• #2
    We lost this so called war and countless lives and blood long ago.Over 30 killed so far this month and you hardly hear a word about the loss.The media has chosen to protect the administration and betray the American soldiers they view as pawns.Simple WTF is in order.
  • #31
    Did you set on your dead azz or do something to show you cared?I doubt it and what I did was not for a tax deduction if one even existed.Put your money were your mouth is .google wounded warrior project and show that you care instead of talking sh-t.
  • #42
    @Cal Almost half of those loyal American soldiers come from the south... and are proud of their southern heritage. Most people flying the stars and bars are not advocating cessation from the union or supporting slavery, they are simply proud of their ancestors and their military history.
  • #44
    @MarkColwell Thank you for understanding that.Slavery of anyone is wrong the civil war was not fought to end slavery but an excuse used by the government at that time.The end result was freedom for those enslaved and freedom for those used by the union.Have a goodnight.
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  • #4
    For those that believe a bunch of rag tags are no match for the U.S. military these fighters have proved that wrong.Not one fighter jet,strategic bomber,drones,helicopters,or any high tech weapons and they have defeated our forces claimed to be the best in the world along with defeat of the British and the Russians.A dedicated and determined force can change the game ,worked here in the revolution,Vietnam and afghanistan.You may want to re- think again what is possible?I in now way support their success and have done what little I could by supporting those that fought thru wounded warriors program and food sent.Sad the slaughter has gone on this long.One American killed in this continued war to me is a slaughter.Bush and obama you must be proud.
  • #36
    I guess you need to explain how they "defeated" our forces. In Vietnam the military was hamstrung by a line on a map, in Afghanistan they are hamstrung by rules of engagement. If anyone out there thinks that we can't win a "war" there then they we need to look at what defines a win and for that matter what defines a war. If the goal was to stabilize the current govt and to limit the influence of the taliban then we could reasonably say we won. If it was to stabilize the region then it was never winnable, just like Vietnam.

    Our strike teams have been very successful in taking out fighter and caches of weapons. All the taliban can do now is ankle bite. War is brutal, ugly, and results in the loss of history (architecture, monuments,...) and involves significant "collateral" damage. In addition, soldiers make poor policemen and should not be used in that role. So why there was justification for both "wars" the mission parameters and restrictions were poorly defined.
  • #43
    If by defeated you mean survived while still occasionally managing to exact losses then yes, they have defeated our forces... because our forces were never designed to fight this kind of war. On the other hand, when you have defeated all your enemies standing forces... that is normally understood to mean that you have won the conflict. So it could also be argued that we won the war.

    If you look at the losses to both sides, I think it's clear that no one has won... no one has defeated anyone. We are tired of the stalemate, and hope to see Afghan forces sustain it for us once we leave.
  • #48
    It took us less than 30 days to remove the Taliban from power the war was over then eventing since then has been nation building
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  • #29
    An Afghan history page has interesting insight on how stable the nation has been and how stable it's prospects are is probably not to far off from what it's future will be. I thought the comment that all that has changed in the last 1000 years was the weapons used against them.

