• #2
    Remember when Obama and the democrats stated the sequester would cost lives and people would loose their jobs and the world would end? DIDN'T HAPPEN!! Another Obama lie. I watched Lew in an interview and this guy dodged every question. He didn't now any numbers on Obamacare, he didn't know exactly what the shortfall was, and when it was suggested if we just pay the interest would that cause default. He was lost. The only people stating that we are going to short fall on our debt is the Treasury Department, and who does the Treasury department work for? The Us government. And who is in charge of the US government? That's right! OBAMA!!!! I believe more in what nationwide "professional" economist are stating about the shortfall. Pay the interest-we have the money to do it plus a little left over. Yes the market is dropping-GOOD!!!! About time the rich got a dose of the real economy. But the market drops every time someone breaks wind anyway. I'll bet that if 18 October comes around it will be business as usual. Obama doesn't run this country-it's run by corporations, and corporations will always find ways to make money. Sure the dollar will weaken, but it's been weakening for years, but life will go on. I just don't believe a damn thing Obama says anymore because he lies too damn much.
  • #8
    Treasury not part of the gov't.


    1. The IRS is not a US government agency. It is an agency of the IMF (International Monetary Fund)(Diversified Metal Products v I.R.S et al.
    CV-93-405E-EJE U.S.D.C.D.I., Public Law 94-564, Senate report 94-1148 pg. 5967, Reorganization Plan No. 26, Public Law 102-391)

    2. The IMF (International Monetary Fund) is an agency of the U.N.(Black's Law Dictionary 6th Ed. page 816)

    3. The United States has NOT had a Treasury since 1921 (41 Stat. Ch 214 page 654)

    4. The U.S. Treasury is now the IMF (International Monetary Fund)(Presidential Documents Volume 24-No. 4 page 113, 22 U.S.C. 285-2887)
  • #11
    The big secret they just don't want the people to see is that for a long time we have already been part of this one world plan.
    7. Social Security Numbers are issued by the U.N. through the IMF (International Monetary Fund). The application for a Social Security Number is the SS5 Form. The Department of the Treasury (IMF) issues the SS5 forms and not the Social Security Administration. The new SS5 forms do not state who publishes them while the old form states they are "Department of the Treasury".(20 CFR (Council on
    Foreign Relations) Chap. 111 Subpart B. 422.103 (b))

    What we are going through now is just them finally workin us in to the equation, we will, of course resist, but in the end many will just give up, the few left behind will be of no real consequence.
    This is money and power at work. The people of the nation are either assets or liabilities, we are material, or farm animals. We mean no more than that.
  • #12
    @Thegrif The IRS is not a government agency? I beg to differ. They draw a government pay check, have health care that falls into that category, the head of the IRS is appointed by the POTUS. We have a Department of the Treasury-you know-the ones who are predicting we can't pay our bills. They are all part of our government. Nice try.
  • #37
    @MadAmerican i looked up some of his supporting documents and he appears to be right on the money,,pun intended...just like the Fed is a private cartel of bankers,not a government agency
  • #42
    @MongoAPillager I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." Thomas Jefferson

    "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered." Thomas Jefferson
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  • #15
    It's time to stop kicking the can down the road. This may finally be the time we actually get our spending under control. It's simply not possible to keep spending more than we make. There are sufficient numbers of areas we can cut our spending.
  • #26
    You know Ford, you are absolutely correct. But, Obama can't negotiate with a gun held to the heads of the american ppl.

    Why? Bc the dems had already agreed to the GOP's number, now they want more.
  • #28
    @mtkopf short answer. Yes he can. He doesn't LIKE it. But he has to now. I'm working. I will expand on this when I can.
  • #41
    @mtkopf is that the tone of civility that Democratic party calls for. It is not going to kill president Obama to tie the individual mandate to the employer mandate. He is looking out for the rich with the employer mandate delay look out for the poor and delay the individual mandate
  • #93
    @mtkopf what I mean is for years all I've heard is talk from both parties about cutting spending and all we get is token cuts. No matter your opinion of the shut down this is a tremendous opportunity to actually force them to do something about spending. From what I can see about politicians the only way to get any of them to actually do anything IS to put a gun to their head and force them to.
    Obama is not going to negotiate with the republicans at all unless the republicans have serious leverage. They have it now. Obama HATES it. But if the republicans don't back down he will eventually be forced to cut some kind of deal. It may surprise you but I could go along with a lot of the democrats plans if there was a way to pay for them. Unfortunately the money isn't there. Getting spending under control is going to hurt. It's never pleasant. But often the best medicine is a bitter pill.
  • #6
    Right on - a finance guy who is telling the truth. Look at it this way - Imagine you owe $150k on your credit cards, and you only make $60k/year. So far you've been able to keep up with your payments by getting a higher credit limit. You think the banks you owe money to have not already noticed you're a high-risk customer? Capping your credit limit and raising your interest rate are the least of your problems.
  • #27
    Now imagine that you can issue IOU's as payment for the $150k that you owe and every year, instead of paying back the money you owe, you spend more and send IOU's to the credit card company minus a small $6k maintenance fee (which grows every year). Next year you owe $174k and you decide to "invest" in a health plan that "only" adds an additional $10k per year.

