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  • #8
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    government has no business in education....INDEED!!!
    Radical Leftist union teachers have taken over public schools.
    They do not teach, They liberal indoctrinate.
    They do not teach children how to think, They indoctrinate in what to think.
    Our tax dollars should go toward paying these public school teachers.
    They should have a public sector union...Period.
    I am all for gutting the Dept of Education.
    Ask your self Parents, what do you want your children to learn , You have to step up to the plate here, and demand that your children get an education they can use.
    Not an indoctrination, That makes them welfare seekers.
  • #111
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    @Cheenoguy LOL---that's a good question, Cheenoguy...And from reading some of the stuff he has written-----It does make you wonder...LOL!
  • #57
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    @harold_lloyd The only indoctrinated children i have ever met have been those who have been in classes with highly controversial and liberal teachers, professors and so forth.
    The number i have met and circumstances i have met them are irrelevant to this conversation, although i would say it around a dozen and a half and it has been everything from friendship, to coworkers that i have had the chance to know for a period of atleast 6 months of longer.
  • #23
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    Your link did not provide any data at all about outcomes or results. None. Zip.

    It is true that some of the best scholars come from home schooling, but some of the worst do too.

    The average achievement level is what's important, but so is the degree of indoctrination that goes along with the recommended curriculum.

    Do we want to raise a lot of little Rand Pauls, or white supremacists, or anti-science creationists?

    Homeschooling outcomes: How do they compare?
    http://www.parentingscience.com/homeschooling...

    Home Schooling
    http://www.stanford.edu/group/reichresearch/c...
  • #34
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    @harold_lloyd - Just why would you say such a rash, ignorant and incorrect thing as "do we want to raise a lot of little Rand Pauls, or white supremacists, or anti-science creationists?" It is not as if Ron Paul is a white supremacist or anti-science. I just don't know what is the basis for such a wildly inaccurate statement.
  • #63
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    @Neo_NtheMatrix I don't believe he said Ron Paul with any of those things. I believe he was just suggesting that the curriculum might have this effect on young people. I sort of agree. For example he said he would teach history from a Western perspective. I would want my child to be exposed to more than just a European history. I would want them to learn about other cultures and other people. And I want them to learn about other forms of government aside from just an American capitalist Republic. I would not mind my child learning about socialism and communism. Information it's never a bad thing.
  • #64
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    @harold_lloyd - Oops. Wrong link. "To err is human."

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505145_162-372425...

    "A new study published in The Journal of College Admission suggests that homeschool students enjoy higher ACT scores, grade point averages and graduation rates compared with other college students. The finding are especially interesting because there has been a paucity of research focused on how homeschooled students fare in college.

    The research, which was conducted by Michael Cogan, the director of institutional research and analysis at the University of St. Thomas, focused on the experiences of homeschooled students at an unnamed medium-sized university in the upper Midwest.

    Here are some of Cogan's findings:

    Homeschool students earned a higher ACT score (26.5) versus 25.0 for other incoming freshmen.
    Homeschool students earned more college credits (14.7) prior to their freshmen year than other students (6.0).
    Homeschooled freshmen were less likely to live on campus (72.4%) than the rest of the freshmen class (92.7%).
    Homeschoolers were more likely to identify themselves as Roman Catholic (68.4%).
    Homeschool freshmen earned a higher grade points average (3.37) their first semester in college compared with the other freshmen (3.08).
    Homeschool students finished their freshmen year with a better GPA (3.41) than the rest of their class (3.12).
    The GPA advantage was still present when homeschoolers were college seniors. Their average GPA was 3.46 versus 3.16 for other seniors.
    Homeschool students graduated from college at a higher rate (66.7%) than their peers (57.5%).

    Of course, the big knock on homeschool students is that they never develop social skills since their classrooms are often their kitchen tables and their mothers are often their teachers. Cogan, however, noted that another homeschool study that looked at more than 7,300 adults, who had been homeschooled, determined that the homeschool graduates were more likely to have voted and participated in community service than other adults."

    There may be valid arguments on both sides of the equation.

    If you try hard, Harold, you might be able to demonstrate your point without over-the-top insults and negative feedback.
  • #77
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    @AntiPorcheria
    "suggests that homeschool students enjoy higher ACT scores, grade point averages and graduation rates compared with other college students."

    The weakness in this study is that it does not examine a random selection of home schooled kids, but a self-selected top tier. That constitutes a fatal flaw with regard to drawing broad conclusions about the success of home schooling.

    No mention of the kids who didn't feel motivated to pursue the college path, the ones who thought that they would fail miserably if they tried, and the ones who were so indoctrinated that they wanted no part of a conventional education.

    The problem with home schooling has two aspects that I see.

    We don't know what is being taught, beyond the academic minimums.

    There is a campaign to give public money to people who home school.
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  • #7
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    My choice is EITHER private schools, which allow US to choose the curriculum void of government brainwashing, and/or home schooling which allows the same thing and is also an excellent source of education.

