fighting for it aren't considering that there are some women who don't want things to change. I think this article is a good read, if you have time to look it over. I agree with you, they aren't forced to sign up in the first place. My husband is in a combat infantry unit and he doesn't want to allow women into his unit.

    http://www.mca-marines.org/gazette/article/ge...
  • #75
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    @AnnieO @Real4WheelDrv First off..Annie I have glanced over it and plan on giving it a good read thank you for the link. Until then i will hold off on comment on the broader issues.
    The way I see the involuntary combat thing right now with the new idea of female combat forces is as follows. Those current females who joined that are not combat ready, so to speak, I don't see them being sent into full combat unless they are needed which I don't see that occurring. Command wants the best troops for the job doing the actual combat so sending in females that are not up to par would only put others in harms way. So I don't think right now combat incapable women who joined have anything to worry about, unless again there is some sort of emergency situation and then it is their duty and they did know that coming in new rules or not. But they can be called upon and still have been taught the skills of everyday soldiers and keep a readiness in those standards for a reason.
  • #82
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    @cleverusername I agree. The marine that wrote the story even said it was ok for short term but not long term for women. I agree with that. Of course, in an emergency, all soldiers should be willing to do whatever is needed. My husband has the same fears that the marines had on the above post. He has seen a situation where a woman accused a man of sexual harassment when in fact, she was mad that he turned her down. Not all female soldiers are like that but it's a real fear for some men. My husband has also said that he wouldn't feel safe if he knew he had to count on a small woman to carry him off the field in full gear. I think that will be the main issue with all of this. Some women may be able to pass the tests but I'd guess the majority won't be able to. Just a guess though. My husband is hoping his unit will file for an exemption from allowing women to be in it. The majority of his unit are in agreement. I guess we will see how it all plays out.
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  • #217
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    Liberal utopia for them but what about the mission and strait male members? They will have men they are uncomfortable with in certain settings and women the the same for different reasons. you figure it out
  • #215
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    I personally wouldn't stay in either and now that woman are going in I won't be re-enlisting. There's to much of a threat of sexual harassment charges and other false accusations that will come from that. There's also the fact that many woman will be raped and left to die or have to go through that regardless. There's enough crap to deal with when your in the service why add more stress and aggravation to the already overwhelming load than has to be there.
  • #153
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    Just thought of something. The former Soviet Union's (Russia's) Red Army used WOMEN extensively in World War II (even as snipers-Lyudmilla Pavlichenko-309 kills) and since in combat. We should ASK THEM if they have any documented long-term statistics of how it worked out overall and if they still have women in combat arms.
  • #148
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    I would not want to be in country with a woman. It just goes against the grain. If I'm being shot at I want the INDIVIDUAL next to me to think exactly the way I do. I'm not sure if women can be trained to think that way.
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