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  • #3
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    There is no damn cracks to fall through. Government isn't the answer for anything so to suggest they ever fixed something and some how there's a damn crack in it is absured
  • #63
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    @PoliticalSpice if you believe anything the news has to say then maybe you've had to much marijuana. How could the neighbors know so much about him when he was a loner and patrolled his yard with a flash light and gun every night. The two descriptions contradict each other. Use your mind and think. You've been lied too for so long that its became your reality
  • #67
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    @TDriver04 You suggest one not believe anything they hear on the news. Sounds a bit paraniod to me. If a neighbor patrols their yard with a gun and flashlight people tend to notice that type of thing. It said he was a loner, not that he never spoke to anyone.

    You say I've been lied to and that has become my reality? Yet you suggest one not beleive anything reported on the news and use their mind to think. Think about what, paraniod delusions? Where one lacks news sources to base their thoughts on all one has left is their imagination. So you suggest constructing a reality from my imagination and thinking about that? Thank you for that window into how that mans mind worked. Truley facsinating...
  • #68
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    @PoliticalSpice I love that u decided to assume what I meant to try and make me look or think like I'm the idiot here. It's your world I'm just living in it.
  • #71
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    @TDriver04 I decided and assumed nothing about what you meant, I just repeated your comments about not beleiving anything on the news...but I am pleased that you love what I wrote. Oh, and based on what youwrote, I assure you, you are not living in my world...
  • #10
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    What "cracks?" Being a cranky old man is not a crime nor a psychiatric diagnosis. You can't arrest or confine people for what they might do.
  • #16
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    You mean like arresting people for having ar's and 30 round mags because of what they might do? NY made that assumption and made criminals out of many law abiding people.
  • #18
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    So you think beating a dog to death with a pipe and threatening to kill children amounts to nothing more than being cranky? Uh, maybe in your alternate universe it does, but from where I sit such behavior is long, long way away from mere "crankiness".
  • #19
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    @DapperDave You may have a point, but the article did not indicate he directly threatened kids with a weapon and for all I can tell from the article the dog incident may be just gossip, or, at the least, if they knew about it the local law enforcement folks chose to do nothing about it.
  • #29
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    @Brownie The question is how this guy "fell through the cracks" of our law enforcement and mental health system. It does not address whether one of his neighbors may have had cause to kick his ass.
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  • #22
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    I'm going to try again since the moderator removed my last post. America seems to enjoy painting Vietnam Veterans as some kind of lunatic fringe. The truth is that most Nam vets came home and lived their lives pretty much like anyone else. I don't think the fact that he was in the Navy during Vietnam means a thing to what he was. Some people are just flat out nasty people. Violent people. I knew Nam Vets who volunteered to go back a third and fourth time. They liked killing people. I know a active duty guy right now on his fourth tour. He likes to kill people. Every society has those people who are natural born killers. Sometimes they become serial killers, sometime they become spree killers and sometimes we pin medals on them.

    But this guy was not a highly decorated combat vet. He was in the Navy and he was no swift boater. To ask why he "fell through the cracks" is to imply that our government is responsible for the rest of the lives of every veteran. We are not. We are responsible for those who are killed, who are wounded, who lose limbs. The rest we are responsible for their medical and their burial. That's it. We are not responsible for some guy who lived into his sixties and was a plague on his neighborhood. He was a hick thug. He knew what he was doing was wrong or he wouldn't have kept the boy alive.

    I just find it highly offensive to claim that we somehow "failed" a vet when he had 40 years or so to become what he died as.
  • #24
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    While I agree with all you said I might add if back then they made me dress like Popeye I would be a cranky old codger too.... Thank goodness for Tiger Strips...
  • #32
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    Remember the beltway murders? John Muhammed served in the National Guard, joined the Army, served in the Gulf War and was an expert rifleman. But his rampage apparently had nothing to do with his military service...and it wasn't anyone who failed him except his own self - and his love for Osama bin Laden.
  • #34
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    @ACTSmom Most the guys my age are Nam Vets. Unless of course their daddy was rich or they hid out in England or whatever. I don't personally know a single Nam vet who is a lunatic. A couple are suspect but just a couple. this continual branding of Nam Vets as powder kegs about to go off is simply irresponsible. Probably 70-80% of American's 19 year olds during the middle to late sixties and on into the early 70's was drafted and in some way became a Nam era vet. So some goes off now and then? Name me one other war since WWII when 70-80% of boys got drafted? It hasn't happened. The percentage of Nam Vets who go off is no larger than the general population of today and I'm positive it's less than the criminals in the rap culture.
  • #38
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    @jessejaymes ...my husband is a Viet Nam vet, although he wasn't in combat, but working on the planes. My dad was in WWII and the only problem he had later was when the pins from a broken leg went bad and he had to have more surgery. Guess they didn't have the best surgical steel back then.