    The story of Afghanistan is in so many ways a very tragic one. Afghanistan is one of the most impoverished nations of the world. It is one of the most war-torn, most ravaged, and most beleaguered of nations. It is a nation that has been beset by invasion, external pressure and internal upheaval since before the time of Alexander the Great. Its people are a people who have endured more than most of us can ever imagine. In fact, for many Afghanis, all that has changed in the last one thousand years are the weapons which have been used against so many of them. It is therefore with great sadness and respect that I tell the story of Afghanistan
  • #1
    Bush screwed up on day 1 by invading the place. Anyone with minimal knowledge of the country could have predicted the outcome. Unfortunately american "exceptionalism" overweighed knowledge and President Obama has to deal with the fallout. Unlike Vietnam where the republicans started it and ended it.
  • #15
    There isn't a damn thing we can do for these double dealing thugs. It's time to declare victory and get the hell out of that G-d forsaken hell hole
  • #18
    Exactly. Afghanistan is a graveyard of armies and imperial ambitions. It is at the end of the known world and supply lines.
  • #25
    @martydotcom HMMM.....time to leave was 4+ years ago!
    By the way Ernest, Bush started it, but, Obama ramped it up and has stayed there for almost 5 years now!
    What up with that Ernest? <in my best rap artists stance, flashing gang signs, for an old man>
  • #28
    You can't walk away in a day. It took 18 months to get out of Iraq and Afghanistan is a far more complex retreat. President Obama is following his time line.
  • #32
    @stepped_in_it the day we arrived in force was the day to leave. Afgan was a military job for Special Forces. Nation building there???? Both Obama and Bush idiots for getting us in and keeping us there
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  • #41
    i have two suggestions. First, draft every known pedophile into the Army, teach them to shoot a gun and send them as our security force to Afghanistan. I guarantee that they'll be welcomed with open arms. Second, conduct free and fair elections and let the Talibon win so that we can write Afghanistan off as a lost cause. We would save money and get rid of our pedophiles at the same time.
  • #40
    Why should Obama stop now with his hit and run tactics to get us out of a War with out a Victory now? The bundle he saves from doing so, gives him more capitol to do even bigger and better things to Americans!
  • #39
    And I don't care!!! This region has been butchering each other's tribes, ethnicities for EONS. Take our men and women out of harm's way NOW and quit UNITING all of these psychopathic butchers against a common enemy (US!) and let them resume their cheerful human blood-bath once more without foreign interference! I don't want to hear one more name of fallen service member out of George Stephanopoulos mouth on Sunday morning. For the Love of G-d, get our sons and daughters out of that festering, meat-grinding hell-hole!!!
  • #30
    The people of that region of the world have always fought with each other and always will. Our military eliminated most of the international and some of the internal threats for stability in afganistan. Whether or not it was worth it is really a long term question, we shall see.
  • #23
    All will remember Vietnam.........all this "war" has been is Vietnam 2.0 .
    And, this is OBAMA'S war (we've been there almost 5 of HIS years).......and like Obama's policies, it's a failure. I do blame Bush was a failed venture from the get go!
    And to all you Obamaites.....NO, we are NOT out of this war, even though Obama say's we are! Why would we have had 10+ KIA's (killed in action) that had to fight for their compensation if we are out of this war! And who did these families have to fight for compensation? Again.......OBAMA!
    Obama has (IMO) became the worse president in our history. Way to go, you egotistical, manipulative, girlie-man sure represented your race AND gender well!
  • #20
    Leave their culture and the people involved be what they will be. We stick our unwanted noses in everywhere and can't even handle our own governance.
  • #16
    The only thing I want out of Afghanistan is our troops back home. I don't want to see a single US dollar wasted over there trying to rebuild their country. They can do whatever the hell they want with that country as long as they are no longer a threat to us. If they do become a threat to us we should attack them from the skies and not put any more American lives at risk than is absolutely necessary. Working to make their country stable - who cares. It's not worth the money. They hate us now and they'll hate us if we stabilize the country. America has too many serious problems at home. Leave Afghanistan to the Afghans. As long as they don't present a threat let them do whatever they want with THEIR country.
  • #9
    To avoid that tragic outcome, the United States must successfully clear the following hurdles:
    â– Successfully negotiate a bilateral security agreement with Kabul. The United States and Afghanistan concluded a strategic partnership agreement in May 2012 that outlined a vision for broad-based cooperation over the next decade. However, the May 2012 agreement required that Washington and Kabul also conclude a bilateral security agreement to create a legal framework for U.S. military and civilian personnel to operate in Afghan territory after 2014. Without this follow-on agreement, all U.S. troops will be legally obliged to withdraw from Afghanistan.

    {Unlike how President Hussein Obama negotiated with Republicans and therefore the American people? Karzai is nothing more than a mini-me of President Hussein Obama.....}
  • #14
    @Ironicguy One: He is muslim. Two: Founders did not want non-natural born citizens for president. Why? Loyalty issues. Three: Aforementioned loyalty issues have shown up in increasing and disturbing ways with President Hussein Obama and those loyalties do not lie with the Constitution but its enemies, including Al Qaeda, who he has armed with our weapons that will be used to murder our soldiers.

