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  • #1
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    an old man said no.
    shocker.

    the day the SEC isnt downloading porn, the day the IRS isnt spoofing star trek, the day we have a government that will look an insurance company in the eye and explain how a business model works .... these will be days when we are ready for beauracrats, much less politicos, to have access to all the information that we use digitally, which is more and more daily.

    its fairly simple. we do not trust you, your institutions, or you theories. not everyone would sit around all day and fly to dinners to hobnob with other non-workers if given the choice. the day you find a politician who realizes that, will be the day you have found someone who may begin to realize what kind of slippery slope you are talking about with this mess- and they will tell you to GTFO.

    so..... write us another prose pos. good prose has good points. you suck.
  • #59
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    He has just a s much honor as our constitution breaking goverment and let me ask you this. Why would it be honorable to continue to aid and abed those who violate our constitution. It's self serving hypocrite Shocenfeld that have no honor.
  • #13
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    Just more circling of the wagons by those who support enslaving the common people. I'd trust this author about as much as I trust Charles Manson. His entire paycheck, stock options, home, car, LIFE depends on the status quo of the intelligence community. The only difference in the "intelligence community" and Manson is that Manson had a very small "family" to do his dirty deeds.
  • #21
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    What did he compromise?
    What determines 'traitor'. I have a strong feeling a traitor is someone who doesn't agree with the government in power and so it passes the judgement. Does that make pragmatists traitors as well?
  • #25
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    @Rocker a traitor chooses anything over his neighbor or countrymen.

    in my mind, the people who allowed nazi germany were victims, and the people who played small parts were traitors to their nation.

    if you do something that makes us look bad, probably pretty close. if you do something many of us will wanna hang you for, you are probably actually a traitor and dont even know it.

    there are many traitors among us, if we get to talking about things like, say pumping oil out of american land, selling it overseas because it is worth more, then shipping other oil back across the world to your countrymen for a percent point rather than the base points you could have done doing it the other way around and helping your own people.....

    there are varying degrees of traitors.

    however, throughout history, the "government in power" will soon be called traitors. yet, the same neighbors will generally still be neighbors, unless the change killed them. and guess what? that's when being a traitor mattered most. in fact, if you are on the losing side, you will always be a traitor. but the eyes of government and the eyes of people are generally opposite, everyone can deem someone a traitor in their eyes.
  • #26
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    @Rocker That's how I read it too. Anyone who dares to challenge the govt is a "traitor". Shades of the USSR. These guys would execute Jefferson, Hamilton, Hancock et al.
  • #36
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    @NobodysFool Existing government are traitors.....to varying degrees.....along with the people that they "own".....and support them.....in a dysfunctional Stockholm Syndrome.....
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  • #24
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    "He didn't pursue the normal whistleblower route of going to Congress, an inspector general or other body"

    Ok so he should have gone to the government? The same government that was behind what has been going on? Thats like reporting a murder that you witness to the guy who commited the murder. He made the right call. He went to the public who is rightfully pissed off.
  • #27
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    they denied it.
    seen the clips, them being interviewed.
    based on congressmen and women's very own words, he would have thought they didn't know/would not admit it exists if he sat and told them about it.

    screw them. 10 percent yet we all elected them. funny how we all agree on alot of stuff but none of them ever can.
  • #10
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    I could not disagree more. If the programs are deemed legal, then what good would bringing it to the attention of those who authorized them? It was the public that needed to know this information. Call me old fashion, but I believe the government exists to serve the people and should be overseen by the people, and not the other way around.
  • #12
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    again, i gotta agree with you yank.

    the second ammendment is not about who will be here before the cops show up, it is about the fact that the politicians are the boss of the cops, and they need to remember who THEIR boss is, and on their salary, they can afford the same gun we can lol.

    the public is the be all end all here, not a government institution. the bottom line will have to come down to if we believe they catch that many terrorists with this technology. and based upon so many people they have added to watch lists on both sides of the aisle based upon "percieved extremism" ... when they too are extremists..... proves they cannot handle that technology in a nonpartisan, efficient and productive with tax dollar manner.
  • #7
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    "Instead of telling the people under surveillance, he should have told the people funding the people who do the surveillance that they were doing surveillance on who they were funding to watch."
    A lot of words in this article that only serve to polish a giant turd of a stance.
  • #3
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    and ps.... if we all believe he is a patriot, and you are saying he is a traitor, what does that make you??

    enjoying that first ammendment right, CARPET BAGGER?!
  • #19
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    Absolutely not. The government has been extraordinarily, unbelievably corrupt. It denied these programs existed in sworn testimony. When every part of the government is proven corrupt, how do you complain to it. You look for the one right guy. Eventually you are found dead in some back ally. Think of anything this government has done that is not contrary to the interests of the country as a whole. I can't find a single one. That does not mean none exists, but boy is it telling.
  • #14
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    hahahaha jessejaymes you got it right.

