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  • #1
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    There is too much political posturing of what should be a free market choice . As it is now, Dems and Repub want to make excuses why the other side is wrong. If the government would just get out if the way and let "we the people" decide with our pocketbooks, things will work themselves out.
  • #11
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    Right on the posturing. Wrong on should be free market. Health is not a suitable product for the mythologic free market. That's why we have such generally p poor out comes in this country compared to oh let's say Sweden. Unless, of course you are Like Sen Ted Crude (R blinding ambition) who gets his health insurance through his wife's employer. A as far above a Cadillac policy as that is above no health insurance at all but worth it to the employer. because 1. Nice tax subsidies under existing law. And 2. Bedroom and breakfast table access to a blindingly ambitious amoral demagogue.
  • #33
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    @j2saret sorry to say, but the Swedish health care system isn't perfect. The USA has, historically, been a leader in health care break-throughs in curing diseases. With the future if health care in th is country, it is questionable as to how far we can advance our medical break-throughs under a governmental system. Had Congress fixed 2 areas of health insurance, like selling across state lines and dropping people due to the preexisting condition, it would have worked out better than a government take-over. As it is now, certain members of congress and talk pundits are talking about just making the move to single-payer, which is definitely NOT the right move.
  • #98
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    Selling across state lines does not insure better rates....That is BS the insurance industry left to its own will rob you blind that is how they have operated for all these years and with the new law they still get to rob you blind lol...so all the rhetoric is BS.
  • #99
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    Single payer was the way to go.....who cares if insurance companies make a profit. I dont its not like they share their wealth...so drink the cool aid...
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  • #9
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    it is a moot point she had insurance she was happy with it .there's no reason,and the government has no right to get in between her and her insurance agent ... or between her and her doctor which the article admits she will likely lose. the government does not have a right to interject itself into your personal life if you are not a threat to anyone else..

    for example the government could pass a law saying everyone needs to be covered by health insurance, and some in the government have argued " its just like car insurance..."

    well okay then if its just like car insurance everyone goes to the insurance agent and gets a policy. but that's not what the government did the government is funneling everyone into itself.... it is federalizing insurance just like it will soon federalize elections...

    ..... and just like it uses these welfare programs to coerce people to vote a certain way , by implying " draconian" changes or threatening the existence of their benefits.... it will soon use the same arguments towards people who are highly subsidized under the government health care system.

    that's what this is all about it has nothing to do with healthcare. it has everything to do with election time saying if you want to continue getting your health care subsidy you WILL VOTE for ( whichever party is holding the whip at the time) and by the way that's why the Republican Party is not making such a big stink about this they understand that if they ever get back in power they will be able to use this against the American people.
  • #41
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    Regarding car insurance. Firstly, one has to have a Lic and insurance to drive on public roads. Keeping in mind, that driving a car is as PRIVLEDGE, not a right. Besides one doesn't have to drive. Mandated govt. health care is neither a privledge or a right!
  • #50
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    @S-N-A-F-U yeah I understand that.. I was merely pointing out the frailty of that argument buy some Indian ministration and on the left who say its just like car insurance... I also agree that mandated anything from the government, is neither a privilege or a right but a burden.
  • #128
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    George Mason University professor Walter E. Williams outlined the case that states can nullify Obamacare, citing Thomas Jefferson’s 1789 Kentucky Resolution, which was a claim that the U. S. Constitution is a compact among the several states, and any power not delegated to the U.S. government is void.

    “I think the American citizens ought to press their state governors and legislatures just to nullify the law — just to plain nullify it and say,‘The citizens of such-and-such-a state don’t have to obey Obamacare because it’s unconstitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says,’” Williams said.

    Williams cited Marbury v. Madison, which said “all laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void” to further the case for nullification from the states.

    Nullification is a doctrine introduced in the infancy of the United States and was what some have suggested led to the Civil War. As far as the legal precedent of nullification and how it led to the Civil War, Williams said he doubted the repercussions would as serious as they were in 1861.

    “I think two things are different this time,” he said.“First, most Americans are against Obamacare. And secondly, I don’t believe — and you call me up and tell me if I’m wrong about this — I don’t believe that you could find a United States soldier who would follow a presidential order to descend on a state to round up or shoot fellow Americans because they refuse to follow a congressional order to buy health insurance.”
  • #3
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    I'm sure some peoples eyes glaze over when reading insurance and financial papers. But we all have the choice to become knowledgable about the things that affect our lives. If one choses not to be informed, it's their problem. I wonder what other opportunities this person has missed.
  • #121
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    Personal responsibility is not very high on the list for a liberal UNLESS they can get others to bear that responsibility for them.
  • #17
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    I think the horror stories come because it us a horrific law! You can keep your plan says Obama...untrue...if you are a 51 year old male you have to carry maternity coverage! Plans that do not meet the new requirements are gone...because the govt knows what you need way better than you do!
  • #10
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    Her plan was nixed by obumblecare minimums. Where did she lie? I seem to remember the president promising 'If you like your plan, you can keep your plan'. That seems to be the LIE. They knew in 2010 that obumblecare would force millions of individuals from their current plan and continued to promote the LIE. When will the administration be held accountable for their lies?
  • #30
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    It is my understanding that insurance companies have been offering policies that have little coverage, and apparently, they made those types of policies illegal... I am not sure about this, but this is what I keep hearing, and it makes sense. Her original policy, for instance, might have a provision that discontinues her coverage after a catastrophic illness or treatment of a chronic illness after a designated maximum payout...

