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  • #11
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    "Hoeber and her fellow Liberal Gun Club members share with it a certain disdain for gun control. Describing such legislative efforts as a "placebo," they say the anti-gun crowd displays a "faith-driven" politics similar to many pro-lifers."

    She gets it!
  • #36
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    "...the National Rifle Association doesn't speak for all gun owners. Apart from its interpretation of the Second Amendment, it's a "reactionary" force in society with too much cultural baggage to do anything positive for an isolated but proud portion of Americans: progressives with pistols."

    But do you get it?
  • #2
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    First let me say that I own guns (several rifles, pistols and a shot gun). My feeling about the NRA is that it goes way too far. It seems it's primary goal is not to educate, but to scare. In this way, I feel it has changed direction. I just can't support their political agenda.
  • #30
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    Fear drives gun sales. Their main donors are gun manufacturers. It's not hard to see why they do what they do... but don't tell NRA members that ;)
  • #31
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    The Nra Is nothing more than a marketing firm where domestic sales are concerned

    The NRA has lobbied congress far more often to protect illegal sales than they ever have legal ones
  • #52
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    Scare the NRA didn't have to do anything but force Obama out into the open, he is the greatist gun salesman that is alive currently.
  • #59
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    Whatever you think of the NRA's political arm, the ILA, it's the NRA Foundation that has tens of thousands of NRA basic firearm instructors out there teaching real gun safety.
    The manufacturer support the NRA gets overwhelmingly goes to the Foundation's tax-exempt programs. The ILA's legislative programs are membership and individual donation funded.
    The gun industry's group is the National Shooting Sports Foundation.
    YMMV
  • #60
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    My feeling about the NRA is that it's not even about guns anymore so much as just near-automatic support for Republican candidates. After all, of the two major presidential candidates in 2012, the NRA backed the one who's actually signed an "assault weapon" ban into law.
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  • #1
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    Even liberals are starting to distrust the government. LOL. Her story rings so close to my own I'm just a teen and had once identified myself as a conservative(all the time denying i was gay). When i finally stopped denying it I was like dang, i don't agree with this Republicans on gay rights, but then i was like….F*&K I don't agree with them on a lot of things! One issue opened my eyes to a whole lot of others, so i left to become a libertarian. My point being don't stick with the two big parties, off shoots are good for almost any reason!!!
  • #7
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    If only the libertarian party was a major party.
    The only good thing I know about republicans is that they won't try to take my guns. But all we can do is spread the word to the people about the libertarian party. I think more people would join if they knew about it.
  • #51
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    @belinos Who says we're not a major party we've been nipping at the big dogs heels a long time. Right now we wonder if one party or the other will do something stupid enough to cause their party to fall. It's happened before, the question then is how will the remaining party deal with being the authoritarian party.
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  • #24
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    If only we could take the politics out of the words freedom & liberty I believe we might all be better off. If we all stop to think about it these are two of the most powerful and meaningful words in our constitution. The rub comes into play when we qualify who's freedoms and liberties are more important and when one side is forced to pay for that of which don't support. The right to own a gun or not is an individual choice as is women' choice vs right to life. When ever we try to force our will on unwilling people we can expect and deserve exactly what we get.
  • #12
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    Most liberals do distrust the government and are afraid to say so. Why? Because then they would have to admit to the world that they voted for the worst president in history, not once-but twice!
  • #13
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    I've met plenty liberals who have no problem admitting that they voted for a bad president. I don't see many people making that comparison with conservatives who don't like to admit Bush was a pretty terrible president. Also worst president in History? Not Bush, or Nixon, or Millard Fillmore, or Warren Harding, or Andrew Johnson?
  • #29
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    Nothing new about liberals mistrusting the government. Since the late 60's and probably before that. It's not like the Tea Party invented the concept.
  • #35
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    @Ironicguy Bush's first four were not that bad. His last four were embarrassing. The old timers never affected me. Nixon lied in a cover up same as Obama, and he did it on one subject. Obama has lied so many times we have lost count. Check this out.
    http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies
  • #37
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    @Ironicguy excellent point. It's near impossible to get conservatives to admit that Bush43 was woefully incompetent in his prosecution of OIF.
  • #42
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    @MadAmerican Fair point, you could argue his first 4 weren't nearly as bad as the last 4. Nixon.... Obama rigged his election, but he did his the legal way. By lying and misinforming the public, Nixon actually broke into DNC headquarters. To be fair Obama doesn't need to break in he has the NSA, but it's the principle. I wouldn't even say Nixon was a terrible president, he was just a crook. The Obama lies don't surprise me, 5 years later still waiting on that change I've heard so much about. Check this one out.
    http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barac...
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  • #10
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    Many gun owners have issues with the NRA. That's why we have the GOA, 2nd Amendment Foundation, and a host of others, including state organizations, which in my view are most important, because we can change things as the local and state levels much more easily. I am a member of one of the best, and recommend the free email alert highly.