    there are soooo many things we could be discussing, this is old news and should have been dealt with under bush, let's be honest. i always wondered how much of this program started with dicky boy having his hands in the oil money- information in the information age, you know.

    oh but they wouldnt do that, would they?! they are our leaders!? hell. anyone seen the batman where HE throws out a machine like that?.... pretty bad when comic book characters cant even handle that superpower but we expect john mccain and the boys?

    this guy is a slavemonger of another color and thinks because he is not afraid to put his old wrinkly face to it that it makes him right. well, he doesnt realize that is why we all use fake names- because unless you support the slave mongers, you do not WANT them recognizing you on the street!
  • #4
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    Most of these points are excellent, although the one place I question or differ is that if he feels that bringing his issues to an IG or Congress may endanger him and never reach the public, then he may have done the right thing.
  • #62
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    Those are the standard attacks from the establishment. If we stopped surveilling us citizens a lot of highly paid govt employees and contractors would need to find some other way to rip off taxpayers
  • #43
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    no wait , remember , THINK LIKE THE IRS...

    that conference was in 2010....

    cant wait to see 2011 and 12 productions.

    funny how "i made a mistake" doesnt cut it for us, huh?
  • #33
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    now i got one more i forgot with watch lists... anyone else remmeber that? bi partisan they said... all those "armed militias"... remember this anybody? seriously? LOL i feel old

    now, when was the last time you seen an armed militia attack a place in this nation? now this argument can be fielded two ways- either there are alot of these people in jail, or they were paranoid of a bunch of paranoid countrymen.... havent heard the figures but id take a guess.

    but over and over you see kids with failed futures, life not turning out, etc... doing horrendous things and the truly horrendous number is the ones that we DONT hear about because its "just not that big" or "important" or "too far away" ... why ever . time in the day :/

    it looks to me like we need better mental health, clear up to congress. it looks to me like we need less reasons to dislike ANY other americans, same side of the fence or not. it looks to me like we need a break from all these nuts, in charge and wandering under the bridge both.

    but im just another nut i guess. lol
  • #32
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    and ps i dont think they do so hot catching these guys.

    they are busy trying to take guns away to stop people from taking guns to places that it is openly posted no one else will have guns?! LOL do the MATH?!

    maybe they are doing WONDERful catching the overseas type. but when i was growing up, we didnt have AMERICANS killing AMERICANS without a frigging REASON! how much of this NONSENSE over the line BS has to do with that? how much of this "tin foil reasoning" ? seriously?

    and you want this nation to not be safe asking THESE QUESTIONS?
    because it is a THIN LINE my friend. you stop asking questions, you stop getting answers. culling information and guessing noncontextually doesnt sound like a foolproof method to me- again, it explains the huge rise in "watch list numbers" or whatever they call them that they reported several years ago with no background info.
  • #23
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    hahahaha

    have any of you ever wanted a nurse to watch you with a ten percent job rating?
    would they even allow that? pretty sure they would (know some "nurses", no offense if youre good at what ya do there )

    i mean, for ... necessity of history, throughout man's time, we have had people telling us what to do , be them kings, emporers, elected officials, "elected" officials.... and not one of them can be cited as having a clue how to be "a better person" , were less "self interested" , down and on the list we go with BAD QUALITIES that EVERYONE possesses....

    i agree terrorism is bad. let's catch REAL terrorists and string their ass up as high as it can go. let's use every tool at our disposal to do such as well.

    HOWEVER, i fail to see how being privy to every "america sucks" thats on the internet is much better than communist china making it illegal to say "china sucks" on the internet.

    i see them using it to catch "socially mandated" crime next. drug use, etc, which is arguable in its many degrees as being good or bad for society. next will come tax evasion, which as with obamacare , legalizing marijuana in areas, etc, will become more and more of a "horrible crime" up there with murder or treason. they will come up with reasons how you are "hurting everyone else" to not pay exhorbiant medical fees and still not have access, etc.... awful close to terrorism here, arent we, "hurting society"?

    its a slippery slope. this is not a tool that we should have in a moral nation's toolbox. period. we have a very thin line of what goes and what doesnt go , and if we start pretending everyone is perfect now because we are SURE they are watching everyone... guess what- we are all screwed in the long run. and that is bipartisan, whether you are political or not.
  • #64
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    You are absolutely correct. What they do is stockpile information on each citizen. Warehouse that info. And if someone like your or I then becomes too much of a thorn in their side they go to their files and say "well lookie here, we got ole John Q. public on Politix saying he smoke pot and he doesn't give a shit what the law says" Next thing you know John Q. Public is arrested for growing, distributing and selling to kids. Makes all the front pages. And it kills the credibility of the person who is the thorn in their side. Never mind that 3 months later the charges are dropped and noticed, if at all, on the back page buried in the obituaries and dog food ads.
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