    Since none of us have even seen the policy she had, how can we know that it was better or worse than what she is now getting?
  • #36
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    @DogLady_1
    "If you like your policy, you can keep your policy. "
    I don't see anything about minimums in that statement. She liked her policy but she can't keep it. Please don't overlook the deliberate lies.
  • #61
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    @Pappaslack - What I'm wondering is why we didn't hear about insurers having to change ALL of their policies to fit ACA parameters... this upsets me. This should have been covered in media releases prior to Oct. 1st to let people know that some of the existing policies people may have will be discontinued...

    It appears that Associated Press put out some articles about it, but I'm sure they got buried under the barrage of editorials and rhetoric that led up to the launch date...

    MAY 5, 2013: "The National Association of Insurance Commissioners says it is hearing that many carriers will cancel policies and issue new ones because administratively that is easier than changing existing plans."

    http://www.denverpost.com/ci_23348688/health-...

    Regardless whether our elected officials voted for or against ACA, they should have made it their job to inform their constituents about the standardization of private insurance, not just those on the ACA exchanges. With that said, I also hold the public accountable for doing their own homework and not just listening to what their elected officials were telling them... This cancellation thing should have come as no surprise to anyone...

    I am also very upset about the very limited offerings from insurers through ACA.
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  • #7
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    Even with subsidy the article says she would be paying $480 more per year now, assuming the plan even covers at least as much as she had previously. The democrats are really grasping at straws to defend obamacare...
  • #18
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    Paying more in premiums if your statement survives a reality check. But she has reduced out of pocket and increased office visits, it is probable that she will average a general savings. Its amazing what a eighty will say after taking their cue from the echo chamber. No is not a gratuitous shot at Repug lockstep, its return fire for the did grasping at straws round you fired off.
  • #37
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    Golly gee, if it's so damn good why is the congress, staffers, the president and certain groups exempting themselves out of the same provisions that pertain to the serfs on the plantation? Can anyone defending this debacle, explain? <smile>
  • #124
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    Exactly that extra $480 is much more than she would havd spent if she was sick and went to a minute clinic such as the ones walgreens has where if she needed an antibiotic for a bacterial infection she could get it.
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  • #24
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    I heard both the woman and the reporter be interviewed on the radio. The reporter was wrong, not the woman. Even if the woman can get a better plan through the government website, she should have the option to choose what she wants in her plan. No one is allowed to do that anymore. A single male has to have maternity insurance. I know someone who is in the middle of chemo (currently) and her plan is cancelled. This is total insanity.
  • #15
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    The deductible, after subsidies, is still $480 higher annually.

    Cavallaro can choose an Obama-approved bronze plan with the same exact deductible as she has now. BUT if a $5,000 deductible is such a huge denial of "access" to health care, then why is there a plan that has exactly that on the Obamacare exchange?

    Hiltzik's colleague, Terhune, reported in September, "To hold down premiums, major insurers in California have sharply limited the number of doctors and hospitals available to patients in the state's new health insurance market opening Oct. 1.", ergo there is quite a high probability that Cavallaro will not be able to keep her doctor. But we can't know for certain because the feature on the California Obamacare exchange site that lets you see if the doctor you like is included in the plan you are about to buy is BROKEN.

    Hiltzik does dismissively note later, all of his calculations on the subsidies Cavallaro is eligible for, is based on her income from last year. But Cavallaro also says her income fluctuates. And if an American uses Obamacare subsidies, but then makes more than the eligibility limits allow, the IRS can demand the return of the subsidies. IRS Health Audit anyone?

    http://townhall.com/tipsheet/conncarroll/2013...
  • #4
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    The proof is in the pudding. A huge number of people are losing the health care coverage they already have. Not only that, but also not everybody will qualify for the subsidy. The plain fact of the matter is that the ACA is a gigantic pyramid that is dependent on getting large numbers of young people to sign up through the exchange. These young people will have to pay premiums that are not actuarially warranted to pay for the health care of older people whose health insurance costs are higher due to medical conditions associated with age. THAT'S A CLASSIC PYRAMID!