    http://vcdl.org/
  • #17
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    It's a bunch of Liberal Gun owners who want to justify their existence by expressing hatred for other gun owners. ROTFLMAOTIP. The NRA is nothing more than 5,000,000 Americans who belong to it. There are also the Gun Owners of America, the National Shooting Sports Foundation, Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, and LOTS of other 2nd Amendment Advocacy Organizations. These folks want to demonize all gun owners by demonizing the NRA. They apparently don't know it was the NRA that lobbied and got laws passed barring firearms ownership by convicting felons and the insane; or that provides training for POLICE TRAINERS so they can in turn train rookie officers. I wouldn't doubt of this Liberal Gun Club secretly wants to make gun ownership only available to other card-carrying Liberals and no one else. That's where they and OTHER 2nd Amendment Advocacy groups differ. NONE of the current gun advocacy group wants to ban firearms ownership to anyone but convicted felons or the Court-declared dangers to themselves and others, in accordance with Due Process and the 2nd Amendment. I wonder what makes these folks tick. I am a member of the NRA AND JPFO, and have never read anything about a Kenyan Muslim Society in any NRA or JPFO material; nor anything asking what your gender preference or asking what your gender is, lol. They do ask if you're a student, or over a certain age, or military, veteran, etc. because they want you to take advantage of their DISCOUNTS to people in those categories. Otherwise, they could care a rat's furry behind about your political affiliation, gender preference, nationality, national origin, color, race, ethnicity, etc. Every political group has its bigots. Don't you dare tell me there are no bigots among Liberals. I know better. I lived up to my tuches in them in Forest Hills, NY for 9 years. They were my teachers, and my neighbors. In no other part of the country have I been asked about my NATIONALITY/ETHNICITY as I have been by Liberals who were puzzled by my last name. As far as I'm concerned this is a GROUP OF LIBERAL BIGOTS that like guns. They only differ in what sorts of biases they have and engage in racial name-calling if your race/cultural group/ethnicity/national origin isn't in line with Liberal thought. The problem with Liberals is they BRAND YOU by a single issue. They don't care if you DON'T OPPOSE abortion or gay rights, if you show support for the 2nd Amendment, well then you must be a knuckle-dragging inbred male chauvinist, bigoted, religious zealot by golly! You see that ALL THE TIME on Politix, lol.
  • #18
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    typos: "....barring firearms ownership by CONVICTED felons and the insane" "I wouldn't doubt IF this Liberal Gun Club wants to make gun ownership only available to other..."
  • #40
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    "...Kenyan Muslim Society in any NRA or JPFO material."