    Our "public" schools is how the government dominates its citizens: It "educates" the student in propaganda and/or whatever the way needed to allow government control.
  • #22
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    Yes, "propaganda" like science, math, and history -- things which those immersed in partisan politics don't want children taught. So good for the public schools and good for the kids, I think.
  • #6
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    No one system to the absolute exclusion of the others.
    They all have points of merit.
    Ron Paul's Home Schooling curriculum would be very interesting indeed...if we remove or attenuate the Objectivism (you know it will factor highly in the curriculum) this will most likely be successful.
    Interesting.
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  • #48
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    Nope you can ruin your own children's educational lives all you like...We just don't you doing a damn thing to screw up public education for the rest of us.
  • #51
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    @Sonny Oh I wouldnt do that Sonny. Ill let you screw up your own life. You have the freedom to do that as far as I can tell. Im not democrat.
  • #105
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    @Sonny - You said: "We just don't [want] you doing a damn thing to screw up public education for the rest of us." By "screw it up," do you mean, "take our funding away"? It's the only thing I can think of that home/private schoolers could do to a public school. I don't think homeschooling parents are out to screw the public schools via sabotage or malice, or something... do you???
  • #106
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    @DogLady_1 If they are intent upon trying to, as you say, take away the funding for public school, then yes, that's exactly what I mean. And I would fight like hell to make sure that they don't!
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  • #3
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    "They get two courses on government, including a how-to course on reclaiming America, one county at a time."

    Sounds like Ron Paul indoctrination camp.
  • #27
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    So, your ok with America being claimed by current kooks? No reason for us to reclaim it? You're happy with where we've are heading right now??? And are our current public schools not already indoctrination camps?
  • #29
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    @DogLady_1 No, they are not. America is not as far off the rails as kooks like Paul would have us believe. And, no, public schools are not indoctrination camps.

    Our biggest problem is intransigence and partisanship.
  • #35
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    @Litdes - Interesting, because i think we are way off the rails based on the number of changes that I have witnessed over my own lifetime... the kooks we have in control now are pushing us into perpetual war and oppression from corporate powers who are in bed with those elected kooks... and our schools have become more violent... the drop out rate has never improved over the life of the current school system, and we are creating kids who are having a tougher time competing the global market because of our lowered academic standards... and intransigence and partisanship is definitely has a negative impact on public schools... they are too top heavy, and too many decisons are made to benefit some political agenda... Our kids are pushed to conform, and nonconformists are shunned and bullied... indoctrination is definitely an outcome of our current public school system.
  • #38
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    @DogLady_1 I agree with you regarding our military escapades. Much of the rest has to do with unsustainable revenue practic es and lack of diligence finding those avoiding taxation. Ultimately, I laugh at the "starve the beast" crowd who are the first to whine about big government, but also first to complain of long lines at the DMV, the inefficiency of the IRS, or ineffective schools. Usually, the problem is a lack of personnel and resources.

    Ultimately, we can fix all of this, we simply lack the political will to do so. This too will right itself in time.
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  • #90
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    Homeschooling parents have their child's best interest at heart. These parents love their children and want what they feel is best for them. Freedom means having the choice to choose what type of education your child gets.
  • #15
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    Community-based schools or neighborhood learning co-ops are the wave of the future, IMO. Either each community (as defined by those who live there) provides for the education of their children in smaller classrooms and buildings... or home-schooling parents collaborate to provide education in neighborhoods where each parents provides the teaching and direction for the subjects at which they are best teaching... I agree with Paul. Gov't and public schools are dumbing our children down... if anyone has doubt of that, they should compare a history or English textbook from the 1890's to today's textbooks... The older book is written in more sophisticated language and vocabulary, and covers topics in more depth, challenging kids to learn more on their own.
  • #20
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    Here here. But you know this is rise in opting out of the participation in public school systems will be fought fiercely.
  • #26
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    @Slowmo - too bad! LOL... Parents need to be empowered to do what's best for their children, not what's best for a school district! And when we look at how much of our tax revenue goes to paying administrative people instead of educating our children, I think all Americans have a strong argument for dismantling the institutional school system and replacing it with REAL places of learning.
  • #28
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    @DogLady_1 oh I agree with you 100%. I think our public school systems overstep their bounds what authority they think they have vs the rights of parents in regard to their children.
  • #30
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    @DogLady_1 and you are absolutely right....when a budget becomes too large of a priority versus quality of education, the education suffers.
    "..what's best for their children, not what's best for a school district!.." Exactly.
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  • #112
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    Government education is succeeding in what it was designed to accomplish. Our system is copied from the Prussian system in the 19th century. The Prussians developed their state education system in response to the defeats from Napoleon. The Prussians wanted obedient citizens for the military and the factories. Read Mann who led the imposition of government compulsory schooling in the US and understand why we have what we have today.
    We can only develop a free society is with free market education. Costs would drop (think computers), education would improve (computers), and parents would again be in charge of their children's education. The poor would receive help from family and charity if they wanted the help.
  • #55
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    We don't need the dumbing down of students so school districts can meet the Gov't.'s matrix so these school districts can continue to receive more & more money per year having kids graduate as fork -lift operators . Also home schooled children will learn not only school lessons but loving teachers can instill their own morals & values in THEIR OWN CHILDREN . Children should learn to grow & think for themselves - not be Indoctrinated into a certain teacher's or skool bored's beliefs !
  • #13
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    I don't care if Paul sets up a home schooling site or not...that is his business but for him to attack the governments role in education....I'll say nothing more. Just that those Libertarian nuts who say we just don't understand? Screw you and the horse you rode in on.
  • #10
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    Government has no business in education, so put your children's education in the hands of an ex-politician! Courses include The Historically Incorrect Guide to American History!
  • #210
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    It is absolutely ignorant (no pun intended) to think that families, volunteers and churches can educate everyone. Even the Founding Fathers knew that public education was a key to a free country!
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