    We all know what happens to pyramids. If we have 150 years to listen Bernie Madoff could give us quite a lecture.
  • #13
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    Now I have your attention why has national health insurance in Germany since Bismarck's time left them with such a health economy they are pretty much keeping the EU afloat. I think your political fantasies and reality are in another ugly collusion.
  • #22
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    @j2saret

    Because with a population of only 82 million, their health care costs are less than 1/3rd of what we can expect in the USA. You're comparing grapes to grapefruit without realizing they are two entirely different fruits despite what the name suggests.
  • #27
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    @j2saret

    I think you meant "collision rather than "collusion".

    To answer your question you would have to know something about German history, society, and the economic conditions that existed between the time of Bismarck and the present day. A simple comparison doesn't work.
  • #79
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    "THAT'S A CLASSIC PYRAMID!"

    It's called a risk pool, and it is the basic mechanism by which insurance of any type functions. Complaining that young, healthy people have to pay into a system that supports costs for older, sicker people is like complaining your car insurance company covers bad drivers as well as your own always-safe-driving self. It's a shared risk system that's existed since at least the Dutch East India Company (although some references indicate Renaissance Italy was the birthplace of the concept).

    "We all know what happens to pyramids."

    Yeah, they seem to last for 5,000 years or so - and counting. ;)
  • #85
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    @DARSB I feel like the "bad driver" comparison is really an opposite example. Drivers with good records,(although admittedly there is some "paying for bad drivers" built in) generally pay much less in premiums than those with a bad driving record. So to say healthy people should be paying the same as, or more than, a sick person it really not a good comparison here. An obese diabetic alcoholic smoker shouldn't be paying less than a fit young person who takes care of their health by this logic.
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  • #2
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    It's still early and doubtful Obamacare is set in stone already. It could very well morph into something else in response to valid horror stories, especially the 90 million getting booted from their employer coverage.
  • #26
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    where did you get the news that 90 million people lost their employer coverage? What I have heard is that millions of people will choose ACA over their employer coverage. I'd like to look into your assertion that people are getting "booted"... Please provide sources...
  • #51
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    @j2saret yes booted silly. I have had this happen to me. I don't qualify for subsidies nor do my employees and their group plan has been canceled. It wasn't a crap plan either. But we are not going to save money by buying a new plan.
    But the fact is Obama didn't say we wouldn't be able to keep what we had if we liked it. No he lied knowing full well we wouldn't be able to keep it. He knew the truth but chose to lie.
  • #54
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    @j2saret

    But what if one's existing policy was just right? I used to have four choices in employer subsidized coverage. Now I have two. Neither fit as well as what I had. Yeah I upgraded but I up priced too.
  • #59
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    @FordPrefect or the insurance companies chose to terminate instead of offering the upgrade. In either event even the respected center left publications have been admonishing Obama for months for his at best over simplistic promises. But in the sound byte advertising and advocacy era its not surprising . his opponents have been even more disingenuous.
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  • #20
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    The current administration could not manage a lemonade stand...I do NOT want the "I didn't know about that!" And "its somebody else's fault" president having ANYTHING to do with my healthcare!
  • #16
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    There are so many spin stories going on no one really knows the truth at this time. The fact is Obama said she could keep her plan, he withheld the "rest of the story" so at a minimum he was not upfront with the American people. But I also remember Pelosi said we had to pass it to read it so we all got what we allowed. I think this is the first step to social medicine controlled and rationed by the government and I think we will all regret the ACA.
  • #39
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    When I see the stories being spun the first thing that comes to mind is Dead or Alive's song You Spin Me Right Round. That song really needs to get out of my head...
  • #60
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    Actually, she was right. ObamaCare DID "nix" her insurance. The free-market plan that she was entirely satisfied with is now illegal, and she is forced to choose from government-approved, government-controlled, and government-mandated plans, contrary to what Barack Obama promised....if she could only get on the website to do it.
  • #47
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    Most Americans have proved that their ignorant, we see that in the number of poor folks who voted Republican, whose goal is for the wealthy and corporations not the average working Joe or Jane American. Even when things benefit some people they allow their ignorance and hatred blind all common sense. It's rather sad that folks can be so self-destructive and stupid.
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  • #147
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    @BlackHeywood
    Swing low sweet chariot.

    The only thing your boy will be walking is the long walk of shame from the office to the prison can.
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  • #32
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    I wanted to let you know that earlier today I received my "Obamacare enrollment packet” from the White House.
    It contained:
    · An aspirin and a band-aid.
    · An 'Obama Hope & Change' bumper sticker
    · A 'Bush's Fault' yard sign
    · A 'Blame Republicans first, then anybody and everybody' poster
    · A 'Tax the Rich' banner
    · An application for unemployment and a free cellphone
    · An application for food stamps
    · A prayer rug
    · A letter assigning my debt to my grandchildren
    · And lastly, a coupon for a machine that blows smoke up my #@!.
    Everything was made in " China " and all directions were in Spanish.