    She's talking about the idle chit-chat that occurs at most, if not all, gun ranges. I tend to agree with her. It's be nice to go to a gun range where I don't have to hear the most incredible paranoid fantasies verbalized. It'd be nice to know my hard earned dollars aren't supporting people who believe the 2nd Amendment is license to carry any manner of firearm, at anytime, and for any purpose.
  • #49
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    @PauldenZangpo You know, the section of Albuquerque is heavily Republican. We just defeated an anti-abortion measure. We have a Republican Mayor and a Republican Governor. I don't oppose abortion or gay rights but I am very 'bullish' on the 2nd amendment. I tell you the truth when I tell you that NONE of the people I know, and some of them are die hard Christian Republicans, have ever muttered anything about President Obama being 'Kenyan' or 'Muslim'. We all dislike his ABUSE of Executive Orders, and his apparently dislike of firearms in private hands and backing of MORE USELESS LAWS, but that's just disliking his politics. I respect the man and everyone I know does too. We dislike his politics, but respect his Office. Just like in the military. Your CO could be the biggest turd that ever lived, but his rank commanded respect. I don't demonize anyone, but I strongly resent and will fight every attempt by anyone to deprive anyone else of their rights- from what goes on in NYC streets against Blacks and Hispanics to the idiots passing useless laws in New York State, Colorado and Connecticut. The main gun problem in the USA is GANGS DUELING FOR DRUG TURF. That's 80% of the battle and casualties (8,900 dead per year). If we could VAPORIZE all those idiots who are killing each other over drugs, with the remaining 2,201 gun homicides, which INCLUDE justifiable gun homicides, mind you, we'd have a gun homicide rate lower than England's, Canada's, Australia's, New Zealand's, Spain's and just 1 tenth of 1 percent higher than Japan's. We've got MORE GUNS per capita than ANY nation in the world, and we are 85th in the gun homicide rate THANKS TO THOSE VERMIN DRUG DEALERS in the inner cities. The Powers-That-Be refuse to do anything about that, and instead make believe that the TRAGIC ISOLATED TRAGEDIES we've experienced, which average to about 35 per year (USDoJ, National Institute of Justice, 4 January 2013, Greg Ridgeway, PhD, Page 1 "Summary of Select Firearm Violence Prevention Strategies" because people like Senator Dianne Feinstein, Senator Chuck Schumer, Senator Barbara Boxer, Governor Cuomo, Governor Malloy, Govern Hickenlooper are somehow convinced that roughly 35 WHITE KIDS KILLED ANNUALLY ARE VASTLY MORE ALARMING THAT 8,900 MEN OF COLOR MURDERING ONE ANOTHER EACH YEAR. Capitals used for emphasis. That screams of racism to me, racism by the Left Wing Liberal powers-that-be and SHEER STUPIDITY in blaming the 110,000,000 law-abiding gun owners, both for the acts of a few deranged homicidal maniacs who weren't even gun owners, but who had to buy guns at the last minute or MURDER someone to get their firearms and then engaged in their murderous frenzy, and for the acts of inner-city drug-dealing gangs who are already in violation of multitudes of laws when they kill one another. The 2nd Amendment state quite clearly the right to bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED. Politicians have been allowed to do it little by little because we live in a nation more concerned with the good life than with rights. Once our quality of life goes down even more, people will be a LOT MORE TOUCHY about their rights since they won't be able to escape our harsh realities with toys, travel, time off, and comfortable homes. Wait and see. People can ALREADY own pretty much what they want. They need to let BATFE run a check on them, pay $200 for the privilege of owning a bazooka, a machine gun, explosives, etc. and surrender their 4th amendment rights and allow the BATFE to come into their homes ANY TIME of day or night 24/7/365. It's not the law abiding gun owner you have to worry about. It's that damned criminal that can't be stopped or bothered with stupid laws, lol. Capitals used for emphasis.
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  • #25
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    pretty cool! great to see a emerging group that can have opinions on both sides of the isle!
  • #5
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    I do agree that the NRA needs to incorporate the gay community into the NRA, they are people and deserve a voice in the NRA in favor of owning guns. Their sexual preferences have nothing to do with gun ownership. All conservatives need to move more to the center and stop being right wing totally.
  • #14
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    Since when does the NRA not accept gay members? This is the problem with liberal America. Every damn group has to feel "special". So damn immature! On the application form for membership in the NRA it doesn't ask if you are gay, black, employed, etc. If it wasn't for the NRA we wouldn't have a second amendment. No organization is perfect and I do not agree with some of the things they did but bashing them without proof of discrimination is a bunch of horse shit.
  • #15
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    @MadAmerican
    I'm not gay, but have seen several senior NRA officials speak out against the gay community, one reason they have their own gun club in parts of the country. I am a past member of the NRA, just cannot go along with many things they seem to support.
  • #62
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    The NRA doesn't give a shite what you do privately. These 'lions" are idiots. They keep voting democrat, they will lose there guns. The socialist party IS NOT going to listen to them. Their numbers are to small, they are outnumbered 20 to 1 by left it's who think they shouldn't have guns.
  • #63
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    @MadAmerican notice how it starts out as "limited" information? This is always how it starts, "limited." Like all gum end intrusion, it will only expand. HIPPA and the constitution mean nothing to these control freak libs.
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  • #110
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    Seems these people are misinformed about the NRA. The NRA and its millions of members don't fight for or against any other issue than gun control. If it is not gun related, they don't care. They are non-partisan, and never even bring up things like gays. This is just more socialist propaganda.
  • #90
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    this is a joke debate right because if its not it should be now to the lib gun club we can't back the bad nra there one of the only lobbying org that will protect ALL of our rights to own guns just because thy dont have the same political stance as u thats why u bad mouth them thats so stupid get with it everyone dont think like a lot of people but if we dont stay together on this one we wont have any gun rights i dont care if your right left or center gay straight trans whatever on these things we all have to be together on the first, second and fourth
  • #76
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    I am against any regulation of weapons. I am the best person to decide what is right for me in any situation. Some legislature is not. The government is the problem.
  • #81
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    Imho, there's not enough regulation of firearms, which is why they're way too accessible here in the United States, and why it's so easy for unstable people with mental health, substance abuse and anger-management issues to get access to them.

    The fact that we're such a gun-happy, gun-dependent society and culture is also because there's not enough regulation of firearms, and why there's such a high murder rate per capita by firearms (especially handguns) here in the United States, as well, especially in many of our very poorest urban areas.
  • #83
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    There is no need for regulation, but there is a need for training. People especially poor people need to be armed and trained. The training is what has been lost.
  • #74
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    I wonder if any of those 'bad guy' bikers belong to this club too? I'd think they fit right in with each other.
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