    Reminds me of the scene at the end of "Dumb and Dumber"
  • #35
    @FordPrefect The more I read the more baffling it becomes as the American people try to blame the conservatives for this crisis. Americans now "deserve" their healthcare. They want all their stuff, their entitlements. We are sitting here figuring out how to pay our mortgage, phone bill, etc. because we don't have the money and then deciding to still go out and buy a new bedroom set and 80" TV. When will it end?
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  • #14
    Jack Lew is lost more than Obama. Didn't have his history of threatened shut downs correct, didn't have numbers on Obamacare, told the reporter that's the wrong question (lol), says congress is to blame and they are not doing their job, but states two minutes later that congress must bring a plan to the president (which is what he is saying no to), and never once answered a question directly. Lew has been attached to the Treasury too long. He's part of the deficit problem too. Clearly a waste of tax payer dollars.
  • #7
    I see most be see it as not that big of a deal. This is my view on it.

    This may be one of the biggest theatrical displays ever put on by the United States government in order to manipulate money. I do not not believe for one second that this country is in THAT much massive debt due to poor people and welfare programs. That's not even comprehensible.

    I do believe, however, that we are in that much debt because we have shifted massive amounts of American tax dollars outside the United States in under the guise of various military and foreign aid agendas over the years. Money? We don't have anymore. It's gone. Think of it this way. You have cash in one pocket and credit card in the other. Over the years your relatives have come and asked for money so you give them the cash while YOU have used the credit card to support yourself. Now, you're out of cash, you're relatives have taken what you given them and spread it around to their buddies and invested it, and you're in debt up to your eyeballs. Sound close?

    If we'd stop with the Obama/no Obama thing we'd really see what this government is. If we'd stop listening to rich pundits on the TV and radio we'd see more clearly. We're being duped because our leaders know we can't think critically and we're too damn lazy to learn anything beyond what we're told. Only NOW we want to control government spending? Why didn't we control it in 1965? Or 1980? Or 1993? Or in 2004? Why now? If there really is a catastrophe on the horizon of Biblical proportions, why are we only NOW wanting something done?
  • #4
    I had some credit card debt that was tough to pay off for a few years and the issuing company never went under I don't see what the default is going to do to us
  • #13
    @Ironicguy That $17 trillion is on balance sheet debt. There's another $60-$90 trillion of off balance sheet debt due to unfunded liabilities (medicare and social security). The government does not have to include future liabilities in its financial statements because they have the power to tax unlike private companies. Where is the social security money? Invested in US Treasury Instruments. You can only imagine drama when its time to repay the principal on those bonds.
  • #40
    However all the expert predictions and explanations mean nothing,,,unless you end the FED nothing you see reported by all these experts mean a thing,if 1. they don,t realize this they are not credible 2. if they don realize this and keep up the same expert drivel then they are an active part of the destruction of this country
  • #32
    Unfortunately I don't believe it would be catastrophic, although I wish is would. We seem to be hardened to any good will or humanity until our very life sources are threatened. Lets' default and see where the Real American People are. Do any live here anymore??
  • #31
    Much adieu about nothing.....

    Besides, that IS the fundamental problem. Running a monetary system on debt rather than on the gold standard is unsustainable.....and it's about ready to POP.....
  • #24
    the debt ceiling and debt default are two different things, why do we keep mixing them together, debt ceiling is your credit card limit, debt default is you stop paying your credit card bill. stop confusing the unwashed masses and explain this properly.
  • #22
    Newsflash. CONSERVATIVES DO NOT CARE. America does not matter to them, only their failed ideology matters!
  • #29
    @Thunderchicken took what i ssaid...and you changed it to add the Word Obama...Wow. Such Genius

    I just love the deep thinking conservative mind!
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  • #18
    You mean the REAL "banksters" wouldn't have a phony, artificially-inflated "money supply" to "loan" out in order to profit from what has become the largest ponzi scheme the world has ever seen? Are we to actually believe that our nation's economy has become such a sham that it cannot survive without trillions and trillions worth of debt? If that is true, then our nation is doomed already.
  • #19
    In addition, I voted "bad, but not catastrophic", because obviously our economy, drunk of public debt, would have a huge financial hangover as natural market forces corrected a system propped up artificially by those who manipulate it. Long term, however, we'd be better off.
  • #10
    If we default on our debts by not paying our interest, the United States dollar will cease to be the world's reserve currency then were screwed! Of course, there will be a rise in interest rates. If those two things happen, we will have hyperinflation in this country. That's a good thing if you're in debt, but if you worked and saved your money, you're screwed. This is as simple as it gets.
  • #84
    Everyone needs to take a breath and stop trying to use macroeconomic examples in reviewing a macroeconomic situation. In addition one must look at not only govt spending and debt but private spending and how that impacts the international markets. Reduce the size and power of the federal govt and things will work themselves out in the marketplace.
  • #3
    ALL markets correct, through a variety of means (stupidity, in the current case). A market that DOESN'T correct is a "sure thing", and we've yet to see that in the history of histories.

    Our debt has gotten too far out of hand, and can't be fixed through traditional means. The established revenue streams are already tapped to capacity, and the last social strata that could take another tax hike (the middle class) will not only fall laughably short of a fix, but will signal its death knell.

    The collective will of the populace is all that remains (and I don't mean "voting the bums out" and replacing them with new bums ad nauseam). Slay the dragon with internal support networks, or suffer the ignominy of indentured servitude to The Land Of The Big Exports.
  • #98
    A basically true article, with one exception: the statement "..the United States - the largest issuer of bonds in the world, as well as the minter of the world's reserve currency " is not true. The United States mints coinage, which by definition is not currency. The currency printed for the United States is actually bills of debt owed to the privately owned Federal Reserve bank.
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