    In conclusion: One could write at least three volumes on evidence - legal, circumstanstial, actions, etc.
  • #19
    @Knightkore 1: He's not a Muslim, and if he ever was it's obvious he's converted to Christianity. 2: I guess it's good that the president was born in the United states. 3: Every president since Reagan has armed the enemy, whether it be the contra or the Mexican cartel. I am not aware that the president was arming Al-Qaeda but the Muslim brotherhood I can believe.

    In conclusion: Obama has done some ethically questionable things that were probably unconstitutional. Because he's corrupt? Yes. Because you think he's a Muslim? Probably not.
  • #21
    @Ironicguy We'll have to agree to disagree. If I ever write those books maybe you'd buy a copy or heck, I'd give you one. I'm nice that way. <wink>
  • #5
    Op-Eds like this make me wish I had minored in International Relations instead of Public Policy. But Americans seem to care less about foreign relations than maybe we should.

    I am hopeful that we can extricate ourselves from Afghanistan and be better off than we were before the invasion. And I'm hopeful that maybe we can start trusting Iran to be more open and honest about their nuclear ambitions.

    But I guess the other reason I never got into IR, is that both of those prospects also feel a little too weighty -- there's too much riding on America's foreign policy for me to feel comfortable having a strong voice on anything other than its general direction. The specifics are better left to @EvanMoore and the other experts.
  • #7
    I don't know you think we can ever trust Iran haven't you paid attention to things the last thirty or so years? Obama just threw away decades of strategic planning.
  • #11
    @FordPrefect That's kind of what I'm trying to say. Iran has been a rogue country my entire life. They haven't demonstrated a willingness to get along in the world until now. And not having paid close enough attention to my limited studies in International Relations, I don't know what's supposed to happen when a rogue nation expresses a desire to play by the rules and join the larger world community.

    But I feel the same way about Afghanistan, they've been in a bad way in the international community as long as I can remember. But it seems like maybe they want to get along now.

    How can we really trust them? During the Cold War, Ronald Reagan was fond of quoting a Russian proverb when working with Mikhail Gorbechev on U.S.-Soviet relations. Trust, but verify -- as the Russians have long and often said.

    That seems like a decent way, generally speaking, to approach our foreign policy. But like I said, I know American politics and public policy. International relations is not my bailiwick.
  • #13
    @adamfhutton we have been preparing for a war with Iran since the 70's. In fact that was the real reason for the Iraq war. Look at a map. The biggest fear is Iran taking over Iraq. Then Iran becomes a super power. That cannot happen. When we were sitting in Iraq we had a huge stick to use against Iran to keep them from building nukes. Obama trashed that entire deal. Now all they have to do is lie to us and tell us what we want to hear.
  • #35
    @FordPrefect Okay. I'm willing to concede that you understand more about the military strategy in Iran and Afghanistan, if you'll stipulate that I know more about the politics and policy parts of the equation. And I'm sure you don't think I would ever want any foreign country, let alone one in the Middle East, to lead America around by its nose.

    Trust, but verify.... there's an unspoken ellipses there, implying consequences if the trust is broken. It's more of a subtle threat than capitulation. And in the U.S. we back up our threats, until Putin gets involved (please don't get sidetracked). Remember we're supposed to be on Afghanistan, not Iran or Syria. Although the idea of an Iranian super power is interesting, I sooner fear a Chinese or Indian one.(a debate for another time) But like I said, international relations is not a specialty of mine.

    I'm glad we're trying to find a way out of Afghanistan and I'm hopeful that it will remain stable and an ally to the U.S. I hope we can maintain an influence in the Middle East for a long time even if it sometimes means backing Israel when we really don't agree.(another separate debate) But I don't think Iran really wants to take over Iraq at the moment. They'd have to clean up the mess we left and that wouldn't leave much time for fulfilling its nuclear ambitions. Plus, doing that would actually thwart those ambitions in the worst possible way.