    Keep an eye out. Yours should be arriving soon, you poor saps. <wink>
  • #175
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    You need to complain as your packet was incomplete! Mine included:
    *A sworn affidavit stating number of guns owned by recipient.
    * A document asking me to agree to give illegal aliens my Social Security benefits.
    * A warning that my personal life can be spied on via email, phone, mail and etc.
    * "You Are No Better Than Diplomats From 36 Countries" bumper sticker.
    * "Gimme, Gimme...More Money For Another Clunker" bumper sticker
    * A fill in the blanks game for a chance to win some Vaseline. Obama aka P-------O
    * An application to purchase rationed lobster-Signed by Moochie
    My smoke blowing machine was the likeness of Joe Bite Me...I'm lucky! When it's time to blow, he just has a laughing fit.
  • #23
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    "But she won't actually pay that...She's eligible for a subsidy...." Ah, there is the rub. Eligible for a subsidy. And she has to apply for it and fill out the questionnaire etc.. But she will have to apply for a subsidy. But she is not mandated or obligated to do so if she does not want to...And only a $6000 out of pocket expense with the Bronze plan. She is wrong, she can get insurance. Not the insurance she has or liked, but a new better subsidized plan. If, she applies for it. What a disingenuous article. And welcome to the government data base.
  • #40
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    "Only a $6000 out of pocket expense." That amount is too high for many folks. And, they surely cannot afford the silver or gold plans. And, who pays for the subsidy? Yep, what she gets is new, but it is damned sure not better.
  • #46
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    @Willozwisp Here we go with the word "subsidized" again...who gets the bill for that one? Oh yea, the young and healthy who only want catastrophic insurance but won't because they will pay the fine, or play "catch me if you can" with the government first (do we have that many IRS agents?).

    Oops shit!
  • #92
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    @BravoJuliet No, not only them but those middle aged folks who are having their policies cancelled. In order to get a new policy they must pay for coverage they will never need. Why would anyone over 50 want maternity coverage? Or birth control coverage? Why would they want to pay higher premiums to get higher deductible and higher copays? And, let's not even mention what Medicare patients are experiencing.
    All of this is designed to force a tax burden upon responsible parties so others can get subsidized health insurance. And, oh yeah, it is a tax....the SCOTUS said so.
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  • #19
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    Does the Left understand the concept of "grandfathering" or are they trying to redefine it?

    The proper way to "grandfather" these insurance policies is to allow people who had a plan that didn't include coverage for stuff they didn't want or need to continue to be satisfied with a plan that doesn't cover the stuff they don't want or need.

    That's the way we all understood it when Obama said that if we like our plan we can keep it.

    This is the equivalent of some big, bad, evil corporation screwing over customers who didn;t read the fine print.
  • #5
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    It's not that they don't understand, they're using the situation to spread their own beliefs. clearly this woman is lying and it got her on tv shows
  • #62
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    The president said if you like the plan you have you can keep it. He DID NOT say he was going to make your current plan ineligible. Neither me or my employees qualify for subsidies. The nearest plan to what we had will cost substantially more.
  • #86
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    You sure do love to call other people liars even though there is always evidence to the contrary, don't you?*facepalm*
  • #83
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    Great, Mary! Like a typical liberal you only concentrate on aspects that are neutral or favorable to your side of the argument, as in ObamaCare, but totally ignore the numerous negative aspects, including the fact that millions are legitimately losing their current healthcare insurance and will have to pay a substantial increase for a private sector replacement plan--Thanks to ObamaCare! Moreover, millions of Americans will no longer be able to keep the doctor(s) they want and trust--Thanks to ObamaCare! So millions of Americans are now getting a wake-up call to the LIE called ObamaCare. I just wish you would wake-up too. The bottom line--Mary--is that Barack Obama deliberately misrepresented ObamaCare, as in he LIED!

    Gee! I thought liberals were supposed to be the purveyors of truth and justice. We all remember how Democrats accused Republicans, President Bush, and his administration of fostering a "culture of corruption" and how every second sentence out of the mouths of Democrats is that, "Bush is a liar!" But here you are, as someone who I have no doubt railed against Bush and called him a liar, who continues to support Barack Obama, who has finally been officially designated as a bonafide LIAR. And a bold-faced and unashamed one at that, who literally conned the American people in order to obtain support for his socialist experiment called ObamaCare.

    In my opinion, like most liberals--Mary--you are a hypocrite!

    The question is, how much longer will you support ObamaCare lies and our LIAR of a President?!
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