    I agree about the cultural influence in many criminal acts today. I've never seen so much anger in so many young men. And I'm not about to start blaming it on the recession or economics in general. Lots of us have been poor in our time but we didn't pistol whip old men and ladies to rob them. Moral values have gone up in smoke.
  • #44
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    @jessejaymes Or hid in france or who shit their pants to get out of having to go. We have a word for those people, Conservative heroes.
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  • #9
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    How did he fall through the cracks??? What crack more like a canyon what I want to know is how they shot Someone who was in a underground bunker how come no one is asking that?
  • #41
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    Two words: Dynamic Entry...keep him talking long enough to blow the entrance...flashbangs, double tap and pray he doesn't have the presence of mine to shoot the kid or one of the entry team.
  • #78
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    @Real4WheelDrv I don't know how well that bunker was constructed but if they were to blow the doors or a real bunker the people inside would be killed from the pressure
  • #80
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    @KyleMFb I understand that, but the report I saw on my locAl news mentioned flashbangs, and I also don't think a bunker door would be breachable with a stealth entry. I.E. pick a lock or break a window to get to the inner door lock.
  • #82
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    @Real4WheelDrv I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I think one is going on here how do you blow open a bunker door go down the steps to actual get into the bunker without any cops getting shot by the crazy gunmen
  • #27
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    I don't consider a Good Conduct ribbon and Viet Nam Campaign ribbon being a decorated military person.
    Medal of Honor, Silver Star, Bronze Star with V device and several other personal awards would be considered decorated. Only the news media would play this up.has a decorated Viet Nam veteran.
  • #14
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    Sorry....but being a Veteran only gets you so much respect....and taking a child hostage for a week negates all of it.
  • #8
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    Great question! Local LEO's, justice depts and the Veterans Admin should be asked that question. I, for one, can not/do not understand how someone, with this history of violence, has not been institutionalized after his guns were removed from him!
    Oh, that's right.....damn guns!
  • #17
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    You beat me to it it's the key part to this story, he smoked pot in 2000 and moved on to killing and kidnapping, it's how it normally goes with pot use.
  • #20
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    @Libertyiskey

    Really, I hope your comment was meant as a joke! Pot is nothing compared to the other crap out there today! Maybe it has more to do with the fact that A LOT of vets do not get the post care that they are promised before going into the Service; albeit it was probably not his choice in the first place.
  • #81
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    There are not enough agencies and programs to help our VETS recover from traumatic things that they've been through. Put simply, no one was there for thus guy. I do NOT have sympathy for him though. Even though he was a VET he should still now what's right and wrong. And what he did was wrong, he deserved what he got.
  • #30
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    Ok let's not get too into the "Decorated veteran" aspect of this story....he was awarded the Vietnam Service Medal essentially for being on a ship in the South China Sea/Gulf of Tonkin......Next the Good Conduct Medal for not being diciplined while in the service of his country i.e doing his job......I guess I'm a decorated veteran also I have a National Defense Service Medal,and I spent Desert Shield in the desert in VICTORVILLE CALIFORNIA and Desert Storm in the UK gettin rained on!!!.....while I applaud this man for his service the media somtimes makes more out of being "Decorated" than is really necessary.
  • #13
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    Why wasn't he imprisoned or committed to an institution? Can you put someone in jail for carrying a weapon on his own property? Is conservative radio illegal? He supposedly threatened to shoot children and beat a dog to death, but there is no mention of those incidents leading to an arrest or even a report. Even if you can prove that someone is a threat to themselves or others, usually they are kept for observation for 72 hours and released. Recreational marijuana is now legal in two states and there is currently a bill in Congress to legalize it nationwide, so a history of possession is not enough to demonize the man anymore. He was scheduled to appear in court for menacing, but could anyone predict that he would shoot a bus driver and kidnap a little boy because of that? Can anyone explain why he did it now?

    By the way, I have been waiting for people to demand that bus drivers carry guns because of this, but have yet to hear any calls for that from the NRA.
  • #12
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    Use of the term 'decorated' for the awards cited is a stretch.

    I suspect that his military service didn't have a lot to do with how he ended up.

    Some of the same people who are complaining about his lack of care and attention would also complain if his life were interfered with prior to this as an infringement on his freedom.
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  • #79
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    Well since he had an underground bunker and a decorated war vet. Maybe the bahama administration wanted him gone.
  • #77
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    This event was tragic in several ways, tragic in that those that those who are mentally ill are allowed to remain unsupervised and not hospitalized where medication couldn't guarantee that they would be able to function without being a danger to others and himself, loose among the public. This tragic event that could have been avoided if this vietnam veteran had been diagnosed and institutionalized for Schizophrenia.
    How long will the public be left exposed to the mentally ill resulting in innocent people being killed because the state and government officials refused to provide proper facilities for the mentally ill in our society.
    The other aside to this tragic event involving this Vietnam veteran is that those who are determined to take the right of citizens to own guns to protect themselves and their families, or for hunting, have been given a tool by this event, a tragic event that happened becaused a mentally ill individual was left to roam about freely by public officials who denied him the proper treatment in facilities where he could have been given the treatments he was so in need of.
  • #76
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    He's right where he needs to be now. I don't care if he's mean, crazy, misunderstood, or outright demented,,, his actions were unwarranted, deadly, and uncalled for. I'm done giving any credence to the 'insanity' plea.
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